Why should we have to live in fear of our government?

[SongOfTheRayne]

Why should we have to wonder whether we're being watched? Why should we not be able to live our day-to-day lives knowing that we won't be arrested without charges? Why should our government be allowed to fight terrorism by doing the very things that they- in an attempt to horrify us and make us hate the 'enemy'- say that the terrorists were doing to American hostages? Why should WE serve THEM when they are supposed to be the ones serving us? Why should we have our freedoms 'protected' only by a total lack of freedom? Where is the justice in this? Why should we tolerate this?

[villager]

1. "People shouldn't be afraid of their governments....

...Governments should be afraid of their people." The great tagline from the upcoming film V for Vendetta....

[SongOfTheRayne]

3. I want to see that.....

It looks interesting. We're really not trying that hard to make them fear us, are we?

[villager]

7. they don't fear "the people" at all -- they've got TV & elections

...all sewn up...

[Untermonkey]

27. I agree.

The problems start when governments no longer fear the people.

[PerceptionManagement]

2. because they have more ammunition.

[SongOfTheRayne]

6. No....it just seems that way. We are held in place primarilly by

our own laziness. If ALL people were to rise and demand change, we need not be superior in combat or have elaborate plans or much firepower. If the great energy of the masses could be harnessed and the sedentary crowds of people would RISE and just DEMAND, our power would be so great that the government could crumble, would be effortlessly thrown from power like a fly from a horse.

[RaleighNCDUer]

10. Not so much laziness, I think, than disbelief.

Most people, even here, do not believe that we are teetering on the brink of fascism. They think we can change things at the next election; that all we have to do is get our voices heard.

By the time it is apparent to the man in the street, it will be too late.

[NMMNG]

20. "If there was hope, it must lie in the proles

because only there in those swarming disregarded masses, 85 per cent of the population of Oceania, could the force to destroy the Party ever be generated. The Party could not be overthrown from within. Its enemies, if it had any enemies, had no way of coming together or even of identifying one another. Even if the legendary Brotherhood existed, as just possibly it might, it was inconceivable that its members could ever assemble in larger numbers than twos and threes. Rebellion meant a look in the eyes, an inflexion of the voice, at the most, an occasional whispered word. But the proles, if only they could somehow become conscious of their own strength would have no need to conspire. They needed only to rise up and shake themselves like a horse shaking off flies. If they chose they could blow the Party to pieces tomorrow morning. Surely sooner or later it must occur to them to do it ? And yet - !"


George Orwell, 1984 pg. 60

[SongOfTheRayne]

21. so basically we've just allowed ourselves to become 'proles'...SUBJECTS

People have so much unrealized strength...compared to the might of the people, the government is so incredibly WEAK...but people don't realize that.
Isn't it disturbing, how much is coming true? Surveilance, war for peace=war is peace, etc, etc, even vaporizations have begun....what has happened to human rights?

[NMMNG]

22. The fascists came into power.

They started slowly, chipping away at human rights piecemeal . When they saw that their deeds went contested by some and supported by others they decided to get bolder. They did their deeds openly without concern for the reproach of dissenters, whom they now saw as too few and virtually powerless to stop them. Now that they realize they are on a sinking ship, being deserted by even their own, they have dispensed with boxing gloves and are using the bazookas. They figure they will destroy everything they can before they are taken out of power.


I think new rules need to be implemented for the government. Tell them we aren't going to put up with them running amok like that. Remind them that they are, after all, working for us, not ruling us. This is a democratic republic, not a Kingdom, after all.

[SongOfTheRayne]

23. We already had those rules...they were called the Bill of Rights.

But we haven't really been able to protect them, have we?

[NMMNG]

25. Not really

And government officials need a real comeuppance. :grr:

[SongOfTheRayne]

26. Hmmm....I'm envisioning something involving

power failures, fireworks, loud music, fire, and rotten tunafish...

[Copperred]

4. FEAR....time to put the fear back where it belongs.

Exactly.

We have today a populus who is in fear of its government. Where are the politicians to speak on this!!!

What type of country r we!!!!!!!

[napi21]

5. We shouldn't of course! But don't tell ME to be afraid on my gov't!

I'm NOT! Sure, they can come get me, probably for bashing Shrub! I will rely on my friends at DU to make it public! NOBODY and NO GOV'T is going to make ME ilive my life in fear!

I obey the laws, can't drive any more so I don't even speed!

Bring them on!

[SongOfTheRayne]

19. It's great that you're fighting back and everything. As soon as i'm out of

college i'm going to join Amnesty International. But really...this sh.it is f.ucking terrifying! Global warming, more storms, rising oceans, surveilance, dissapearing prisoners, prison conditions that cause people to go insane, arrests without trials, war, war, and more war...death, growing secrecy, a draining away of our constitutional rights, Geneva Convention violations that aren't even being denied any more...

