Why is it that giving money to the poor...

[benevolent dictator]

Why is it that giving money to the poor decreases their incentive to work and get decent jobs, while giving money to the rich increases their incentive to work and create decent jobs.

Just wondering...

[dolo amber]

1. Well clearly it's because

the poor are poor due to their own laziness, whereas the rich are rich due to their own resourcefulness.

Someone's let their National Review subscription lapse... :eyes:

[d_b]

3. Hahaha.

You read that too, eh?

[chicagojoe]

2. That's nothing but B.S.

I'm pretty certain that poor folks would much rather make a good enough living on their own. That whole idea of "trickle-down economics" is a crock of shit. People don't go out and create jobs because they got a big tax break. They think they have that coming.

[benevolent dictator]

4. I know, I'm a total advocate of

the full time employment should equal livable income thing. But I have actually met people who think that giving the poor money makes them less likely to work. I don't understand how, since most people don't like to live off charity and those that do, hell, I say give it to them.

I'm not talking about letting every welfare mom go out and drive a jaguar and have a big flat screen t.v. or anything (as I've been accused of) I just think everyone should be guaranteed enough to eat and a roof over their heads.

I also think everyone who is willing to work full time should make enough to live on. Granted a lot of people think it takes way more to live on than it usually really does if you budget, but still it's just embarassing to have full time workers working for large corporations *coughwalmartcough* who can't afford to feed their families without food stamps. I just don't understand the argument that people working full time don't deserve enough to live on...

[chicagojoe]

9. The main problem in this is the ridiculously low minimum wage.

Less than $8-$10 per hour is NOT a living wage. Period. Sure, one could survive on that; I've survived on less as have too many others. My son has a job at the college he attends which is entry level, low skill, and he started @ $9.25 per hour. That's at a school, which I'm sure has more financial trouble than a big business would. I think that the business sector in America has to get involved in re-structuring how our people get paid. For example, I can understand how a micro-business, such as an independent hot dog stand owner cannot afford to pay a guy $10.00 per hr., and no one is forced to work for the kind of wage that the hot dog man can pay. But, I'm sure a teenager would love to have that job. Sadly, though, many adults NEED those jobs to feed their families. There has to be a way to help that guy get around a high minimum wage, in a reasonable way. However, we all know DAMN WELL that a large chains such as Walmart, or McDonalds, et al., can pay a whole lot better.
What I propose is this: An age point at which the minimum wage increases. A 16 year old HS student, for example, who has a job at "The BigBox Store" after school SHOULD only be making $5-$6/hr.
The full time employee at the same store, who puts more of his time and effort into that place than the HS kid should be paid beginning at a higher minimum wage.
I also propose a re-visiting of gov't. public works projects. Two big objectives could be met. Many people gain employment, and overhead could be kept down. Put Americans To Work Designing, Planning, Building and Maintaining America! If, after anyone who wants these types of jobs has been hired, the gov't. still needs private contractors, so be it.
And to all of those who fear collectivism, you and I both know that will never happen here. Americans will just not go for that ideology.

[adamd]

10. that depends on where you live

Cost of living is vastly different in different parts of the country. In the middle of midwest, for example, in smaller cities, $8-10 is certainly liveable. But in larger cities, you're correct. That doesn't cut it. In live in the suburbs of Dallas, and there's no way I could support myself on $8 or even $10/hr without moving into some rough neighborhoods and barely be able to eat. And if I had a family to support as well, I would have to work 2 or 3 jobs. And I don't think that constitutes a "liveable" wage...not when CEOs make hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars annually.

[LuckyLib]

21. $8-10 per hour is barely liveable anywhere, I don't care how

small the town. Especially if you have children.

[benevolent dictator]

11. A few problems I see

if you make an "age based" minimum wage, then corporations will just go out of their way to hire as many teenagers as possible, why hire that college grade when you can hire two 16 year olds for the same price?

Having a location-based minimum wage is closer, but it still seems like it would drive businesses out of cities and more expensive areas. (Wal-Mart already likes to build on the edges of towns for lower land costs).

I was thinking maybe something where it has to be proportional to the amount the CEO makes, like it must be X number of dollars or at least 5% of what the CEO makes, whichever is higher. So the CEOs who make a few million each year would have to pay their employees at least $100,000 per year. Hmm... I like that idea... hehe. I don't know, it's just a thought.

Another thing I was thinking about recently were mandatory wage increases, because I hear all the time about how "well if those people could just hold down a job for two or three years they'd be making a living wage anyway!" Funny how these people never seem to agree with my next idea, but that people are required to get a raise of so much per hour until they are making a living wage. This would only work in places where you have to justify firing people though, I guess.

[Erika]

5. Christ told us to take care of the poor and needy

He didn't tell us to give unto the rich.

