Fighting fire with fire or poo with poo, "Scientists fight bugs with poo"

[HysteryDiagnosis]

WARNING: THERE IS AN AD FOR INSURANCE AT THIS SITE.

A simpler approach might have been to just use Primal Defense, works for me.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/01/19/us-faeces-transplants-idUSTRE70I1UT20110119


By Kate Kelland, Health and Science Correspondent

LONDON | Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:47am EST

(Reuters) - Once a year, every year, Professor Thomas Borody receives a single-stem rose from one of his most grateful patients. She is, he says, thanking him for restoring her bowel flora.

It's a distasteful cure for a problem that's increasingly widespread: the Clostridium difficile bug, typically caught by patients in hospitals and nursing homes, can be hard to treat with antibiotics. But Borody is one of a group of scientists who believe the answer is a faecal transplant.

Some jokily call it a "transpoosion." Others have more sciencey names like "bacteriotherapy" or "stool infusion therapy." But the process involves, frankly, replacing a person's poo with someone else's, and in the process, giving them back the "good" bugs they desperately need.

Borody's grateful patient, Coralie Muddell, suffered months of chronic diarrhoea so bad she would often embarrass herself in public, and had even stopped eating to try to halt the flow.

ON EDIT TO ADD: Why this NATURAL or ALTERNATIVE MEDICAL approach works... here is just ONE reason.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19190178
Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2009 Feb 17;106(7):2371-6. Epub 2009 Feb 3.
Differential NF-kappaB pathways induction by Lactobacillus plantarum in the duodenum of healthy humans correlating with immune tolerance.
van Baarlen P, Troost FJ, van Hemert S, van der Meer C, de Vos WM, de Groot PJ, Hooiveld GJ, Brummer RJ, Kleerebezem M.
Source

Top Institute Food and Nutrition, PO Box 557, 6700 AN, Wageningen, The Netherlands.
Abstract

How do we acquire immune tolerance against food microorganisms and commensal bacteria that constitute the intestinal microbiota? We investigated this by stimulating the immune system of adults with commensal Lactobacillus plantarum bacteria. We studied the in vivo human responses to L. plantarum in a randomized double-blind placebo-controlled cross-over study. Healthy adults ingested preparations of living and heat-killed L. plantarum bacteria. Biopsies were taken from the intestinal duodenal mucosa and altered expression profiles were analyzed using whole-genome microarrays and by biological pathway reconstructions.

Expression profiles of human mucosa displayed striking differences in modulation of NF-kappaB-dependent pathways, notably after consumption of living L. plantarum bacteria in different growth phases. Our in vivo study identified mucosal gene expression patterns and cellular pathways that correlated with the establishment of immune tolerance in healthy adults.

[Warpy]

1. I could diagnose clostridium difficile when I got on the elevator in the lobby

A poo transfusion is a whole lot less disgusting than having to deal with it, it's a truly horrible infection, one of those stenches you never forget.

I knew they were doing studies and that the studies were more than promising.

It makes sense: c. difficile is a hardy bug that only flourishes when the rest of the intestinal bugs get killed off by antibiotics or food poisoning. Repopulating the colon with friendlier bugs will once again keep it in check.

Just expect your nurse to make a face when administering it.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MineralMan]

8. None of those stories have anything to do with any health concern

some DUer who happens on this post might have. Testimonials are not evidence of anything. Proper medical advice is important for anyone who has a health concern. Proper medical advice does not come from anonymous testimonials. It does not come from websites that have the purpose of selling nostrums and other "health" products. That's why medical advice is not allowed on DU. If a DUer has a health concern, he or she should consult a physician or other health care professional, not random posts on a political discussion forum.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

13. Uh.... you are in a health forum on a political discussion forum. Please remember that. If

people didn't speak up and at least show others that this stuff exists they would never see it and they certainly wouldn't be introduced to it by someone who spent hundreds of thousands going to med school.

[MineralMan]

17. Yes, a health forum where asking for or providing medical advice

is against the rules. The only acceptable medical advice on a forum like this one is to refer the person asking to their healthcare professional. Neither you nor I are competent to offer any medical advice, as far as I know. Do you have medical training or education. Are you an MD? If not, then this is not the place for medical advice to be offered. And no MD or other professional medical person would ever offer any specific advice on an internet forum like this one.

There are many healthcare forums, where people with actual medical backgrounds and education offer some advice. However, more often than not, they simply provide information and suggest seeing your own medical professional. They specifically do not recommend any sort of medication, either over the counter or by prescription, as you do here from time to time.

It's very simple. Medical professionals know that it is not proper to diagnose nor prescribe without an examination of the person, history taking, and careful evaluation of many factors, including all medications or supplements currently being taken. To do that is close to malpractice. Unless you have qualifications you have not shared with us, it's even more egregious to offer such advice as an amateur.

[mopinko]

20. to clarify- actually,

the rule prohibits asking for medical advice. it is interpreted narrowly.

[MineralMan]

21. Thank you for that clarification.

I appreciate it. I've also seen threads locked for giving medical advice, and messages deleted for the same reason.

[HuckleB]

22. So one post was deleted for mentioning ...

Life Extension Network, as the moderator decided that this was a personal attack on a specific individual, despite the fact that no one mentioned anyone.

The individual who posted this OP has repeatedly pushed medical advice and specific products, yet this OP is ok?

Sorry, but something is VERY wrong here.

