What's the harm in homeopathy?

[FLAprogressive]

http://whatstheharm.net/homeopathy.html

Jacqueline Alderslade

Age: 55
Hollymount, County Mayo, Ireland


Died (asthma attack)
July 9, 2001
A homeopath told her to give up her asthma medication. She later died of an asthma attack. Read more & more

--

Cameron Ayres

Age: 6 months
Fulham, west London, England


Died
May 1999
Cameron was born with a rare but treatable disorder, but his parents distrusted conventional medicine. A nurse/homeopath begged them to take him to a doctor, but they refused. He died. Read more & more

--

Sylvie Cousseau

Age: 41
Paris, France


Died
March 31, 2001
Sylvie was diagnosed HIV positive, but pursued alternative treatments for her disease including homeopathy, acupuncture and drinking her own urine. She eventually died of AIDS. Read more & more & more

---

There's more, click the link above!

[G. Odoreida]

1. Homeopaths/naturopaths are the REAL "death panels" at work n/t

[MineralMan]

2. What, indeed...

This is the unseen side of homeopathetic "medicine." Such stories are common, but never mentioned by the advocates of this quackery.

[yellowcanine]

3. Quackery kills.

[Kali]

4. I agree that it is dangerous to use homeopathy exclusively

for treatable illnesses, but the technique of listing deaths from cases where it didn't "work" could probably be done tit for tat with conventional medicine. john doe had heart surgery but he died. jane smith tried chemotherapy but died from cancer etc etc etc

[FLAprogressive]

5. The difference is, one is science based, the other is entirely belief based.

[crim son]

6. I think most alternative approaches to medicine work or at least

appear to work either through the placebo effect or because the illness runs its course and goes away, and maybe therefore have their place as a palliative; but to substitute any of them for scientifically proven methods where one's life is at stake is... just sad, really. It's like people who believe prayer brings healing miracles... it doesn't happen, not a "miracle." I believe holistic medicine offers the best and most humane answer to illness but for some reason people seem to gravitate to either/or and don't feel comfortable mixing it up.

[FLAprogressive]

8. Exactly. Homeopathy only "works" through the placebo effect and it "works" for self-limiting illness

like colds, etc.

[TheWraith]

7. Kicked and recommended.

We need to have a science-based dialog.

[midnight]

9. While I do not use homeopathic med... I do know that

western medicine has their own deaths from simple mistakes... At our children's hospital here in Wisconsin an infant was born and needed heart surgery... The doc. was in training, and accidentally tied off the wrong heart valve and the baby died. I remember this story from years ago, because the parents of that infant were so compassionate toward that doctor that it was about the only good thing about that medical transaction.... They instead thanked the doctor for trying to help...


Western medicine has much to do to bring down their own fatalities... I suppose not having understaffed hospitals would go a long way to cutting back on mistakes....

[FLAprogressive]

11. There's a difference between human error and fraud.

[BuddhaGirl]

12. not just human error

drugs can kill too. There are far more deaths from drugs than from alternative medicine.

[Recursion]

13. There are also far more users of pharmaceuticals

Though in fairness, I don't think people are saying homeopathy itself kills people; it's people stopping actual treatment that kills them.

[trotsky]

27. You can't substantiate that claim. It is reckless and irresponsible.

Primarily because deaths from "alternative" "medicine" include those deaths of people who were trusting that "alternative" "medicine" to heal them when it didn't. Those are invisible stats. You won't find them cataloged and recorded as such. Oh and to add to the nuttiness, if such a person treated themselves with "alternative" "medicine" until they were at death's door, and THEN went to a hospital, where they died - they would be counted as a hospital death. Go figure.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Burma Jones]

10. Best Case, harm to your pocketbook.......

And to lighten up the conversation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0

[druidity33]

14. What's the harm in Tylenol?

There are far more deaths from acetaminophen than "homeopathy"...

:shrug:

[Recursion]

15. Well, if the guy selling me Tylenol told me to stop taking penicillin...

...then that would be a good analogy.

[druidity33]

18. That's disingenuous...

and so is this thread. People that recommend Homeopathy without consulting Traditional Doctors should be held accountable for the damage they cause. Beyond the most recent case of the Doctor with the fraudulent vaccine study, i don't see any "guy selling me" stuff and "telling me to stop" taking my medicine. Most people who take homeopathic remedies do so IN CONJUNCTION with their prescribed medications.

This is about uninformed consumers. Which is why i bring up the Tylenol. If you don't know what you're taking and don't consult a doctor, then you risk damaging yourself! What could be more plain? Sorry to say in that context, i think my analogy is apt... maybe not good, but apt.

:shrug:

[Tumbulu]

22. I agree with you, good post (nt)

[LeftishBrit]

24. You are quite right; but the reason why more emphasis is given to homeopathy here...

is that rather few people are *ideologically* in favour of using over-the-counter painkillers instead of consulting a doctor. They may not realize that their symptoms need more diagnosis, or that all medicines have side effects and should be handled carefully, or they may dislike seeing doctors, or (in America) not be able to afford to do so. But they will not ideologically defend the use of over-the-counter medicines as an alternative to (other forms of) 'Western medicine'.