[SheilaT]

6. Some years back

I heard an interview with Mike Royko who said he always gave money to people who asked him, because he felt that if someone was so desperate as to ask total strangers for money, then they must have needed it badly. That comment completely changed how I view beggars. Oh, yes, I know there are some who are complete scammers (I know of several in my own community), but I'm much more likely to give money to those who ask me. Especially if the person seems homeless or particularly down on his/her luck.

I have never been homeless. When I was growing up we were quite poor. I had dental work through a charity clinic. We often went hungry. But as an adult, I really do have everything I need, and nearly everything I want. I am more fortunate than I probably know.

Giving to the poor does not decrease their incentive to work, I'm now convinced. It's the very rich, who don't need to work who have no idea what labor is really like.

[undergroundpanther]

7. When I was a teen

I got stranded and I didn't have bus fare to get home.
So I panhandled it. Because of strangers generosity I got home.I wasn't needy or poor.I was in a bad situation.And people cared.

I have been stranded waiting for a cab that never came,in cold rain..I had money but no ride.I called the cab company like 6 times..Where is the CAB!!
Kind strangers picked me up, they said they drove past me several times..They drove me to my doctor.
And I will always be thankful to them,

I have picked up hitchhikers when there is more than one person in the car.One guy had been walking 3 miles cause his car died in 99 degree Maryland heat and humidity and he needed help and to call his son and I had no cell then.I gave him an extra bottle of cold water I had and he nearly cried.

You never know..

But simple generosity and compassion it can change everything.
and If you let yourself get scared of every possible threat,and you never help, you never live and you never reach out the world is made more cold..

[SheilaT]

8. Yep, you've got it.

There but for the grace of God, is what we should all be seeing to ourselves much of the time.

[gorbal]

19. I loved your post

Every time I see someone in need, I remember a time when I needed help. My guess is many haven't ever been in need and don't understand how life can be so hard for others when it is so easy for them.

I have even brought strangers to stay at my home when I was living alone. Many people were shocked at me, a girl alone doing this, but I say it's a much scarier world if people don't help each other.

[gorbal]

23. I like what you said

It irks me how cold people can be. You know they don't really want to be, their are just "stuck" and can't find the strength in them to reach out to others.

[Bluerthanblue]

13. you speak such truth

with much grace- i have VERY little in the 'US's 'eyes' but i feel incredibly rich- having lived life on the edge for so long- deciding between toilet paper, or a box of macaroni and cheese for example- but when i see how MUCH we have in comparison to others- (the Afgani's who were reduced to eating grass) i can find nothing to 'whine' about-

i've often given money to anyone standing with a sign in traffic- it's never much, (i wish it were) and i always tell the person that- my kids used to get SO embarrassed when i would do that, but i say "if you had to stand out at the mercy of 'others' in order to survive, i sure hope folks would give you whatever they could"- what they do with the money is up to them- it's a 'gift' not a commitment or a 'loan'-

We have WAY too much in America- and there is no 'good' excuse for that- i read that the money spent on FERTILIZER for the golf courses in the US, could feed every person in the world for a year-

kind of sad-

[LuckyLib]

22. Latin America has no infrastructure to deal with poverty.

The poor work AND beg. And people who do have jobs always carry money on themselves to give, and in their cars to give should someone approach them. It's "alms for the poor." It's part of life, and you are expected to share what you have with those less fortunate. No judging, no second guessing, no anger over the individual who is begging. It is (unfortunately) considered part of life.

[Megahurtz]

12. OMG!!!

:spray:

[stevebreeze]

14. I once had a fellow worker yell at me about this.

We were standing in the middle of a $million + house (needless to say taxpayer subsidized through deductibility) and he wants to know why all his tax money goes to subsidizing the poor.

[Sugarbleus]

15. Geez, talk about "Bubble Boy"

Some wealthy and/or conservative sorts seem to have encased themselves in such a thick comfort bubble as to be completely OUT OF TOUCH with reality!!

Whadda country!

[benevolent dictator]

16. Oh man, my friend read that and said, "I'm glad you've finally come around

that's so true."

I was appalled. She took that statement as a serious comment, not an ironic one. Then I remembered why I stopped talking to her that often, she's a Republican at heart.

[shrike]

17. My husband worries about scammers

so he offers to buy panhandlers coffee or something to eat in lieu of cash. They usually take him up on it. Once, a woman told him to buy coffee for himself, too, because she had a pie and would share it with him. The local food pantry was giving away whole pies for Thanksgiving. So he had coffee and pie with her.

[Sugarbleus]

18. I can't resist posting this...copied it from another DUer some time ago.

underwear goes inside the pants...ya gotta read this!

