Torture Memos

[BeFree]

Seems like a conspiracy to go around established laws and treaties.

These guys actually conspired to make torture legal.

And they are gonna get away with it.

[BeFree]

1. They said the president could.....

Report: Bush Lawyer Said President Could Order Civilians to Be 'Massacred'

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7756808

[BeFree]

39. CIAs "Supposed" Briefing Of Congress On Torture-Outright Fabrications!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7936211&mesg_id=7936211


CIA Has No Idea What It Briefed Congress on Torture
By: emptywheel Tuesday March 16, 2010 1:30 pm

The CIA documents released in the latest FOIA batch prove that all the claims that CIA (and Crazy Pete Hoekstra) have made about briefings Congress received on torture are, at best, reconstructions based on years old memories, if not outright fabrications.

The documents appear to have been a summary of torture briefings CIA Office of Congressional Affairs put together on July 11, 2004 in anticipation of CIA’s Congressional briefing in July 2004.

More at link

[BeFree]

40. Wilkerson's Sworn Declaraton:"I Served An Admin That Tortured/Abused Innocent For Political Reasons"

DU thread here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8121011&mesg_id=8121011

Wilkerson was Colin Powell's aide. He has been on the news a lot and is a well respected officer. It is good to see some officers taking responsibility, eh?

[noise]

41. We have a very bad situation here

Torture was justified on the basis that crucial information could be attained from detainees to prevent follow up attacks. Yet more and more we are learning the torture did no such thing.

[BeFree]

42. Looks like it was torture...

... just so they could say they did it.

Yep, the same bastards could have done just about anything, even 9/11.
They have proved they don't give a damn about anyone but themselves.

[BeFree]

43. Porter Goss, co-chair of the House Ethics Office LAUGHED about the CIA tape destruction.

C.I.A. Document Details Destruction of Tapes

WASHINGTON — Porter J. Goss, (PG) the former director of the Central Intelligence Agency, in 2005 approved of the decision by one of his top aides to destroy dozens of videotapes documenting the brutal interrogation of two detainees, according to an internal C.I.A. document released Thursday.

Shortly after the tapes were destroyed at the order of Jose A. Rodriguez Jr., then the head of the C.I.A.’s clandestine service, Mr. Goss told Mr. Rodriguez that he “agreed” with the decision, according to the document. He even joked after Mr. Rodriguez offered to “take the heat” for destroying the tapes.

“PG laughed and said that actually, it would be he, PG, who would take the heat,” according to one of the document, an internal C.I.A. e-mail message.


DU thread link:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8161067&mesg_id=8161067

[Bolo Boffin]

44. Actually he laughed at the idea of anyone but him getting the heat for tape destruction. n/t

[BeFree]

45. Right-O

He laughed and laughed and laughed.
He knew he broke the law and he laughed and laughed and laughed.

Real fucking funny, eh?

[Bolo Boffin]

46. If ever I meet Porter Goss, I'll let him know about his tacky sense of humor.

Since I'm talking to you, I'll let you know about your fudging of the facts.

[noise]

2. A key point that 9/11 debunkers like to dismiss in their self righteousness

The same officials were involved in the bizarre pre-9/11 conduct and post 9/11 torture program advocacy. To date, we don't know why they acted as they did before 9/11 because they have exploited national security classification laws to keep the public ignorant. The declassified information about the torture program indicates that it was a premeditated program based on ulterior motives as opposed to a desperate, last resort effort.

Note: Expressing such views in no way makes one "soft on terror" or "seditious" or "an al Qaeda sympathizer" or "unAmerican" or "a conspiracy nut." Rather it means that one is not an authoritarian follower who equates patriotism with unquestioning devotion to the government.

If al Qaeda was truly the enemy we have been led to believe then why did the CIA protect two al Qaeda operatives linked to previous al Qaeda attacks? It's been over eight years and we can't get anyone to answer this obvious question.

[Bolo Boffin]

4. Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit.

No one here dismisses the torture policies of the Bush Adminstration. Tell that to yourself if you need to maintain your silly little illusions about us, but don't you dare repeat that trash out loud.

Is that clear, noise?

[noise]

5. You are twisting my words

The key point is that the pre-9/11 conduct of the torture policy advocates has never been explained.

[Bolo Boffin]

6. It's your plain goddamned words in your fucking title - I'm twisting nothing.

Play your stupid little games on your own time, but when you accuse 9/11 debunkers of dismissing torture out loud, your bullshit is going to get called out for what it is.

Man up and take responsibility for your words, noise.

[noise]

7. Your comments on this:

The same officials were involved in the bizarre pre-9/11 conduct and post 9/11 torture program advocacy.

Coincidence?

[Bolo Boffin]

12. Apologize for your heinous accusation. n/t

[noise]

14. Why not alert the moderators?

That way my "offensive" post can be deleted.

