2 Ad Agencies Compete to Make an Ad for the End of Religion

[laconicsax]

http://twentytwowords.com/2011/09/09/2-ad-agencies-compete-to-make-a-better-ad-for-the-end-of-all-religion/

Which ad do you like best?

[mike_c]

1. that is a GREAT idea!

I voted for the second ad because I thought it was better than the first, but really they were both excellent. AND I can really get behind the premise!

[humblebum]

2. Attempting to ban any form of reason, thought, or idea is dangerous

and flies in the face of free-thought. The 2nd commercial that blames most of the world's problems on religion is a calculated falsehood, as history well proves. The majority of mass killings in all of human history have been done by NON-religious or anti-religious groups. Very naziesqe.

[laconicsax]

4. You'll note that the 1st doesn't advocate banning anything.

It advocates abandoning religion as outdated superstition. Nothing "naziesque" about that.

[humblebum]

5. And you'll note that I referred to the 2nd. However, advocating for the

elimination of any form of thought degrades, and delegitimizes the source of the idea to begin with. If that is what organized atheism is about, then it is anti-free thinking. Many of us do not consider religion as "outdated superstition." That is nothing more than group think.

[laconicsax]

6. Should superstition be legitimized?

BTW: Atheism isn't organized.

[humblebum]

7. Who has the right to tell people what and how to believe? And what defines superstition?

And, yes, atheism is becoming more organized all the time. Any group that ORGANIZES under the name of atheism is organized atheism, i.e. American Atheists, Atheist Alliance International, League of Militant Atheists, etc.

[laconicsax]

9. Superstition: su·per·sti·tion, noun

1. a belief or notion, not based on reason or knowledge, in or of the ominous significance of a particular thing, circumstance, occurrence, proceeding, or the like.
2. a system or collection of such beliefs.
3. a custom or act based on such a belief.
4. irrational fear of what is unknown or mysterious, especially in connection with religion.
5. any blindly accepted belief or notion.

That doesn't sound the slightest bit like religion. :sarcasm:

[humblebum]

10. Again, I would ask you what defines superstition? And

Who has the right to tell people what and how to believe?

You gave the definition of superstition, not what or who defines it. Certainly not everyone would agree on which ideas constitute a superstition.

Based on your definition, atheism could be considered superstition.

[laconicsax]

12. The word is commonly defined. n/t

[humblebum]

15. Commonly defined according to whom? The definition you

gave was an equivocation on the term, which opens it up to all kinds of interpretations. If anyone believes God to be real, then is God a superstition to that person?

Any blindly accepted ... notion. Yep. That could very well be atheism.

[laconicsax]

17. What definition would you prefer?

Maybe the OED one: http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/superstition?region=us

superstition(su·per·sti·tion)Pronunciation:/ˌso͞opərˈstiSHən/
noun
-excessively credulous belief in and reverence for supernatural beings:he dismissed the ghost stories as mere superstition
-a widely held but unjustified belief in supernatural causation leading to certain consequences of an action or event, or a practice based on such a belief:she touched her locket for luck, a superstition she had had since childhood

Maybe a French one? http://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/superstition

A. − Croyance religieuse irrationnelle, attachement inconsidéré aux doctrines et prescriptions qui sont du domaine du sacré. Superstition des reliques. La superstition consiste toujours, sans doute, à expliquer des effets véritables par des causes surnaturelles (Alain, Propos, 1936, p. 174). Que les fidèles interprètent et souvent déforment les procédures officielles ou communément reçues, c'est le sort de tous les cultes. La superstition attribue à certains intercesseurs des pouvoirs quasi divins (Traité sociol., 1968, p. 88).
− Péj. Ensemble des croyances (et pratiques) religieuses jugées contraires à la raison; religion. Puis Caliban, après avoir essayé de ricaner des bons saints de la superstition (...) s'en va, triste enfin! (Verlaine, Œuvres posth., t. 3, Prose, 1896, p. 184). profitait de l'occasion pour baptiser leur dernière née, qu'il entendait lui préserver des entreprises de la superstition (Aymé, Uranus, 1948, p. 274).

B. − Croyance irrationnelle à l'influence, au pouvoir de certaines choses, de certains faits, à la valeur heureuse ou funeste de certains signes. Superstition du mauvais œil. Les superstitions (...), telles que la divination par le vol des oiseaux (...) ont eu primitivement (...) un caractère philosophique vraiment progressif (Comte, Philos. posit., t. 5, 1841, p. 106). Cagliostro et Mesmer en imposaient aux foules. Quant au populaire, surtout dans les campagnes, il restait attaché à ses superstitions millénaires et croyait toujours à la sorcellerie (Lefebvre, Révol. fr., 1963, p. 68).