[SidDithers]

24. Thanks...

:thumbsup:

Sid

[uppityperson]

25. How is this not an attempt to give health care advice, or at least this should be in Market forum

whatever the one is where people try and sell things.

[MineralMan]

2. Nice of you to give us a link to that Primal Defense stuff

in your signature line. Is that the site where we should buy it? Kind of expensive, really, though. A guy could probably find an equivalent pro-biotic product at the local drugstore for less. A guy could ask the pharmacist. Very clever of you. :shrug:

[HysteryDiagnosis]

4. If you don't give a shit that thousands of people are in the hospital or suffering from

xyz digestive disorder as I have, then please play through. You can google for whatever you like, you can buy whatever you care to. You don't have to click on any link. You don't even have to click on any of my posts since they are simply attempts to help people discover answers to some of the most distressing problems imaginable.

I am sorry that you don't see it for what it is. Amazon sells this stuff, IHerb, and any one of a thousand other places and frankly I don't care what people think as long as some people find their way to wellness even when they were told there were no answers for them.

[MineralMan]

6. The deal is that you're giving medical advice. You may pretend

that you aren't, but you are. That you say this product helped you is irrelevant. There are many kinds of gastrointestinal illnesses. Only a medical professional can properly diagnose and prescribe for another person's problem. If someone has a lower GI problem and decides to take whatever nostrum you're recommending, that person might delay seeking proper medical advice. That could lead to serious problems from a failure to be diagnosed with a serious condition.

You directly recommend this product in your post. The addition of clips from articles on fecal transplantation, etc. have nothing to do with your recommendation.

Giving medical advice and suggesting remedies are very bad ideas. That's why it's not allowed on DU.

I don't care who sells this stuff you're recommending. Without a proper diagnosis, it's recommending something from zero knowledge of anyone who reads your post.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

14. Where would you rather read about a possible solution to a very shitty problem?? In

the New York Times? The Bible?? How about Mad Magazine..... or PubMed database??? I put up a product that has helped people in a similar situation to get their internal ecology back on track... it's not rocket science to realize that bad bacteria compete with the good ones and that people with more degrees than you and I formulate these products to do what it is that they do.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21091992

J Gastroenterol Hepatol. 2010 Dec;25(12):1827-30. doi: 10.1111/j.1440-1746.2010.06444.x.
Role of probiotics in management of diverticular disease.
Narula N, Marshall JK.
Source

Department of Medicine (Division of Gastroenterology) and Farncombe Family Digestive Health Research Institute, McMaster University, Hamilton Ontario, Canada.
Abstract

Patients with diverticular disease may experience a variety of chronic symptoms, including abdominal discomfort, bloating, and altered bowel habit. They are also at risk of complications, including hemorrhage, diverticulitis, abscess, and fistula formation. The potential role of abnormal colonic microflora in the pathogenesis of diverticular inflammation has led to investigation of novel therapies such as probiotics. Probiotics are microorganisms that may be of net benefit to humans when consumed. The rationale and safety of their use in diverticular disease is discussed and current literature is reviewed.

[MineralMan]

16. Information is good. Ads for patent medicines, not so much.

There's no problem with posting factual, evidence-based information from respected and trusted sources. It's when you tie those to links to some place that sells some "remedy" for the ailment that there's a problem. Think about it.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

5. For many people whose stories I have read.... no other probiotic, not even the ridiculously

expensive refrigerated ones gave them relief. When you do the math this stuff is not expensive at all.

[MineralMan]

7. I don't care how many "stories" you have read.

They do not entitle you to recommend products for other people's health issues. People who have health concerns should seek professional advice, not take some product recommended by a non-professional who read some "stories" about it or found that product useful in their particular situation.

This is not a medical advice forum. You are not a health-care professional. You have not seen the people who will read your recommendations. You could do great harm to someone who has a serious medical condition by touting some product that may not be suitable for their condition and may keep them from being properly diagnosed and treated.

There are legitimate medical sites on the Internet. None of them sell products. All of them will advise that individuals seek proper medical advice for their specific concern. The site you linked to is not such a website.

That's my opinion.

[MineralMan]

9. Thank you for removing the link to the company that sells

the product you recommended from your signature line.

[uppityperson]

10. +100

[laconicsax]

11. +1

[HysteryDiagnosis]

12. I do not recommend any products. I put them up and people can read, I mean we all have

the internets, we have all the resources at our disposal. Perhaps Amazon should remove all of their customer reviews, as well as all other sites on the net. We wouldn't want people getting the wrong ideas.

We'd rather just feed them to the wolves who control the med schools, who push drugs in the television that are ALWAYS involved in class action suits. We shouldn't say, hey look over here, read this clinical report, take this to your doctor, get informed that there may be something out there to assist you with what you have been told is an irreversible condition.

[laconicsax]

15. It's just coincidence that the products are always supplements, right?

[MineralMan]

18. "A simpler approach might have been to just use Primal Defense, works for me."

That, my dear HysteryDiagnosis, is a recommendation of a product. Pure and simple.

"Here, try this. It worked fine for me." Same statement.

[HuckleB]

19. I don't know how this is allowed at DU.

It's nothing short of bizarre.

[Warpy]

23. Dosing yourself with health food store pills is not equivalent

[SidDithers]

26. I take homeopathic poo every time a drink a glass of water...

so I'm not worried about c.difficile.

Sid