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Disgusting equation: Pierced ears = abortion for teen girls.

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politicat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 02:55 PM
Original message
Disgusting equation: Pierced ears = abortion for teen girls.
Not living in California, I wasn't aware of Prop 73, which seeks to curtail minor women's abortion rights. I saw the pro-site today, and I can't believe that people fall for these arguments.

From the site:
In California, if your daughter is under 18: She can't get a flu shot, she can't go on a school trip, she can't have a tooth pulled, she can't get her ears pierced, without your knowing it.
But an older boyfriend or school employee can take your 13-year-old daughter to an abortionist who can perform a SURGICAL or CHEMICAL ABORTION upon her without your knowing it.


Hm. What crap! Pierced ears never ruined a life. Missing or getting a flu shot doesn't normally ruin a girl's chance of a successful career, college or getting out of poverty. Not getting a tooth pulled is not the same as not getting an abortion - the tooth doesn't hang around for 18 years, demanding to be fed, educated and housed.

These shameless bigots are using Holly Patterson's death (she was the 18 year old who died from sepsis after Mifesperone caused an incomplete abortion; she did not report this to her provider and thus the appropriate after-care that she should have gotten) to promote this, despite the fact that Miss Patterson was 18 when she sought the abortion and 18 when she died.

I fear that these parental consent laws will be extended eventually to all unmarried women and all married women will have to get permission from their husbands... Nibbling away at the edges of rights.

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ThumperDumper Donating Member (368 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. And the government doesn't try to interfere...
Edited on Mon Nov-07-05 03:01 PM by ThumperDumper
with a woman's decision to have a tooth pulled or get her ears pierced... -JJ

Shameless plug: http://jaundicejames.blogspot.com/
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politicat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Bookmarking the shameless plug.
(Nice to see another Denverite!) :hi:
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ThumperDumper Donating Member (368 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Saaaaweet! PM me sometime. We'll grab a beer or something. n/t
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
2. This country is becoming completely insane over this subject
Edited on Mon Nov-07-05 04:22 PM by kenny blankenship
Individual rights start with your body. THat is why corporal punishment (eg: hacking off fingers, hands, gonads, noses, feet, etc. as still practiced in some areas of the world) is not an overt feature of western jurisprudence anymore (although it sneaks back in the penitentiary system through the use of chem- burning agents which often leave scars on inmates). That is why branding of convicts skins is not practiced anymore.
That is why slavery is not legal in western societies anymore (although it sneaks back in in the form of conscripted prisoner labor).
That is why you cannot be compelled to present yourself in church anymore whether you believe or not. And yes, church attendance used to be compulsory in many countries where individual liberty is now respected. (Maybe I should say where individual liberty is "for now" respected, because it's clear that there is a movement afoot here and elsewhere in the world, even as the nation-state weakens because of borderless capitalism, to recapture what's left of the state's power by various fundamentalist sects.)
That is why the state cannot compel you to undergo a surgical procedure. That is why the state cannot decide to euthanize people carrying a contagious and fatal disease. That is why the state cannot compel couples to produce a quota of children for the maintenance of the workforce or the armed services or the consumer force.

Because the right of the state or anyone else over your physical person ends at your skin. It is foundational to the political philosophy that led to our laws and Constitution that your body is your sole and exclusive property. There is no property right, for example, without this foundation. Why is it there? Well, to make the world safe for property accumulation to be sure, but also to safe guard the

A woman's right to choose whether or not to carry her pregnancy is NOT A SPECIAL "ABORTION" RIGHT. It's not a special right at all. It is only one instance of the otherwise respected right of an individual person to total sovereignty over their body and its labor--the material basis of their life. In all other categories of experience this right is respected by our government and laws--and where there are breaches of this rule there is always outrage. In this one case though, people just can't get it through their heads that they are called on by the principles that underlie all the freedoms they benefit from in our culture, to respect the sovereignty of women over their own bodies.

If the state can cross the line that traditionally has been drawn (in western political thought since the Enlightenment) at the outside of people's bodies, and it can forbid women to abort pregnancies at their discretion, then there's no reason it could not cross that line on a slight angle, and likewise compel them to become pregnant to serve state interests.

