My Prediction for the Post-Roe US. -- MUCH worse than "coat-hanger days"

[NAO]

Some have speculated that with the resignation of O'Connor, who was the swing vote protecting Roe v. Wade, we will soon see the overturning of that decision. Predictions for this scenario have ranged from ideas about abortion being unavailable in some states, and available in others, to the return to the 'coat-hanger' era before Roe.

I predict that it is going to be MUCH worse than that. The anti-abortionists see their situation as being historically parallel to the abolitionists. They have used Dred v. Scott in their rhetoric for a while now.

***

What I predict for the post-Roe US looks like this:

- the overturn of the decision;

- Bush makes a speech deliberately designed to mimic the Emancipation Proclamation, declaring the 'end to the genocide' and affirming the Constitutional Rights of Unborn US Citizens;

- a Constitutional Amendment is passed affirming the Citizenship and Equal Protection under the Law for the Not-yet Born.

***

Consequent to these actions, performing, seeking, or assisting an abortion in any way will be an act of FIRST DEGREE MURDER. It will be legally construed as pre-meditated murder. It will be see as no different than hiring a mafia hit man to take out an 8 year old child whose care is interfering with the career of his mother.

I think they will also seek to establish by legislation or precedent or both, that the first-degree murder of an unborn US Citizen is a capital offense which more than merits the DEATH PENALTY. If they can get the death penalty for doctor, mother, driver, and financier, I think they will feel that justice has been done. They will seek the death penalty for abortion (not called abortion any more, now known as the 'pre-meditaed murder of an unborn person') in every case for all culpable parties.

Under this scenario - which may sound extreme until you have spent some time immersed in Christian culture, and read the writings of the Dominionists - people will YEARN for the good old days of the 'coat-hanger' when the only risks of abortion were from a botched procedure and there was no risk of being indited of a capital crime and sentenced to death.

[MichiganVote]

1. They won't be satisfied until women are tried for murder

[kestrel91316]

34. You do realize also that the Dominionists want to bring back STONING

as means of enforcing the death penalty??

:popcorn:

As you sow, so shall you reap, fundies. Your girls can get pregnant and be unhappy about it, too.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. my prediction is that this cold civil war will finally go hot

they are pushing and pushing and pushing... it will lead to consequences they cannot even fathom

Hang on,

and by the way, why do I say this? Today was one of them random days, a caller to the Shultz show actually called for armed revolt against this tyranny.. starting to hear that, more often... it is no longer whispered

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[no_hypocrisy]

3. I'll go one step further.

Home pregnancy tests will be banned, thus women will have to go to doctors to confirm a pregnancy. If pregnant, the doctor will be legally obligated to turn in the name, address, phone #, national ID#, etc. of the mom-to-be to the local health dept. and the federal agency regulating motherhood. If the woman tries to leave the country to get an abortion, her name will be on a list, and she will be turned back at the airports, train stations, and the borders and will be forced to bear that child.

[NAO]

14. Yes, that is how they will enforce the ban. Give the zygote a SSN.

The minute a doctor confirms a pregnancy, assign the zygote a Social Security Number.

If the mother goes out of the country, and returns to the US and the zygote is gone, report a missing person and put her under suspicion of murder.

Now I don't know how they would handle natural miscarriages - women frequently spontaneously miscarry. I suppose they would have to do tests to see if there had been any invasive procedures or unusual chemicals.

[Maat]

5. I fear that you are correct.

A close relative of mine had an abortion early on in a pregnancy about 20 years ago. Her partner was a vile, violent, abusive man, who likely was involved in the sale of methamphetamine (and who availed himself of the product). She knew that he would not be a loving, reliable father to any child; she knew that he would insist on visitation with a child, and terrorize Mom and Child through the exercise of those rights.

She had the D&C guilt-free.

Now, I fear that, not only could people unjustly be convicted of murder, but would be essentially sentenced to a lifetime of guilt, for making a 'right' decision, even if they were not caught.

I also have another close relative who had an abortion when they were illegal; a rich Republican boyfriend coerced her into doing so (at the same time he condemned the procedure I might add). She did not suffer from a lifetime of guilt - even though it was illegal.

I fear things are going to get much worse.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Maat]

12. You may be right about coming north.

Honestly, moving to Canada is sounding better and better all of the time.

[napi21]

6. What are you people drinking this afternoon?

I thought I heard all the doomsday stories and conspiracy theories, but WOW!

I realize we all detest ShrubCo, but las I checked, he couldn't wiggle his nose and make magic happen!

