This is a really interesting read...

[snooper2]

It gives some good insight into why people believe conspiracy theories. I'm about half-way through...

(A window into the brain of a "truther" if you will :) )

Only 344Kbs to download the PDF- 30 or so pages...

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1084585

Abstract:
Many millions of people hold conspiracy theories; they believe that powerful people have worked together in order to withhold the truth about some important practice or some terrible event. A recent example is the belief, widespread in some parts of the world, that the attacks of 9/11 were carried out not by Al Qaeda, but by Israel or the United States. Those who subscribe to conspiracy theories may create serious risks, including risks of violence, and the existence of such theories raises significant challenges for policy and law. The first challenge is to understand the mechanisms by which conspiracy theories prosper; the second challenge is to understand how such theories might be undermined. Such theories typically spread as a result of identifiable cognitive blunders, operating in conjunction with informational and reputational influences. A distinctive feature of conspiracy theories is their self-sealing quality. Conspiracy theorists are not likely to be persuaded by an attempt to dispel their theories; they may even characterize that very attempt as further proof of the conspiracy. Because those who hold conspiracy theories typically suffer from a crippled epistemology, in accordance with which it is rational to hold such theories, the best response consists in cognitive infiltration of extremist groups. Various policy dilemmas, such as the question whether it is better for government to rebut conspiracy theories or to ignore them, are explored in this light.

[whatchamacallit]

1. Uh huh...

Unless I'm missing something, this guy is a law professor not a psychologist. But all I need to know comes from this other lovely little paper of his: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=405940 Definitely a window into the author's brain (and yours). :eyes:

[CJCRANE]

2. Many people *believe* "public myths" propagated by the MSM.

On the other hand, people who are into "conspiracy theories" aren't generally just passive believers, they've formed their own (sometimes wrong) conclusions based on their own (sometimes inadequate) research.

But the difference is that there's some effort involved, doing your own investigation and forming your own opinions isn't the easy way, nor is it comforting as many pseudo-psychologists seem to suggest.

[MrMickeysMom]

3. Many people believe in Sky Beings who were born of a virgin.

... ascending to the sky after a physical death, a process which took three days.

And, there are different versions of this myth, depending on tribal origin or religious practice, too.

[onecent]

6. Amen! Well said MrMickeysMom!!! n/t

[snooper2]

7. Yeah, I never bought into that one either...

I think I was 13 when I finally figured it all out :)

[spooked911]

4. same old bull

but I'm sure, there is no "cognitive infiltration" here, right?

[LARED]

5. None whatsoever.

Believe me I'm telling the truth.

[Kalun D]

8. The OCT pathological liars

When confronted with their lies will only tell more lies to cover them up.

What is so interesting about that?

[AstroDav]

9. It's amazing ....

This may explain the reason why a few people think I'm the most dangerous person in the universe.

I'm a perpetual 32d degree Scottish Rite Mason, life member of a college-based secret society, and also served over 13 years in the military, holding a top secret clearance as a COMSEC Custodian. All that stuff most definitely ties me in to being part of the "secret system", according to some things I've heard.

I've always wonder why I don't have any friends except for my 5 daughters. I always thought it was just because I simply have no time for a social life, being instead tied down at home helping to raise all those brats.

But NOW I know that my whole life since about age 19 has been a mirage. I have no friends because no one trusts me, being as I'm all elite & connected & all that stuff.

WOW! My life is explained to me now. I have been enlightened. Can't wait to tell my wife when she gets home from work at the new school she's helping build. She's an electronics engineer working for a company that puts room monitoring systems in schools. Some of that involves surveillance cameras, which we thought were just for stuff like catching bullies, preventing fights, & taking pictures of burglars if the school happened to be broken into.

But now I know that she also is part of the system. Those cameras are really for spying on the kids, picking out ones which aren't conforming to expectations, so they can be reassigned to behaviour modification classes. Sure don't want THAT kind to grow up having their own thoughts about how society is suppose to operate. Catch'em young & change'em quick & they'll grow up to be easily manageable citizens.

I learned so much from watching this that I didn't know, about myself & how life around me REALLY is. Cool!! :) :)

[BeFree]

10. I see the light.!!

Bush was a-ok for America and he never did anything bad?

He never conspired against us. The idea in my head that he did wrong, is wrong because it posed a challenge to him and that was a mistake?

BZZZZZZT!!

Snooper, tell your OP friend he can blow it out his ass, ok?

