About the 8 legislators that were informed about the NSA spying;

[splat@14]

Its bothered me a bunch about why those folks never blew the whistle on this. I don't mean they go public, there are probably other avenues they could use to take concerns over an illegal operation. Rockefeller wrote a letter to Cheney in 2003 expressing his discontent but apparently didn't followup with anything other than that.

This evening on the Leher report on PBS a congresswoman (D) from Arizona said that the briefing that took place back then for the 8 legislators only involved operation facets of the eavesdropping. No details were provided regarding the legal aspects of this.

In my limited, non-legal (I'm an engineer, not a lawyer) understanding of this then, it looks like the Bush administration pulled these people in, showed them the operation, and that was it. extensive speculation here, but I'm wondering if they were left with the impression it was legitimate by omitting any explanation of it? Would explain why some otherwise reasonable and intelligent people never thought to blow a whistle until the Times broke the story.

Anyone heard anything else or have an opinion?

Thx,
Splat

[Kagemusha]

1. They weren't told enough to be sure it was that unconstitutional.

Ignorance was bliss, and you can't go crying to the American people about ignorance, when the very fact you are doing so is grounds to forever remove your security clearance and subject you to sanctions from the House or Senate, whichever is the body concerned.

[The Backlash Cometh]

2. Dianne Feinstein's comments in regards to the Big 8:

"It's my view that the briefings of the big 8 essentially violate the law as well. I belive that's a second violation of law, because I believe that specifically say how the intelligence committee should be notified. ......The committee really wanted all sensitive intelligence reported in writing..... set up a mechanism for that.... all sensitive information outside of covert to be reported to the committee"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2446712&mesg_id=2446712

And somebody summed up what she meant over here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=362536&mesg_id=362536

[splat@14]

5. Agree. Doesn't seem to bode well for Rockefeller but I'm not about to

make his excuse. He's a US Senator and the post you cite is quite right, he's not helpless. Guess i'm just disappointed. This thing is a very large animal considering the time that has passed since its inception and all the participants that could have done something before now.

Thx!
Splat

[Lefty48197]

3. Somebody did blow the whistle on the spy program

How did that story break?

[splat@14]

4. Good point. Wonder where that will lead?

[Lefty48197]

6. I'm guessing: More Congressional oversight

If we Democrats play our cards right, we can help elect a much more responsible Congress, that will provide much more oversight to a President that badly needs adult supervision.
I guess there's sort of a Constitutional "Pendulum" that swings back and forth over time. Whenever we get a President like Bush Jr. or Richard Nixon, who abuse the Constitution, the response seems to be more Congressional oversight. At least, that's what I'm predicting.

[dubya_dubya_III]

7. USC 50 413 the Unconstitutional CIA Mafia Act prohibits all Oversight

The Cabal of Noble Secrecy (US House of Lords) requires the captive, sworn to total and absolute secrecy elite noble slave 'legislators' to simply sit in dumbfounded silence and absorb the lies the CIA Mafia crafts to defend whatever the Mafia fears the legislators may later hear of.

There is no oversight, no debate, no method of objection! Any such notion would be practically impossible to accomplish. The act is totally criminal illegal and unenforceable. It simply forces the Congress to continue rubber stamping whatever criminal illegal and immoral mafia activities the mafia cares to report, based on the enemies that only the mafia is allowed to manufacture in secret, continuing the unconstitutional illegal criminal blank check of Marque (universal blanket crime license) ad infinitum, in the name of National Insecurity.

Since long before we ran out of the Soviets, the CIA Mafia's mission has been to manufacture and maintain global National Insecurities at all costs (usually many hundreds of billion apiece)

Even if a legislator had a strong objection what would he do? The 'finding crime' has likely already been committed. He is bound not to reveal the 'finding crime' to anyone under any circumstance. He cannot thus even report the crime.

At most all these 'overseers' can do is admit they heard about it and it made them sick,
-- if it ever becomes public afterwards.....

The 'legislator' could not even ever attain the august position without CIA Mafia controlled military industrial campaign funding, as do most of those 'legislators' voting for the Annointed.

Our Constitution is toilet paper to these CIA Mafia Fascists

[splat@14]

8. Thanks W (never thought I'd say that!). The actions available to

any of the "8", as you say, swear them to secrecy making them part of the problem. Catch 22. Sad.

Welcome to DU! Thanks for the reply

[dubya_dubya_III]

9. well now that we're in this deep

413 simply pretends to enumerate and codify the secret rules for consideration or approval of matters of Marque in the context of a specifically prohibited. unconstitutional 'authority' for their licensing, specifically; not the full and open debate and vote on all foreign policy "crime licenses" before they are ordered, or even, at least, afterwords.

the issue here is to use all aspects of our government's political and leadership "intelligence" to investigate and analyze not just one(our) side of each enunciated policy conflict in detail, but both or all sides of every enunciated foreign policy conflict.

Seems like the best solution is to give any 3 of the 'gang of 8 Legislators' the same authority a President has to 'instantly declassify' any questionable action, suspect report or justification, or suspected poor investigational bias directing or indicating toward policy that might be false, highly objectionable or contraindicated, leading to terminal 'blow back' like the CIA's "Mujihadeen Osama" thing. The Chief Justice should also have discretion to order that the Attorney General investigate and prosecute or order stopped any apparent illegality or unconstitutionality found in the direction or intent of orders in any appealed 'finding' policy by means of private, secret appeal by any 1 or more of the Legislators..

Why were we sponsoring (in fact manufacturing) more advanced and sophisticated militarized Islamic Fascist terrorism, while we have over-sponsored an endless intractable conflict over the just partition of Palestine and the Final Status of the Abramic City-State Nation of Jerusalem? In consideration of the Status Quo each of the constituent Christian, Muslim and Jewish faiths should hold veto power in it's unique government.

Why not always work toward the establishment of the blessings of Liberty as we know them for all people in the world as a matter of Marque law and steadfast principle?

A Shiite party or a Sunni party or a Hamas party or a Catholic party (and even a 'christian' coalition) are concepts that are a pure anathema to the principles of Republican Liberty. Any Nation we 'build' must have the blessing of Liberty or we are just manufacturing more parochial conflict and tyranny.

And why have we condoned painting a target on Israel's back by supporting its arsenal? How stupid can people be?

Breaking the FISA law was another matter. Obviously the Attorney General cannot be relied upon to enforce the constitution, because a President is his boss and it's supposed to be the Presidents sworn duty to enforce it.

[splat@14]

10. I like your solution. One wonders how things haven't become worse

in the way of executive power, than they are now. The framers probably didn't have a concept of "secret", at least not as as we know it today, so the safeguards built into the three "equal" branches will never work to cover crap like this NSA thing. FISA was set up to be the oversight. But if it's ignored based on interpretation, what's next and who can stop it?

Good stuff, out of my pay grade!...why aren't you blogging?
Splat!

[DeaconNoGood]

11. both Dem's and Rep's knew about .............

the monitoring of private communications. The truth be known, probably every Congressman and Senator in Washington DC knew about the monitoring of private commuications it just wasn't discussed. The reason why? Because all the Congressmen and Senators, in private, will tell you that we need to monitor the bad guys.

All of this BS about monitoring is simply a political game as a run up to the elections.