'People that recommend Homeopathy without consulting Traditional Doctors should be held accountable for the damage they cause.'

Exactly and that would be my main point! So long as people do not reject modern medicine, and especially so long as they don't campaign against its availability for *other people* , then it's unlikely that homeopathic medicines will do much harm - or much good IMO, but if people feel that it helps them then it's their decision! But what bothers me is that some are ideological campaigners *against* conventional medicine.

[druidity33]

25. I guess so...

I just seem to be missing the whole "campaigners" part. Who and where are these people? (I'm not including people who have a religious problem with modern medicine) I've lived on 3 separate "hippy communes" and, excepting the vaccine issue, everyone went to see a traditional doctor when they got sick. I have books on Naturopathy and Homeopathy and Herbal remedies and they all say IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS, CLEARLY and right in the beginning of each book, "If you are sick consult a physician". The only campaigners I see are the ones that campaign AGAINST Homeopathy.

:shrug:

[LeftishBrit]

37. I hesitate to post too many links, in case someone here takes them seriously

but here is one example:

http://www.smashcancer.com/category/cancer_industry/

[HuckleB]

38. "If you are sick, consult a physician."

So those books are for entertainment purposes only?

[FLAprogressive]

16. and the strawman arguments begin.

[TlalocW]

17. There is no medicine in homeopathy

I forget exactly how it works, but this is as close as I can remember.

A 1C solution means putting 1 part of the "medicine" in 100 parts of water. Then it has to be shaken 100 times up and down, 100 times left and right, and 100 times back and forth. A 2C solution means taking 1 part of the 1C solution in 100 parts of water making it a 1 part in 10,000 part solution, with the shaking done 10,000 times in the 3 different directions (30,000 times in all). 3C is 1 in 1,000,000, etc.

At some point - don't remember what point, but there are medicines offered at this level - the solution is akin to a molecule of the "medicine" in a swimming pool the size of the solar system. In other words, you're not getting any of the medicine - just water that supposedly holds the memory of it. And the "medicine" is normally a hair of the dog type thing. For instance, caffeine is used for sleeping aids.

Asking why it's dangerous is the same as asking why faith healing is dangerous - neither works, but the believers will throw away their insulin (for example) at the insistence of the homeopathists/faith healers because they've been cured by nature/Dr. Jesus whereas modern medicine could only manage their illness. Nice fantasy until you die.

TlalocW

[Dorian Gray]

29. That's exactly why it's dangerous

If you can't sleep and you take some of this... it won't hurt you.

But if you get cancer and avoid medical treatment for this? Yeah... it WILL harm you.

[kudzu22]

36. That's pretty much my understanding too

I can't believe anyone doesn't see how stupid this theory is.

[Ratty]

19. There's an interesting 2010 experiment

Try and describe quantum theory to a physicist in the 1800s and you'd get about the same reception as homeopathy receives today. The main problem is there is absolutely zero scientific mechanism that would explain water having a memory. Add to that the inability to reliably reproduce the homeopathic effect using double blind, rigorous experimental methods and ... well, don't count me as a believer.

Still there was an interesting experiment conducted just last year by someone whose scientific reputation is above reproach that could be interpreted as water having memory. It has all but enraged many physicists. The link is below but I'll note that most of the detractors do concede that the experimental methodology appears to be quite rigorous. That is based on the little information that has been released. Not enough is known - the author claims it's standard not to release too much information prior to publication - to even begin trying to replicate it.

Like I said, I'm not a homeopathy believer but this announcement doesn't have the aura of nuttiness you usually detect in stuff like this.

Scientists Debate Magical DNA Teleportation

[Crunchy Frog]

21. My question is, why does the water remember the tiny amount of homeopathic substance

but forgets about all the toilets it's been in?

[Ratty]

32. My same exact thoughts

How long does this memory last? Does it, like, remember being peed out of dinosaurs?

[Crunchy Frog]

20. The harm is not in the homeopathy but in the refusal to treat

serious illnesses with recognized and effective medical treatments. If someone wants to down a sugar pill with their legitimate medications I don't see what the problem is.

[Tumbulu]

23. And you blame homeopathy? Look at the second person

in your own post you say the nurse homeopath begged them to go to a doctor.

Silly points and illogical conclusions IMO.

[druidity33]

26. Agreed. nt.

[trotsky]

28. But that's a huge part of the problem.

The homeopathic/"natural"/"alternative" community has worked very hard to create a culture of distrust toward evidence-based medicine. These incidents are the fruit of the seeds they have sown. You can't only blame the victim here.

[Dorian Gray]

31. Especially since the victim

was only six years old.

[mzmolly]

34. The problem is not that homeopaths have created mistrust. It's that pharmaceutical

companies have.

[Dorian Gray]

30. That's true

that nurse/homeopathic practitioner acted responsibly. Her patient's parents did not. And it ended tragically.

[mzmolly]

33. Agreed. I don't use homeopathy, but bad medical advice is dished

out daily at Doctors offices across the country. I guess it doesn't count if conventional medicine kills you?