[SDuderstadt]

11. Dude...

no one has said that "Bush was A-okay for America and he never did anything bad".

More of your dishonest reframing.

[BeFree]

12. No one?

Are you absolutely daft?

Many GOPers have been saying just that.

I guess, in your effort to follow me around and make snarky comments every time I post, you are blinded?

[SDuderstadt]

13. Dude....

have you found a single person HERE saying anything to that effect?

Hint: no. You keep pretending that people here who disagree with you on the facts are sub rosa Bush supporters. Duh.

[BeFree]

14. Here?

They've all been tombstoned, duh.

You keep pretending people here who disagree with you are goofy.

Out here in the real world, yes, people who disagree with me as broadly as you do, here in the dungeon, are bushlickers. Fuck them.

You must be ok or you wouldn't be here. So, I gladly accept the mods' judgment.

[SDuderstadt]

15. "You keep pretending people here who disagree with you are goofy"

Absolutely false. I have never once called or implied that a single person here was goofy, as opposed to advocating things that are goofy. Do you understand the difference?

As for the rest of your disjointed post, are you really trying to portray me as a "bushlicker", yet once more? If so, you're up to your old tricks again. It must be wonderful to see the world in such a black and white fashion.

Dude, you seriously need to stop inferring I'm some sort of Bush lackey who's managed to "fly under the radar" here or is otherwise tolerated by the moderators, okay?

[BeFree]

16. The difference is

I posted a reply to the OP. Nothing personal, except a request of the OPer to send a message to his source.

Then here you come.... getting all personal and shit.

[SDuderstadt]

17. Dude...

Cass Sunnstein is no fan of Bush and, in fact, is currently part of the Obama administration. Have you read any of his books? Wait, I just answered my own question.

You going off half-cocked, in your typical "shoot first, ask questions later" is far more the problem than Cass Sunnstein.

Don't you have to go off and "hound Bushco" or something? Wouldn't that be a more productive use of your time than blindly labeling fellow liberals "Bushlickers" (no matter how indirectly), then retreating into your "who, me?" mode?

[BeFree]

18. Dud's logic?

If someone is a member of the Obama administration he should be followed without question?

[SDuderstadt]

19. Another dishonest reframing from you, dude...

I never, ever said he should be "followed without question".

And, my name is not "dud". People can call me "dude", if they want to. That would be "Mr. dude" to you.

[BeFree]

20. Oh?

Methinks that the OP is part of a dishonest framing of the current situation of politics. Especially in light of the recent comments from the WH press secretary, Gibbs.

For some reason, the people who question the Obama administration with the best regards for democracy are being made to look bad, instead of the real enemies like bushco and the teabaggers.

[SDuderstadt]

21. You didn't even know Sunstein...

was part of the administration and the OP is aimed at conspiracy theorists, not mere critics of the administration, dude.

[BeFree]

22. So?

Instead of professing to establish the truth, he seems to profess more covert government control.

Who else thinks CTers are a real danger?

If the OCT has any truth to it, and we see these elite fellows thinking CTers are the real danger, then is it any wonder the 19 assholes did what they are alleged to have done because the government was chasing after the wrong people?

IOW, was it CTers who flew the planes? Did they start wars? Did they crash the economy?

[SDuderstadt]

23. How about conspiracy theories that claim...

the Jews did it, dude?

I'm willing to bet you haven't read his paper and I'm certain you've never read any of his books.

Just more of the BeFree "shoot first, ask questions later" approach.

[BeFree]

24. What about that theory?

What do you know? I never considered it really. Bushco did it, afaict.

I do know that in the summer of 2001, the FBI was issuing alerts that environmentalists were a BIG danger.

Methinks too many people, instead of looking at the real enemies - like bushco -- end up chasing after those dangerous environmentalists. How sick is that?

[BeFree]

26. Here's a recent event

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4499183&mesg_id=4499183

Seems the government tried to hide the facts about the Gulf spill.

What's Cass doing now? Is he trying to keep this CT down?

