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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 12:26 PM
Original message
This scandal has only at the beginning..
Wait until the victims bring the lawsuits and discovery begins.

I rrad on SI today that Joe may still be charged with perjury.
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Condem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
1. The latest from Mr. Staples about McQueary...
Edited on Thu Nov-10-11 05:03 PM by Condem
...http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/andy_staples/11/10/penn-state-mike-mcqueary/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_t11_a2
A lot of sport sites talking about Paterno's tarnished legacy. Shit. We haven't got fucking close to the bottom of this tale.
Tarnished will not be close to the fuckin' word to describe JoePa's legacy.
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Holy crap.
I was not aware that McQueary was the grad student.

Whoa.
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Condem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Not a Barry Switzer fan, but he is the first one to state the obvious....
EVERYBODY KNEW. The whispers were going on for years. And instead of focusing on the Penn State University hierarchy, who hid this thing for fucking God knows how long, we're focusing on a 28 year old GA at the time who worshipped at the Penn State altar. Played QB when Sandusky was there. The legendary Sandusky, who set up the game plan to beat Herschel Walker and Georgia. Then, four years later, a genuius display of coaching to beat Miami. Yet, everybody fucking knows what they would have done in McQueary's stead. Do you, now? Seeing that despicable sight of someone you idolized engaged in a hideous act with a child. No one knows what went through his head. Except him. Sorry. With his background, no one can speak for him. It's pure speculation on anyone's part to say what they would have done. I do find it hard to believe that he is the main focal point of this whole deal. At LEAST, he did something. Granted, it wasn't much. No one else did a fucking thing. Flame away.
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El Supremo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Just give me a good reason, any good reason, that McQueary would have...
to not intervene and only report it to his superior.

That is the question that was on The Drive Home on KOA tonight.
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Condem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. What would you have done, El.
Given McQueary's background.
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El Supremo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I'm not McQueary.
But he should be like me. I would have stopped it and gone to the police. Even if I knew Sandusky would knock off the DA.
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Condem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Um hum, El.
Have you had experience of an incident similar to this?
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El Supremo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Thank God no.
What has that to do with it?
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Condem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Then, how the fuck do you know what you would do?
It has everything to do with it. Given McQueary's background you have no idea what you would do.
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madinmaryland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. El. You just got your ass handed to you on a silver platter by Condem.
IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH IT!

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El Supremo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Then that is just a big condemnation of the young people of today. n/m
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Condem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. What the fuck are you talking about, El?
Are you going to blame this on youth? Are you fucking kidding me? I'll go the other direction. I blame this on fat cats who are looking for a scapegoat to be the face of this heinous crime. One that should take down one of the biggest universities in the US. As it should be.
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El Supremo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. Who do you think indoctrinated the stupid youth of today?
All of American Society is to blame.
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Condem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. You may say what you want about me, El.
But I'm not going to sit here and have you bad mouth the United States of America. Gentlemen!
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El Supremo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. OK. Now I know you're not serious.
Have a good laugh.
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Condem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. The fuck I'm not, El.
This is a situation that could take down one of the biggest universities in the United States. And if there was a cover-up of the magnitude that appears to be, so be it. In the meantime, we'll use a little known 28 year old GA as the scapegoat. Every individual in the upper echelon knew what was going on. The question is why did they let it go on for so long?
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
38. My son played D3 football and we were talking about this last night.
Edited on Fri Nov-11-11 03:15 PM by Old and In the Way
He asked me, "if I had been in McQueary's situation, what should I have done?" I told him I'd have counseled him to tell his coach. For one thing, it's a "he said, he said" situation, unless the victim comes forward and corroborates. McQueary's probably not going to have a career left in football if the school doesn't back his statement and press for criminal charges. And, lets face it, the whole football system is predicated on an authoritarian hierarchy. I would fully expect the head coach to take the point on this. Especially Joe Paterno's case. Paterno was untouchable - what would PSU do to Joe if he demanded that they deal with it in a public way? Fire him? Like that would have happened. He could have given them the ultimatum to deal with it through law enforcement channels - a crime was committed fer chrissakes - or he would expose their cover-up by going public. Instead, Paterno elected to wash his hands of it and now his storied career has been negated by this ugly stain. Only he is to blame for the way this ultimately turned out.
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happyiowan Donating Member (653 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
10. As a caveat...
I will say that I condone nothing that occured. It's a shame I even have to say this, but there is an aura of public hysteria that starts to make such statements necessary.

McQueary was a teenager when he began his life with Penn State. Paterno and Sandusky were not only his icons, but major authority figures. So, at 28, as a graduate assistant, he witnessed something that had to be both surreal and flat terrifying. I'm certain it took a great amount of courage to report it to Paterno in the first place. Yes, going to the police would have been the best thing with seven years of hindsight. However, perhaps at the time, going to Paterno was the best act of bravery he could summon.

Now you can say you would have beaten Sandusky on the spot or called the police or stepped into a phone booth and donned your cape and tights, but me, I would have pissed myself. It would have been horrifying.