I agree, they will try everything to get Roe overturned. Will they be successful? I have no idea, and neither does anyone else right now.

Where did this Constitutional Ammendment idea come from? Hell, even if he did try for one, he'd be long gone from office before it could even be on the ballots for rattification, and I doubt it would ever pass in enough states.

Have another marguerita and relax a little bit!

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

9. I agree,

There is something standing in the way of all this. It is 2006.

Get to work. NOW.

[koopie57]

13. I tend to agree with you

The abortion issue is a perfect wedge issue that benefits the republicans. How many union people vote republican cuz of abortion? How many Christians vote republican cuz of abortion who would otherwise vote for care for the poor? I think they must at least be concerned about overturning Roe v Wade cuz the abortion issue is keeping many people automatically voting republican. At least IMHO.

[Maat]

10. I hope you are right, Napi21 (n/t).

[tubbacheez]

8. It will be rough times, but women still have a few tools to fight with.

As philandering as so many of the Dominionist men have proven themselves to be, and as the Dominionists crack down on contraception, we will probably see an upsurge in illegitimate children whose mothers are more than happy to sue for child-support.


Yeah, small solace perhaps. But I'm not ready to predict total defeat for women yet. I have faith in their collective creativity to carry on the fight... even on disadvantageous terrain.

[Maat]

11. See my post above - I think that you are right.

Like I said, a close relative of mine was compelled by her partner, a Rethuglican monster if there ever was one, to get an abortion - when it was illegal - at the same time he was 'standing proud' for conservative values. What a pig! May he rot in Hell forever!

But I digress.

HE had no interest in child support.

[Nobody]

20. Yet another Pro Choice As Long As It Isn't A Woman's Choice hypocrite

Your close relative's partner has proven himself to be pro-choice, just not pro-the woman's choice.

People like that can't ever let a woman make her own decisions. It's not about abortion, it's about controlling other people's lives.

[thegreatwildebeest]

15. There are alternatives...

...to surgical abortions, and more than likely the whole process will just go underground. It WILL be a giant blow if abortions are made illegal, but at best it will last a handful of years, and overturning the decision will not impact all states, just a good chunk of them.

[NAO]

16. They won't stop until it's illegal in all states; won't call it 'abortion'

The religionists behind the anti-abortion movement will not stop until it is illegal in all states.

They are going to seek to completely re-frame the issue by getting zygotes classified as US Citizens. Then it will be pre-meditated murder. There is no debate or disagreement on that. To kill a US citizen is murder, no matter in which state it is done.

To talk about it using the term 'abortion' frames it in terms of pregnancy - a pregnancy is aborted. Once they overturn Roe they will quickly act to get rid of the term 'abortion' and enact legislation to classify fertilized eggs as human beings. Then they can appeal to the right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" and forget about the 'abortion debate'.

And as far as the duration...well, court appointments are for life. Even if we were able to take the White House and BOTH the House and Senate, we would not be able to re-instate abortion on demand, any more than the Republicans, who HAVE TAKEN the White House AND the House AND the Senate have been able to abolish it.

It's all about the courts and taking control of the judiciary. If you have not read (or have not read recently) "The Despoiling of America" I highly recommend that article.

The Despoiling of America: How George W. Bush became the head of the new American Dominionist Church/State
http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm

[musical_soul]

17. Not far off.

Antis will not be happy with just an overturn of Roe. They'll push for completely making it illegal. It won't be turned into a capital case because it would cause too much outrage.

[kestrel91316]

18. Republic of Gilead, here we come! nt

[Codeblue]

19. Once Roe is done

Im done with this country. I dont care how much money I have Im leaving. I don't like abortions myself, but once that gets overturned what's next?
It will be losing the very essence of our freedom with Roe.

[eleny]

21. And then they'll go after birth control

[MountainLaurel]

22. They already have

Think of all the articles about pharmacists who won't fill prescriptions for BC, health plans that won't cover it, doctors who won't prescribe it, and, most recently, Rick Santorum's comments on CNN about the Griswold case, the decision about birth control that was a precursor and precedent for Roe.

[eleny]

23. Yes, they are

I meant a full frontal assualt banning it by law.

[demigoddess]

24. I think there is an even bigger agenda

I was hearing last night the RW view on gay marriage etc, they were blaming gays for getting easier divorces legalized. But they were seeming to say that no fault divorces were the slippery slope to the horrible state of affairs we have in the US now. Degradation etc. I think they will make it much more difficult to get a divorce if they can overturn Roe. They will say something like it is detrimental to the child to allow parents to divorce. Next stop after that will be to roll back marriage law to what it was in the 1800's. Women not only could not get a divorce but could not get custody of their children because a divorced woman was too 'loose' to be allowed custody of minor children. Some women in those days were never allowed to speak to their children again. Of course the husband could have mistresses and not be considered to amoral to raise their children.