Do you even have an opinion on the motive for the torture program? I understand that you are opposed to torture. I would guess everybody on DU is too. Was it a premeditated program? Was it an overreaction by the Bush administration who wanted to prove they were "tough on terror?" Did they buy into the CIA narrative which suggested that legal interrogation methods were not working? Did they watch too much 24?

Are citizens permitted to make associations between the pre-9/11 conduct and the post 9/11 claims that police state tactics were required to prevent follow up attacks? Or should we pretend that there was nothing off about the pre-9/11 conduct?

I assume you realize that some journalists refuse to question the pre-9/11 conduct and thus conclude that the torture was a panicked, good faith effort to prevent follow up attacks.

[Bolo Boffin]

15. Why not apologize for your bullshit accusations?

You are unrepentant, that's why. You know what you were saying and you meant to slander every debunker here by not only associating with torture but helping to cover it up.

Goodbye, noise.

[Ghost in the Machine]

28. I don't know which is worse: your pathetic authoritarian poutrage here..

"No one here dismisses the torture policies of the Bush Adminstration. Tell that to yourself if you need to maintain your silly little illusions about us, but don't you dare repeat that trash out loud.

Is that clear, noise?"

Which sounds more like someone getting scolded by Sponge Bob, or your closeted, repressed fundie trying to break out here:

"You are unrepentant, that's why."


You're really losing it, dude.. maybe you should take a break and catch your breath for a while...

just sayin'....


Ghost

[greyl]

21. I think his key point refers to something in his post, not the OP or "torture policies". nt

[noise]

22. Mock outrage

is a good tactic to distract from the issue at hand.

The real outrage is the government secrecy, the cover up, the false justifications for using torture, the fearmongering, etc.

[greyl]

24. I wouldn't cynically describe it as "mock", just mistaken. nt

[Bolo Boffin]

25. So at best, he's a sloppy writer blaming me for his communication problem.

I think noise was quite aware of the implications of his or her words. It's all he or she ever does down here, make sinister insinuations about a group of posters.

No worries. Another day, another troll finds his way to my rear view mirror.

[BeFree]

3. Kerik Gets 4 years

The NYPD Commissioner on 9/11 goes to jail.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=4273996

A known criminal who was asked by bush to head Homeland Security.
Gee, ya think he might have conspired before 9/11, or just afterwords?

[Flatulo]

8. Did you just post this in the OP?

> And they are gonna get away with it

[BeFree]

9. What happened?

Did that go over your head? You don't understand? What's your beef?

[Ghost in the Machine]

23. Did Kerik have anything to do with the torture memos??

:shrug:

[KDLarsen]

10. Whoa..

Dubya & friends must have some serious persuation powers.

I mean, Kerik could have walked off free, if he brokered a deal and told the DA just a hint of what he apparently know about 9/11.

Instead, he takes 4 years in jail.

[BeFree]

11. Petraeus Takes On Cheneyism

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=190899&mesg_id=190899

The general is against cheney's torture program

[BeFree]

13. October surprise thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1450222

From our good friend Octafish

[defendandprotect]

17. Is Consortium News still around? October Surprise . . . another GOP election steal...

[defendandprotect]

16. Also the MILITARY law bans torture . . . and they are going to get away with it--!!!

Yoo and Gonzales should be in jail --

in a cell next to Cheney and Bush -- !!!

9/11 MIHOP --

[BeFree]

18. List of suicides thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=203767&mesg_id=203767

[BeFree]

19. Govt. Poisoned 10,000 people.? 1933

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7773636&mesg_id=7773636

[Ohio Joe]

20. Yes, they did

They also left evidence.

[Neily]

26. When did profanity become acceptable on these forums? n/t

[greyl]

27. 1st day. nt

[SidDithers]

30. It's how adults sometimes speak...

the kiddy table is over there------->

Sid

[Neily]

32. Last time I checked...

profanity was used by those who do not have a decent enough grasp of the English language, that they must resort to profanity to express themselves...

Sounds to me like the kiddie table is up above ^^

[SidDithers]

33. That's what parents tell their kids to keep them from saying bad words...

In the adult world, there is wonderful depth and breadth to the English Language, including expletives. I choose to use all of it, while you seem to be content with just 95% of it.

Sid

[AZCat]

34. That's rather ignorant.

I think whatever source you "checked" last time is inadequate, since literature is rife with contrary examples.

[Neily]

35. Sorry you didn't get the sarcasm

dripping from my tongue...

I was just amused when I came in the other day and saw several subject lines full of it.

Had I known it was allowed here... a few of my previous posts would have been very colorful... lol

[BeFree]

29. CIA Breifed congress about torture. LBN thread...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4281566&mesg_id=4281566

[Ohio Joe]

31. So...

There does not seem to be any torture deniers here, is there some point you are trying to make or is this simply a "conspiracies exists so 9/11 was an inside job" type of thread?

Just curious.

[BeFree]

36. Missing Torture emails...thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7807293&mesg_id=7807293

[BeFree]

37. Can emails be destroyed?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7807211&mesg_id=7807211

[BeFree]

38. Torture Documents lost... thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7818235&mesg_id=7818235