Is Second Ammendment Obsolete?

[RLS21]

The second ammendment begins with the premise that since a well regulated militia is necessary for a state to protect its freedom then citizens should have a right to bear arms.

But today states don't even have militias, the protection of freedom falls to the federal level and state issues are resolved with Governors requesting the assistance of the National Guard (federal Military).

If the need for state militias is obsolete then wouldn't the need for citizens to bear arms follow suit.

It seems to me the whole second ammendment needs rewritten.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

1. ~

:popcorn:

[Taverner]

2. Take this over to the guns forum

I'm sure there will be a million on either side who will bite

As for me, I don't own a gun, and I don't want to

But I don't think they should be banned - in fact I think we should rescind some gun laws

[ingac70]

3. Wrong. n/t

[Vincardog]

4. the 2A gives the PEOPLE the right not the militia.

[wogget]

5. The 2nd amendment language is Obtuse

leading each person to read what they want into it, but the chance of getting the consensus needed for a constitutional amendment at this point seems unlikely.

For me though, I have no guns or interest in them, but tend to think that in a pluralistic society we need to avoid regulating people except when necessary. Politically, gun control is a LOSER for Democrats driving people who should be economically democratic-leaning into the Republican party.

[Warpy]

8. It is very obtuse, obviously thrown in there by frontiersmen

The country was a very different place back then and it's probably time to rewrite it.

Please don't ASSume I'm antigun. I won't own one, but I live in bear and cougar country. People who live out of town need them.

[virginia mountainman]

6. Careful..

If we can declare the 2nd Amendment obsolete...

if we validate the obsolete argument, we should not complain when the rest of the amendments, are "declared obsolete".

[elocs]

7. You'll not find many who can quote the entire 2nd Amendment,

especially gun advocates other than the clause they like. That being said, I don't think the 2nd Amendment should be changed, especially since it is working so well in this country compared to other western democracies. Yes, happiness is a warm gun--better than sex.

[RLS21]

9. How is it working well compared to other democracies?

Places like Canada, Great Britain, Australia, New Zealand, etc... don't have their citizens killing their fellow citizens in the quantities that the U.S. does.

[TellTheTruth82]

12. let's be careful here

Is the killing due to the owning legal handguns, or due to something else?

[WA98070]

10. Actually, the Second Ammendment should be used to De-federalize the National Guard.

The National Guard is being abused by this administration.

[Callisto32]

15. State militaries

Actually, the Second Amendment should be used to De-federalize the National Guard.
Posted by WA98070


The National Guard is being abused by this administration.

Agreed, each state should have their own military force (and their own posse comitatus acts) that are in no way beholden to the federal government and limited by charter to purely defensive actions, able to be activated only in the face of foreign invasion, ideally.

However, the world militia has several different meanings and thus can cause some problems.

From the American Heritage Dictionary:

mi·li·tia
n.

1. An army composed of ordinary citizens rather than professional soldiers.
2. A military force that is not part of a regular army and is subject to call for service in an emergency.
3. The whole body of physically fit civilians eligible by law for military service.

Websters Revised:

1. In the widest sense, the whole military force of a nation, including both those engaged in military service as a business, and those competent and available for such service; specifically, the body of citizens enrolled for military instruction and discipline, but not subject to be called into actual service except in emergencies.


and finally, the venerable Dictionary.com


1. a body of citizens enrolled for military service, and called out periodically for drill but serving full time only in emergencies.
2. a body of citizen soldiers as distinguished from professional soldiers.
3. all able-bodied males considered by law eligible for military service.
4. a body of citizens organized in a paramilitary group and typically regarding themselves as defenders of individual rights against the presumed interference of the federal government.

As you can see, this can quickly deteriorate into a game of semantics.

The easy way out seems to be that the amendment protects the rights of both the literal "militia" and the citizenry acting as a "militia" due to the bit about "the right of the people" and given that "the people" nowhere else is interpreted as a collective right. Unfortunately, this interpretation is unlikely to win many supporters.

My question is this: Can something be obsolete, before we are even sure how it works in the first place?

[iiibbb]

11. If it's obsolete just amend the constitution... simple as that.

It isn't obsolete enough for the supreme court though.

[Vet31203]

13. Well

Try living in Iowa! The Republicans here are taking away all our civil liberties

[OKthatsIT]

17. Republicans are hoping the Country divides into regions

ruled by their very own feudal lords. Like Mexico.

They might just get what they want, too. It's a matter of who has the money to hire the Privatized Mercs.

How could I be so bold...well it's like this. I see a Bush Administration getting away with crime because the DOJ & AG refuse to comply to the law. Even when Congress demands it. That tells me this country has lost it's mind, entirely.

Under-educated zombies are everywhere.

[jody]

14. The Second Amendment is primarily about self-defense and secondarily about defense of state. The

issue will be resolved by SCOTUS which heard D.C. v. Heller on 18 March 2008 and will release its opinion in June.

The odds are that SCOTUS will say the 2nd is for individual RKBA for self-defense,

[platosrepublic]

16. I disagree with the premise of your argument

I personally don’t own a gun, nor do I feel that I will ever own one; however I think it is important the citizens have the right to bear arms.

If you look through out recent history, when ever a government was ready to slip into fascism the first thing they do is ban citizens from gun ownership.