C. − Attachement excessif, soin trop méticuleux porté à quelque chose. Synon. fétichisme, scrupule. Superstition de la science. Tellier (...) poussait jusqu'à la superstition le culte de la poésie et des poètes (A. France, Vie littér., 1892, p. 178). Flaubert avait la superstition du style (Estaunié, Rom. et prov., 1942, p. 42).

Sounds about the same to me.

[humblebum]

18. Still a huge equivocation, so just about any idea could be

considered superstition to someone else.

[laconicsax]

19. Uh huh.

[humblebum]

20. So then, how long have you been so superstitious? And it is

definitely interesting to see how you cope with it. Some people throw salt over their shoulder, and you... well...I....yeh.

[laconicsax]

22. I'm not sure which is funnier...

Your unwillingness to admit that theistic religion is based on superstition, or your desperate wont to project it on to those who point it out to you.

Maybe the answer to your questions will come to you if you pray.

[humblebum]

23. Sorry, son. I know better. The one thing that I am certain of though is

that atheism is the MOST narrow-minded POV on the face of the earth. BTW, how have I tried to project anything on you? Seems to me the point of this thread is how to eliminate religion. Who is projecting on whom?

[cleanhippie]

26. -1 Unrec

[laconicsax]

28. First: I'm not your son, cut the condescension.

Second: You've made it patently obvious that you don't know better on a wide range of topics, the least of which being what atheism actually is.

Third: With respect to projection, maybe you can figure this one out--I point out that religion is superstitious, and you quibble about semantics and insist that atheism is superstitious.

Fourth: I gladly accept that positivism (which you're confusing with atheism) is "narrow" since it has a proven track record of curing disease, tripling the average life expectancy, building the technological world we live in, and sending people to the moon. Your 'broader' ways of knowing has accomplished jack shit in comparison. If you disagree, why don't you reply without relying on science?

[humblebum]

29. In reference to #1. I can think of a lot worse things to be called.

#2 It was your list of definitions that brought on the debate about the semantics of superstition.

#3 You proved by your own definitions that all religion is not considered superstitious by all people. It is purely the narrow opinion of a non-religious person.

#4 Who even mentioned positivism? And if you are linking it to science, you would be more correct in referring to 'logical positivism' or 'logical empiricism'.You seem to be hung up on "other ways of knowing." Logical Positivism does not preclude or deny that other ways of knowing exist or have purpose, but merely are not applicable to the hard sciences. "Your 'broader' ways of knowing has accomplished jack shit in comparison." - don't kid yourself. Law, the arts, religion, anything involving ethics, soft sciences, politics, etc. etc. have all utilized "other ways of knowing", and dare I say, even science in this era of quantum thinking.

Bottom Line. By applauding the subject of this thread you are approving of thought control and the banning of free thought. Organized Atheism does have a history, and it very much includes control of free thought and expression of ideas.

[laconicsax]

30. Uh huh.

After you're done, let me know. I'll try again then.

[humblebum]

31. Uh huh. you have pretty much exhausted it all. your arguments are

nothing but a red herring away from the topic, which is the banning of free thought and expression. Very bad idea.

[laconicsax]

32. As I noted, and you promptly ignored...

The first ad makes no mention of banning religion. It suggests abandoning it as the ancient superstition it is. That's a far cry from banning anything.

[humblebum]

33. And as I noted, I was referring to the 2nd ad. Also, The insinuation that

all of religion is ancient superstition is opinion and nothing more.

[laconicsax]

34. And again you ignore and dismiss.

Taking part in rituals in the hopes that they will influence some cosmic agency in a specific way is superstition regardless of whether it's knocking on wood, prayer, or baptism.

Such superstition is unnecessary, and should be left by the wayside with astrology and human sacrifice.

[humblebum]

35. And you ignore the fact that not everyone by a long shot is of that opinion.

Perhaps organized atheist groups should be banned because they are a threat to free thought.

"Such superstition is unnecessary..." You don't seem to comprehend that these ideas are far from universal or even in the majority, so I can only assume that you are against freedom of thought and ideas.

This argument has been full circle. Bye.

[laconicsax]

37. I know the kind of circle you prefer and it's not my thing.

       
           
       

[cleanhippie]

25. +1

[Silent3]

36. Are you deliberately blurring two different meanings of "tell"?

You can "tell" someone something, as in providing information or an opinion, or you can "tell" as in issuing a command.

Everyone has the right to "tell" others their opinions of other's beliefs, in that first sense of the word "tell".

I haven't viewed either ad yet because I'm at work, but I sincerely doubt that once I see these ads I'll see anything that looks like a command not to believe in God, certainly not in the form of seriously advocating laws banning religion or belief in God.

If someone tells you that smoking is unhealthy or stupid, and you respond, "You have no business telling people not to smoke!", that's just twisting words, it's rhetorical BS. Allowing for a certain amount of dramatic license in advertising, even an ad that outright said, "Don't smoke!", wouldn't truly constitute commanding people not to smoke unless it was delivered as a government edict or a serious call for a legislative ban.

[orpupilofnature57]

3. Escaping Religious Persecution helped build this country ,State Secularism

is how Stalin really took control ,practicing Religion is a right people have died for, as much as the right to be an atheist.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secularism#State_secularism

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

16. .. and then the Puritans persecuted the Quakers....

Charlemagne murdered the pagans and druids who didn't convert.

The first words the Mayan's heard was 'turn from your ungodly ways'.

[orpupilofnature57]

27. Wheres the Mayans ?

[darkstar3]

38. Guess what?

America is a secular nation.

[laconicsax]

39. Horrors!!!

[orpupilofnature57]

40. In operation hell ya ,but it's against the Law to have a Law against it.

Thats how I know I'm in a Democracy.

[darkstar3]

41. That's how you know you're in a SECULAR democracy.

[orpupilofnature57]

42. Touche!

[Meshuga]

8. I'm indifferent...

I don't like nor dislike the ads. People have the right to vent against religion in the same way I don't see why the religious should drop their beliefs. Well, okay... I would add some exceptions to the latter since I wish people wouldn't subscribe to beliefs that will harm others or cause a person to harm him/herself. Either way, I don't buy the "religion can do no right" take or that religion is the cause of all or most conflicts (while it is obviously something that facilitates conflict and it is a component in many conflicts) but I also don't see religion as a prescription for everyone.

People should subscribe to what helps them and makes them happy whether it is a belief that sounds silly to others or something that does not require belief.

[saras]

11. Getting rid of all religion because of the religions of the book...

...is not unlike getting rid of all Germans because of the Nazis.

The end of religion will come when people either

stop having whole classes of experiences that they have sought out and had since pre-humanity,

or

stop being social enough to share their experiences.

The end of mindless, rigid belief is another matter entirely, but it is a problem regardless of content.

[Thats my opinion]

13. Would you find commercials

calling for the banning of atheism offensive? I would! It has been tried historically and resulted in unmitigated horror. Any thought control is tragic--including the stuff behind the fun in these bits--and the silly survey.

[laconicsax]

14. I see you have no opinion on the content itself.

The ads had very different messages. What did you think of the messages of the two ads?

[onager]

21. "...something that's make-believe. Like religion."

:rofl:

If she said that on TV here in One Nation Under Jesus, she'd be burned at the stake. Well, metaphorically at least. Bill Donahue would have to buy another fax machine, Oprah would be jumping up and down on her own couch, and DU's servers would crash from all the whining about strident Gnu Atheists.

Thanks.

On edit - as for the vote, I had to go for "both equally." Maybe the second ad by a nose. Just because it was nice to see one of religion's trump cards, emotion, used against it for a change.

[deacon_sephiroth]

24. gotta go with both

I never met a movement for the progress of humanity I didn't like.

[socialshockwave]

43. delete

derp

[darkstar3]

44. Damn straight.

Glad to know you recognize pole-vaulting over the line.

[socialshockwave]

45. I don't mean to get angry. I really don't.

I just find the climate here is geared towards people approving anti-Christian and anti-religion posts in general. It frustrates me.

[darkstar3]

46. That's because you're not used to seeing your religion criticized openly.

And if you think criticism is "anti-Christian and anti-religion," then I'm sorry but you don't belong in a debate. And I don't mean that cruelly. This forum is dedicated to the discussion of religion from all points of view. If you find one or more of those points of view to be incredibly frustrating, you'll probably find the groups more to your liking, and you certainly won't be able to do anything constructive here.