Edited on Fri Nov-26-04 05:48 PM by ElsewheresDaughter

Why is marijuana not legal? Why is marijuana not legal?
It’s a natural plant that grows in the dirt.
Do you know what’s not natural?
80 year old dudes with hard-ons. That’s not natural.
But we got pills for that.
We’re dedicating all our medical resources to keeping the old guys erect,
but we’re putting people in jail for something that grows in the dirt?

You know we have more prescription drugs now.
Every commercial that comes on TV is a prescription drug ad.
I can’t watch TV for four minutes without thinking I have five serious diseases.
Like: “Do you ever wake up tired in the morning?”
Oh my god I have this, write this down. Whatever it is, I have it.
Half the time I don’t even know what the commercial is…
people running in fields or flying kites or swimming in the ocean.
I’m like that is the greatest disease ever. How do you get that?
That disease comes with a hot chick and a puppy.

The schools now… It is all about self-esteem in the schools now.
Build the kids’ self-esteem, make them feel good about themselves.
If everybody grows up with high self-esteem, who is going to dance in our strip clubs?
What’s going to happen to our porno industry?
These women don’t just grown on trees.
It takes lots of drunk daddys missing dance recitals before you decide to blow a goat on the internet for fifty bucks.
And if that disappears, where does that leave me on a Friday night with my new high speed connection?

Masterminds are another word that comes up all the time.
You keep hearing about these terrorists masterminds that get killed in the middle east.
Terrorists masterminds.
Mastermind is sort of a lofty way to describe what these guys do, don’t you think?
They’re not masterminds.
“OK, you take bomb, right? And you put in your backpack. And you get on bus and you blow yourself up. Alright?”
“Why do I have to blow myself up? Why can’t I just…”
“Who’s the fucking mastermind here? Me or you?”

Americans, let’s face it: We’ve been a spoiled country for a long time.
Do you know what the number one health risk in America is?
Obesity. They say we’re in the middle of an obesity epidemic.
An epidemic like it is polio. Like we’ll be telling our grand kids about it one day.
The Great Obesity Epidemic of 2004.
“How’d you get through it grandpa?”
“Oh, it was horrible Johnny, there was cheesecake and pork chops everywhere.”

Nobody knows why were getting fatter? Look at our lifestyle.
I’ll sit at a drive thru.
I’ll sit there behind fifteen other cars instead of getting up to make the eight foot walk to the totally empty counter.
Everything is mega meal, super sized. Want biggie fries, super sized, want to go large.
You want to have thirty burgers for a nickel you fat mother fucker. There’s room in the back. Take it!
Want a 55 gallon drum of Coke with that? It’s only three more cents.

Sometimes you have to suffer a little bit in your youth to motivate yourself to succeed in later life.
Do you think if Bill Gates got laid in high school, do you think there’d be a Microsoft?
Of course not.
You got to spend a long time in your own locker with your underwear shoved up your ass before you start to think,
“You’ll see. I’m going to take of the world of computers! I’ll show them.”
.........(the section below really says it all for me)

We’re in one of the richest countries in the world,
but the minimum wage is lower than it was thirty five years ago.
There are homeless people everywhere.
This homeless guy asked me for money the other day.
I was about to give it to him and then I thought he was going to use it on drugs or alcohol.
And then I thought, that’s what I’m going to use it on.
Why am I judging this poor bastard.
People love to judge homeless guys. Like if you give them money they’re just going to waste it.
Well, he lives in a box, what do you want him to do? Save it up and buy a wall unit?
Take a little run to the store for a throw rug and a CD rack? He’s homeless.
I walked behind this guy the other day.
A homeless guy asked him for money.
He looks right at the homeless guy and says why don’t you go get a job you bum.
People always say that to homeless guys like it is so easy.
This homeless guy was wearing his underwear outside his pants.
Outside his pants. I’m guessing his resume isn’t all up to date.
I’m predicting some problems during the interview process.
I’m pretty sure even McDonalds has a “underwear goes inside the pants” policy.
Not that they enforce it really strictly, but technically I’m sure it is on the books.


When human beings hit the bottom for whatever reason, it's highly unlikey they will ever reach the poverty line even. They are so far down they can play handball with the curb. I won't give to people who are hostile or very young (young ones still have a chance to make it)but I give according to that person's apparent pitiful condition urged on via that small voice that tells me to GIVE UNCONDITIONALLY. There but for pure luck, go I. It IS a WONDERFUL thing that people do take the time to actually have a conversation with the homeless and beggars. It humanizes them and humanizes and informs us.

Peace~~~

[RaleighNCDUer]

20. That is a great piece.

It shames me. The other morning as I was walking to work, late for work, a guy asks me if I have a nickle. I, truthfully, say I have no change. But I did have a dollar in my wallet.

I am ashamed.