[flying_wahini]

25. sorry, but i disagree

first of all, people will never yearn for the good old days of the coat-hanger abortions......those were terrible, dark days, take it from me.... as an older woman I can tell you that there always were
clean abortions available for those who could afford one. ALWAYS.
Now, ALL of the Republican women I know well are pro-choice. The only anti-abortion women I know fall into the fundamentalists "bible-beaters" -- "Upper-crust" republican women will NEVER give up having
abortion on demand. Their daughters will be able to have one whenever they like. Just like in the 60's. Except if what you
predict happens, then women will just drive down to clinics in Mexico or drive up to Canada...... yes, I know the poor won't be able to afford them,,,,,,,,
Just like prohibition - people finally figured out --- you can't legislate morality. People won't stand for it.

[cap]

35. it's already happened in Mississippi

there's only one abortion clinic in the state...
they are abandoning babies, doing folk medicine, and, of course, those who can afford to, go out of state for abortions...

No one's complaining too loud. They are standing for it in Mississippi..

[thegreatwildebeest]

26. It's already Post-Roe...

...if you mean the reality of getting an abortion and halfway decent reproductive health. Most abortion clinics are in major cities, barely any hospitals perform it (particuarly as they get bought up by religious affiliated hospitals), and the cost of getting on and getting there is amazingly prohibitive. People need to get off their duffs and volunteer either for their local clinic or establishing an abortion fund, or something else. WIthout access, legality doesn't mean jack.

[really annoyed]

27. One abortion clinic in my community.

I've heard personal stories of women waiting six hours because the clinic is so packed. On top of that, I've also heard of the wailing coming from anti-choicers to these women. They stand in front of the clinic everyday with Jesus signs.... Yeah, real compassionate pro-lifers!

The clinic serves low-income women with basic obgyn services during the week, and it still gets picketed.

[thegreatwildebeest]

28. People should picket...

...so called "alternative" centers, which are really nothing but glorified adoption centers, that get babies for free and then turn around and adopt them out for 10,000 a pop (which is the average cost of an adoption these days). Pro-lifers claim Planned Parenthood is an "Abortion mill" that makes millions of dollars. So what about these supposed alternative centers? THEY need to be picketed for spreading dishonest, medically incorrect information, and making a ton of money off of women who are in desperate situations.

[really annoyed]

29. Yep

I've often thought the same thing too. How would they like it if the shoe was on the other foot?

[thegreatwildebeest]

30. Not too well...

...I would presume. I wonder what women would say if they knew that they were being profiteered off while in a desperate situation. While there are many legitimate adoption agencies, as well as government agencies that deal with such, the ones that advertise specifically as alternative abortion centers are the most despiacable of the bunch, preying off women who would want to exercise their choice but scare them from it.

[really annoyed]

31. We need women to get correct info

You are right, there are many reputable agencies that are willing to help out pregnant women with adoption and pre-natal services. It would be wise for these agencies to do more advertising.

There are even some good agencies that are specifically pro-life too that are not preachy or misleading too, but they are harder to find out of the mass of facilities you were posting about.

[ladylibertee]

32. As A woman,black and young...Im SCARED

[WildClarySage]

33. I'm very concerned about my future, and my sons' futures

in this country, reproductively speaking. I faced a potential problem with the pregnancy I'm carrying now and worried would abortion be available if a poor diagnosis was confirmed. Thank heavens it wasn't, and all's well. But if my sons ever need contraceptives (heh, ever... lol) will they be available then? What if my next pregnancy (heh, next pregnancy... lol) isn't so fortunate? What if my daughter-in-law someday needs contraceptive or abortion services? Or are my sons doomed to having families larger than they can support because some idiot repukes decided that they shouldn't have sex if they dont want to procreate?

[Ally McLesbian]

36. That'll require me to change the plans.

Because I am sick and tired of not being able to obtain healthcare at ANY cost, I was thinking of becoming an entrepreneur, then emigrating to Canada or another progressive country as an investor.

But if this scenario becomes true, I am NOT waiting. I am leaving immediately as a refugee.

I am transgender, which means I won't ever have unwanted pregnancies. But W will want my kind exterminated anyway (maybe except their pawn Ann Coulter, as long as he/she is useful to them).