[IScreamSundays]

27. Sunstein, a hero of yours

snip>
Sunstein advocates that the Government's stealth infiltration should be accomplished by sending covert agents into "chat rooms, online social networks, or even real-space groups." He also proposes that the Government make secret payments to so-called "independent" credible voices to bolster the Government's messaging (on the ground that those who don't believe government sources will be more inclined to listen to those who appear independent while secretly acting on behalf of the Government). This program would target those advocating false "conspiracy theories," which they define to mean: "an attempt to explain an event or practice by reference to the machinations of powerful people, who have also managed to conceal their role." Sunstein's 2008 paper was flagged by this blogger, and then amplified in an excellent report by Raw Story's Daniel Tencer.


snip>

Initially, note how similar Sunstein's proposal is to multiple, controversial stealth efforts by the Bush administration to secretly influence and shape our political debates. The Bush Pentagon employed teams of former Generals to pose as "independent analysts" in the media while secretly coordinating their talking points and messaging about wars and detention policies with the Pentagon. Bush officials secretly paid supposedly "independent" voices, such as Armstrong Williams and Maggie Gallagher, to advocate pro-Bush policies while failing to disclose their contracts. In Iraq, the Bush Pentagon hired a company, Lincoln Park, which paid newspapers to plant pro-U.S. articles while pretending it came from Iraqi citizens. In response to all of this, Democrats typically accused the Bush administration of engaging in government-sponsored propaganda -- and when it was done domestically, suggested this was illegal propaganda. Indeed, there is a very strong case to make that what Sunstein is advocating is itself illegal under long-standing statutes prohibiting government "propaganda" within the U.S., aimed at American citizens:

snip>

What is most odious and revealing about Sunstein's worldview is his condescending, self-loving belief that "false conspiracy theories" are largely the province of fringe, ignorant Internet masses and the Muslim world. That, he claims, is where these conspiracy theories thrive most vibrantly, and he focuses on various 9/11 theories -- both domestically and in Muslim countries -- as his prime example.

It's certainly true that one can easily find irrational conspiracy theories in those venues, but some of the most destructive "false conspiracy theories" have emanated from the very entity Sunstein wants to endow with covert propaganda power: namely, the U.S. Government itself, along with its elite media defenders. Moreover, "crazy conspiracy theorist" has long been the favorite epithet of those same parties to discredit people trying to expose elite wrongdoing and corruption.

snip>

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/01/15/sunstein/index.html

[SDuderstadt]

28. It's pretty stupid to...

claim Sunstein is my "hero".

Since you brought it up, who's your hero?

[snooper2]

48. your response to the OP makes very little sense..

Did you read more than three lines of what I posted? Did you click the little linky and read say, at least the first few pages?

Message to my "source"...Okay So I'm supposed to track the guy down who wrote the paper and give him a message from a random person one the intertubes. Really? I would love to see how your brain operates sometimes.

[BeFree]

49. Satire?

Do you get that?

It would be nice if your mind worked at all.

(sorry 'bout that, but if you can dish it out, you should be able to take it, right?)

[snooper2]

50. Oh, guess that you need a couple more classes then....

My cat can do better than that, and he can't even write. -yet :)

So did you read the paper yet?

[BeFree]

51. Why should I read it?

I don't read trashy crap like that.

I know that there are some in government that are afraid of the people finding the truth.

Like the real Zappa says:

"The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way, and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theatre."
— Frank Zappa

[snooper2]

52. I don't know, maybe it would provide some Introspection ?

you could have been half done by now but you are spending time reading my posts..






and looking at....





















This








.

(dot)

.


(dot)






























scroll....




















































scroll...





















































































beer! :toast:

































:bounce:

Now see, that's another paragraph right there :rofl:

[MinM]

25. He's full of crap, but his wife is sharp...

Reply to Cass Sunstein and Adrian Vermeule

[defendandprotect]

54. Why does she look familiar? And thanks for the Cyril Wecht report on this nonsense....

Agree this is unbelievable ....

Officially sanctioned government counterspeech "to discredit conspiracy theories'; the hiring of "credible private parties to engage in counterspeech"; the official banning of conspiracy theorizing; the imposition of "some kind of tax, financial or otherwise, on those who disseminate such theories;" etc.

Unbelievable!

and it is the thinking of those more concerned with cover up than with valid investigation!

Suppression of questions and challenges rather than welcoming free speech which is an

obvious danger to them.

[whatchamacallit]

29. The douche-bag who wrote this is an authoritarian loser

Fans and defenders reveal much about their true allegiances...

[SDuderstadt]

30. It's beyond stupid to...

try to label Cass Sunnstein an "authoritarian". Have you ever read his book, "Radicals in Robes: Why Extreme Right Wing Courts are Wrong for America"?

Stupid post.

[whatchamacallit]

31. No yours is a stupid post

stupid as fuck really. I haven't read the book you mention, but I've read enough from him to form an opinion. Rabid authoritarians are easy to spot. I see you dude.