[iamahaingttta]

8. Personally, I'm not the least bit afraid...

...of the pussies running our government, and I tell them to fuck themselves every opportunity I get.

Like right now!

[SongOfTheRayne]

24. you tell them to.....yeah, so do i. i'm going to a protest march next week

also planning on distributing subversive pamphlets/newspapers, am signing petitions, going to join Amnesty international as soon as i'm out of college...

still fu.cking terrified of these people, though. imprisonment without trials, execution without charges...so we start to slide. terrorists. terror suspects. those suspected of having ties with terrorists. then 'sympathisers', then subversive journalists, then those in posession of subversive newspapers...goodbye, democracy. and if you think of all the human rights issues...man. I don't see how you're not scared. Good for you.

[izzie]

9. With the India deal we should be watching Bush.

Is the man mad? Seems to me since '45 we have been trying to get hold of this stuff and now Bush is going to help a country next door to another country that hates each other with the bomb. Oh well we can see how our military stuff works when they both go at it with each other. Good move George. Maybe Carl is behind it? Makes checking on my phone calls mild. Looks like we had better get Bush away from his home, air force one. We can not tell where he will go next and what hell he will make. Is it Pigpen on Snoopy that leaves a trail of dirt every place he goes? We seem to have our own.

[Mnemosyne]

11. Several quotes, though I couldn't find the one I was looking for:

The first speaks for itself. It IS our duty!

"All experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security." : The Declaration of Independence (1776)

Actually, the second speaks for itself, not so much fear by most fans of *, but survival. The rest of us are trying to survive and fight!

"It is also in the interests of a tyrant to keep his people poor, so that they may not be able to afford the cost of protecting themselves by arms and be so occupied with their daily tasks that they have no time for rebellion."- Aristotle in Politics, J. Sinclair translation, pg. 226, 1962

The third, just because Mencken was so prophetic.

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." -- H.L.Mencken

Ah, found it!

Thomas Jefferson: "When citizens fear their government you have tyranny. When government fears its citizens you have freedom."

There it is in a nutshell.

Tyranny is US. Solidarity! :patriot:

:hi:

[SongOfTheRayne]

13. Hmmm...I think I'll start my own newspaper...seeing as all the other ones

have fallen into the Conservative stranglehold..

Now if only I had experience as a journalist....or asistance....or the means to get published.....or any of the other things needed to publish a newspaper...

[Mnemosyne]

16. Here are some people to possibly inspire you Song.

Sophie Scholl, Hans her brother, and a few others fought back and gave their lives to get the word out about the Nazis. While it is not yet as dangerous here, it very well could end up the way it did in Germany if word does not reach the people.

I print and stealth distribute information regularly in my area when the weather allows me to get out. Restrooms, shelves in libraries, stores, rest areas on the interstates, wherever I think the information will be noticed and possibly taken home and read.

Just an idea. There are many out there. Students especially need to be aware of the situation, it may get drafty soon, and if it doesn't the student aid and jobs will dry up so much some may end up in the military simply to survive. Education may help them save themselves from becoming victims of the military-industrial complex.

White Rose
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Rose

http://www.holocaust-history.org/short-essays/white-rose.shtml

Sophie Scholl
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERschollS.htm

Something another Duer, benburch , et al, are doing:
http://www.whiterosesociety.org/

:hi:

[SongOfTheRayne]

17. Thanks!

I heard a very interesting story once- I'm pretty sure it's true- about 3 boys in Syria who distributed an underground newspaper by prinking it in long, thin, pieces of paper, and hiding it in socks that they sold.

[Mnemosyne]

18. Necessity IS the mother of invention, and then you have Frank

Z and the Mothers! Well, we did until Frank left us anyway!lol

I would like to learn more of those Syrian boys. If you ever come across it again please let me know. Thanks!

[midnight]

12. As George Clooney says in Good Night and Good Luck......

"Some one is going to get Audited" If you don't remain silent.

[Daphne08]

14. We shouldn't. Not if we want to continue living in the country

our ancestors have left for us.

I'm worried about my children. I'm worried about everyone's kids and grandkids.

What kind of legacy are we leaving them?

The Founding Fathers would be appalled that Americans have become so complacent... that our Congress has become so complacent in regard to the civil liberties of the citizens of the United States.

[SongOfTheRayne]

15. Yeah.....somebody warned me about this a couple years ago....

that America was bordering on the edge of facism...Some guy in Cambridge when I went on vacation there was handing out pamphlets. I didn't believe it at the time. I believe it now. The thing that people need to realize is that there's no LINE that you cross at which you are no longer a free country- your freedoms just drain away.