Never in American history or in Britain (which also believes strongly in the primacy of the individual and property-rights) has there been a law authorizing the state to compel me to donate my organs to save lives of victims of disease or accident. Not even after my death can the state reach into my body and forcibly take my organs away with the purpose of saving the life of another whose existence as an individual with consciousness and memory cannot be doubted. But when it comes to women and pregancies that they don't want, the legal situation somehow is supposed to be COMPLETELY different according to fundamentalist woman-haters. The woman has no say or right all of a sudden about what is happening to her body. She must bear the pregnancy because it is life. Whether it is conscious life or life that can exist outside her body without constant support is inconsequential to their argument. That's because their position rests on a universe of mythical assumptions beginning with a male Deity which creates individual souls with as much fanfare as He created the entire Universe, and these souls are implanted in bodies even when there is nothing of a body to recognize, nothing in it to think with, even when there is nothing more than a tiny collection of cells, this mass of tissue is supposed to have a "soul". And that is why the law they say has to be completely different in how it deals with women's bodies, and their wombs, from the way it keeps a respectful distance from my male body and the kidneys and lungs that it could donate to preserve life for someone else who is inarguably a human individual, and who will die without them.

Well I don't see them arguing for compulsory organ donation. So I have to demand that they keep their sick fucking religion to themselves, and that they respect the Founders' idea of a state that has no duty to conform to religious and metaphysical notions about souls but merely a duty to maintain an orderly peace among bodies, letting souls to take care of themselves in churches that the state does nothing to promote, or discourage, or prefer. If you think you have a soul, cultivate its relationship to the Creator, or to the Universe, or to the Nada or whatever with my blessing; but leave the rest of us alone.
And if you don't like the idea of a woman having an abortion, don't have one!
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politicat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Righteous rant, Kenny!
Thanks...
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ThumperDumper Donating Member (368 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Wow...
Edited on Mon Nov-07-05 05:38 PM by ThumperDumper
I need a T-Shirt that says that! : )

But seriously, that was an EXCELLENT post! Thank you. -JJ


Shameless plug: http://jaundicejames.blogspot.com/
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Thanks to both of you TD & PC
Edited on Mon Nov-07-05 07:42 PM by kenny blankenship
there's some more I needed to work out and put in there, but today I just don't have the time. I read an article about the difficulty women are having getting access to "Plan B" contraception pills at Salon this morning (they're not abortion inducing meds at all, but the resistance to them is just as vociferous) and it just set me off. I've thought about this subject all my life off and on, but now for the first time I can remember it seems we are on the brink of radical changes for the worse for reproductive choice and basic individual liberty.
First maybe it will be your body they invade.
Then it will be mine. We've got to re-draw that line and make them respect it.
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WildClarySage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-07-05 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
8. Possibly one reason she didn't contact her provider was because
she didn't want her parents finding out that she had an abortion???
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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
9. This was the argument they used in a debate the other night
6 men on the panel discussing this issue. :eyes:

As if a 15 year old asking her parents to get her ears pierced is the same as a 15 year old telling her parents that she is pregnant!

Thank goddess this proposition did not pass.
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HockeyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. STUPID people
Get them a DICTIONARY. They don't know the difference between notification and CONSENT. "Guess what, Mom and Daddy? I am getting an abortion. See ya, later." End of story. Whereas for the ear piercing, etc., the parents have to sign on the dotted line giving their CONSENT. We must have a LOT of really ignorant people in this country who cannot understand vocabulary.
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HockeyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-09-05 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Post script
Not mention, that the vast majority of parents, when faced with a teenager daughter's pregnancy and the detriment to her FUTURE and health, WILL find the best Doctor available to end her pregnancy.

As the mother of two daughters, I certainly would have given my consent in a New York minute. Your child's future is more important than a "potential" grandchild. Besides which, her right on whether or not to be a mother, trumps my right to be a grandmother. My own mother said the same decades ago. These people have no clue.

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Leeny Donating Member (298 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
12. CA's Prop. 73 was defeated!!!
Prop. 73 which would have required parental notification, was defeated!!!! AND, ALL of Schwarzenneger's props were defeated to. Gives new meaning to "Just Say No!" We just said NO!!!!!

:bounce: :toast: :kick:
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