[SDuderstadt]

32. Whatchamacallit "logic"

sduderstadt, a lifelong ACLU member, is a "rabid authoritarian".

Jesus, you're a hoot.

[whatchamacallit]

34. Well... you can claim anything you like in a chat room

we only really know you by your posts. nuff said.

[SDuderstadt]

36. Oh, really, dude?

and which of my posts, precisely, lead you to the conclusion that I am a "rabid authoritarian"?

Please be specific. Take your time.

[whatchamacallit]

37. Pretty much

all of them. Foam on...

[SDuderstadt]

38. Jesus...

the old stand-by, (paraphrasing) "there are so many of them, I can't point to just one".
I asked you to point to a single post that would lead you to conclude I'm some sort of "rabid authoritarian", but you can't. Another stupid post from you.

[whatchamacallit]

39. You know sdude

This is why you're not taken seriously around here

[SDuderstadt]

40. I see you still can't point to a single post that...

would lead anyone to conclude that I'm a "rabid authoritarian".

Maybe you should stop slinging stupid, offensive labels around, dude.

[whatchamacallit]

41. Maybe when you stop referring to anyone who is skeptical of the government's bullshit

as an idiot or a loon (in one form of speech or another).

[SDuderstadt]

42. I have NEVER referred to a "truther"...

as an "idiot" or a "loon", dude. You're just making shit up again.

And, even if I did, as long as I did so on the basis of the utter lack of evidence, as opposed to a blind loyalty to "government", that wouldn't make me a "rabid authoritarian", dude.

You just stepped on your dick again.

[whatchamacallit]

43. At least it's long enough to step on

You may not have used those exact words, but get real, you insinuate it with virtually every post. It's futile to deny it, it appears to be your life's work. You can also deny that you're not an authoritarian, but your pathology - derived from your incessant behavior - betrays you.

[SDuderstadt]

44. "You can also deny that you're not an authoritarian"

You're absolutely right, dude. I don't "deny that I'm not an authoritarian" (your exact words). Thanks for clearing that up. I hope now that you'll drop the silly false accusations.

Maybe a writing class would help.

In the meantime, I can't speak for everyone, but I know a number of us do so look forward to your next visit, with one of your typical sputtering, juvenile rants, in which you spray the room with ad hominems. I know I can hardly wait, dude.

[whatchamacallit]

45. Ha it was my edit that fucked that up :P

Whatever dude... sure I show up now and then and stir the pot, but you're in here hosing the place down every day. So really who's the juvenile?

[SDuderstadt]

46. You are...

duh.

[greyl]

33. Ad hominem. Try again, this time trying harder to make a valid point. nt

[whatchamacallit]

35. My point is

that guy's a douche. But if he floats your boat so be it. It takes all kinds.

[mrarundale]

47. The best part is where the authors say:

Sunstein co-authored a 2008 paper with Adrian Vermeule, titled Conspiracy Theories, in which they wrote, "The existence of both domestic and foreign conspiracy theories, we suggest, is no trivial matter, posing real risks to the government’s antiterrorism policies, whatever the latter may be." They go on to propose that,""the best response consists in cognitive infiltration of extremist groups",<22> where they suggest, among other tactics, Government agents (and their allies) might enter chat rooms, online social networks, or even real-space groups and attempt to undermine percolating conspiracy theories by raising doubts about their factual premises, causal logic or implications for political action."<22> (from wikipedia which sources the paper)

also see Salon:
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/01/15/sunstein

GOSH do you think that could REALLY HAPPEN???? Aren't government infiltrators a CONSPIRACY THEORY???


His (third) wife works for the National Security Council...

Sunstein also suported the appointment of military commissions by GWBush without congressional approval


Sometimes I think people just make this shit up because they know no one is paying attention....

[defendandprotect]

53. Well, thanks -- obviously that explains "Watergate" and "Huston Plan" ... CIA coups . . . .

"Operation Northwoods" -- "Mockingbird" -- "Operation Gladio" -- "Operation Paperclip" --

Attempts by the right wing/elites to kill FDR as reported in the USHR investigation --


Slavery in America -- and another 100 years of Segregation, Inc. --

Oppression of women all over the world -- and the spreading of intolerance and hatred

for homosexuals by organized patriarchal religions!

Capitalism, itself, is only for the good of the many -- and don't dare question that!!

:evilgrin: