ESPN 30 for 30. "The Real Rocky" Chuck Wepner. Tuesday night.

[givemebackmycountry]

This is going to be a must watch.
I remember this dude.
He would NOT go down.
You say that, and say that while fighting Ali?
That's saying something.

Can't wait.

[RagAss]

1. He made Bayonne proud !!!

[H2O Man]

2. Tough guy.

He headlined a card that my brother fought on. Through the weigh-ins, and in the dressing room before the fights, Chuck was outstanding. Heck of a sense of humor.

One of my favorite stories was from when he fough former champion Charles "Sonny" Liston in 1970. Chuck had been TKOed in three rounds a year earlier, by future champion George Foreman (Big George's 4th pro fight). But Wepner had then beat two good contenders, Pedro Augusto and Manuel Ramos (who gave Smokin' Joe Frazier a scare in the second round of their war).

Anyhow, Liston was still a top-10 contender, and he put on a good show in what was to be his last fight. He decked Chuck with a hard body shot in round five, and cut him up so badly that Wepner required a reported 83 stiches after the referee stopped the bout in the 9th.

A reporter in the ring asked Liston if Wepner was the bravest man he ever met? "No," Liston said, "his manager is."

[Auggie]

3. Was he prone to cuts/bleeding,

(The Bayonne Bleeder), or was that a moniker he picked up from that Liston fight?

[H2O Man]

5. Good question.

Wepner was definitely prone to getting cut around his eyes. And because of the bone structore over the eyes, the scar tissue really never heals well .... even wearing headgear in training, I've seen guys start bleeding. Wepner had scar tissue over his eyes before he fought Liston.

Still, now that you mention it, I don't remember ever hearing him referred to as the Bayonne Bleeder until after the Liston bout. That was brutal -- somewhere around here, I have some old pictures of their fight. It was something like the second Ali vs Henry Cooper fight, in terms of all the blood.

Wepner lost his next two fights after Liston on cuts, too. The first one was when he traveled to England, to fight the best up-and-coming European heavyweight, Joe Bugner. Wepner was TKOed in 3, due to the scar tissue above his eyes getting ripped apart.

Then he fought in Scranton, against Jerry Judge. He was a small heavyweight from across in NJ. Judge would be a cruiserweight today; I don't believe he ever entered the ring at 200 lbs (he may after at the end of his career). He had recently defeated Tommy Hicks, a good light heavyweight from near Ithaca. But he seemed too small to fight Wepner. Still, that scar tissue didn't hold up long enough for Wepner's size to be a factor, and he had a third TKO loss in a row. So I think you are right about that moniker. Good call.

Wepner had been decked several times in his career, well before fighting Ali. I remember a young Buster Mathis blowing Wepner out fast, 2 or 3 rounds. Others decked him, too. But he did get the ref's call when he purposely stepped on Muhammad's foot, and has the only "official" knockdown of their fight. Ali punished him for that, and definitely knocked Wepner down at the end of the fight, but the referee stopped it without picking up the count.

Another favorite post-fight quip: going into that bout, Wepner told his wife that she would be "sleeping with the heavyweight champion of the world tonight." After the bout, she went into Wepner's dressing room, and asked him, "Do I get to sleep with Ali tonight?"

[Auggie]

6. I guess that's it, three bloody losses in a row...

The Ali fight was the first time I heard that unfortunate nickname. I always wondered about it. Thanks.

[NoGOPZone]

4. Wepner tells this story about the ref almost stopping the fight after nine rounds

and asking Chuck to tell him how many fingers he was holding up before allowing him to continue. Wepner correctly answered three after his manager touched him on the back three times.

http://wepner.homestead.com/files/chuck.html

[H2O Man]

7. Interesting site.

Thanks for posting the link to the Wepner site.

The referee did stop the fight after nine. Perhaps the scene he described had happened the round before; maybe the doctor told the ref to stop it. Nice manager! Letting your guy go out to face Sonny Liston blinded that way.

Another interesting thing was the part about him sparring Frazier. No doubt he did. But not to prepare for a title defense against Tony Alongi. Not only did the two never fight, but Frazier didn't win the title until after Tony was retired. Alongi was a tall, talented heavyweight, who came of age around the time that Marciano had retired, and Paterson was champion. Marciano was his role model, so to speak, or hero. But as he was tall and thin, his style was very different from Rocky's. But Marciano's old trainer would guide Alongi's early professional career.

Alongi's first lose was by TKO -- cuts caused by butts -- to a South American heavyweight (can't recall his name). That loss changed him. Shortly after that, Alongi got knocked out by Billy Daniels; Daniels was a good prospect coming off a loss to the young contender Cassius Clay, and would later fight Frazier -- considering that Daniels was another tall, thin heavyweight, I wonder if Wepner sparred with Joe to help prepare him for that one, or possibly against Maneul Ramos, a title defense against another tall, thin man.

Alongi retired after that. He made a brief comeback, that included two disputed draws with a young Jerry Quarry. He didn't lose on that comeback, but again retired. I think he was frustrated with having three of those fights ruled as draws. But he had retired a year before Joe fought Mathis for the "heavyweight title" of New York and four other states.