Perhaps McQueary didn't do enough, but for the love of the sweet baby jesus, the powerful men, the President of the University, the Vice President of Finance (the true power broker), the coach himself, they all did absolutely nothing. And yet, we choose to sit here on flipping message boards and blame the damned messenger.
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El Supremo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. By the time I was 28...
I had learned not to trust or hold anybody in high regard OR to be afraid of repercussions. But that is because I had gone through the near revolution of the Vietnam debacle.
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happyiowan Donating Member (653 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Then you were both lucky and unlucky....
Lucky to have reached a level of maturity that many people haven't by that age and unlucky, too, since those are hard lesson. Me? I'm the child of that era, and a Marine's daughter. Respecting authority and the chain of command was drilled into me. I'm not being disingenuous when I say that in a situation similar to McQueary's, I would have been scared out of my socks.
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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #10
34. I posted about this on Facebook. We punish whistle blowers.
The whistle blower laws need to be strengthened. This is a corporate society where those at the top are protected. This is in Paterno's court. HE had the power. HE could have been a hero. He chose not to be.

Without excusing McQueary, how do we know he didn't fear for his job? For any job in college football following that? For being ostracized in the community?

Until we learn to let whistle blowers come forth with impunity, we will have situations like this.
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Well let's see here...
I see an Executive employee steal sensitive material and report it...I'm a whistleblower.

I see a 60 year old man anal raping a 10 year old and call the cops... I'm a moral human being.

If I don't report it or intervene--- I'm a coward.
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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. I don't disagree with you
but I think corporate America has created an atmosphere that sometimes discourages doing the right thing. Look at Herman Cain.
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
16. listen you dumb ass douchebags
Edited on Thu Nov-10-11 10:04 PM by trumad
Who support the 28 year old grad student.

If you see a 60 plus year old man fucking a 10 year old in the ass and do not intervene ...you're a fucking coward.

The questiin has been asked...what would you do..... I would have killed the mother fucker.
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happyiowan Donating Member (653 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. It's the first time I've been called...
a dumb ass douchebag. After all this time, it feels like a badge of honor. I simply will not pretend to great courage when it is a situation I have not faced. I do not, nor have I said I support McQueary, what I have said is that there are many people in positions of far greater authority who did far less. Reason suggests that there are other individuals who bear responsibility for not following through with the authorities.

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Condem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. You replied as trumad.
Not McQueary.
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madinmaryland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Well, coming from a keyboard warrior, I would expect no less from you. Did Rush Limbaugh tell you
to post that here???

You would have killed the mother fucker?? No. You would have gotten killed by the mother fucker.

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. I would have
inflicted severe physical damage on that sad excuse for a man.
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Condem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. We are not talking about you, H.
We are talking about McQuery and his background. It's easy to say or think what YOU would have done but you are in no place to talk about what HE would have done.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. That's true.
I can only say what I would have done. Still, I can agree with those who are upset with how others, such as McQuery, actually did respond. I understand and appreciate their outrage.
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Condem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Absolutely. But that's not the point.
McQueary played at Penn State. And no matter what sport you are in, how do you view your coach? Depends. Fear? Respect? Hard to say in each case. I'm saying no one has the authority to judge McQueary because you are not in his world, at the time. No one know's what that fucking terrible sight registered in his mind.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #23
37. Respectfully disagree.
If you are uncomfortable in judging that situation, that's up to you. But you are in no position to say that no one else can judge McQueary. No matter if it was "fear" or "respect" that kept him from taking action to protect that kid, he was a coward. He failed a kid who was the victim of a sick and violent crime.
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
24. Are you drunk?
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madinmaryland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. He's just a keyboard warrior.
:shrug:

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El Supremo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. And what are you?
A Penn State apologist?
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madinmaryland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-11 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. I think you are the drunk one, El. Oh yeah. You're in San Antone at the
bar talking to Teddy Roosevelt! I'm an Ohio State Buckeye's fan and looking forward to seeing our guys kicking Penn States asses next weekend.

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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 06:26 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. What Mad
Not calling H20 man a keyboard warrior for expressing the same view?

Well I guess I can call you a keyboard candy ass.

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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 06:28 AM
Response to Reply #24
33. No.. Im a father of two boys
And I am certain I would have stopped the rape of a 10 year old boy. Apparentally some here aren't so certain.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
39. Given what we know about how this was handled by Paterno and PSU...
Edited on Fri Nov-11-11 03:44 PM by Old and In the Way
what makes anyone think that the same people would have done anything different if McQueary goes directly to the police? I suppose the child victim could have turned on Sandusky, but that depends a lot on how the case is handled by law enforcement and their willingness to resolve this in the victim's favor vs. PSU's. Just as likely that Paterno and PSU officials say they are clueless about what happened and then it's McQueary's word against Sandusky. The only person in a position to make sure that the victim has justice served is Paterno...and he did nothing.

On edit, I'm not absolving McQueary of any responsibility in this. In fact, I suspect that a "quid pro quo" might have been reached to buy his silence. He was, after all, later hired as a fulltime coach. The fact that he elected to stay with the system that failed to come to the victim's aid tells me he ultimately became a co-conspirator in trying to sweep this under the rug.
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Condem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-11-11 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
40. Who is Jerry Sandusky? 10 minutes long but listen to the entire thing...
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