70% of Sderot kids traumatized

[oberliner]

Shaked and Maor Harush, 11-year-old twins from Sderot, saw a Qassam rocket explode a few feet away for them, setting a car ablaze. Since then, fear has become an everyday presence in their lives.

Shaked suffers from the worst of the trauma. She refuses to leave home without her parents. A slamming door makes her jump. Any conversation about the security situation is out of the question when Shaked is around, and her family knows to avoid words like Qassam and Color Red altogether.

Shaked's young cousin, who lives in the center of the country, was not aware of this little detail. While the two were playing in the yard recently, he yelled out "Color Red, Color Red," sending Shaked running into the house. She locked herself in her room and could not stop crying.

"Her cousin didn't think of it, he didn't know, but Shaked took it hard," her father said. "She is in bad shape. She suffers from anxiety all the time."

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4093281,00.html

[Ozymanithrax]

1. Living under terror, no matter who administers the terror,

shatters the lives of the victims.

[LeftishBrit]

7. Very true. And very sad.

[TomClash]

2. Gaza children send messages to Sderot on kites

Published Tuesday 28/06/2011 (updated) 02/07/2011 09:57

GAZA CITY (Ma'an) -- Children in Gaza released kites on Tuesday carrying messages to residents of Sderot across the border in Israel.

The kites carried messages urging Israel to end its siege of Gaza.

Fourteen-year-old Einas Naim told Ma'an she hoped residents of Sderot would understand the messages.

"I came to send messages to the residents of the neighboring Israeli towns telling them Palestinian children have the right to live in safety like others.

"We hope we can live safely and freely because it is our right to enjoy life free of missiles, bombardment and destruction.

"We fear to go to school in the morning because when we wake up we hear noise of tank shells and missiles fired by Israel forces whenever they want," she said.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=400737

[AverageJoe90]

4. Unfortunately, I don't believe that will end........

Until both sides learn to stop the bullshit, ESPECIALLY Hamas, who keep PURPOSEFULLY firing rockets at Israeli CIVILIANS, mind you(Hamas first, then Israel.).

[TomClash]

5. Read some history of the Conflict and you may have a better view nt

[AverageJoe90]

10. I did at one point, and thought I understood what was going on.......

But I was wrong. Hamas was MUCH more responsible for all the bloodshed in Gaza than I first thought.

[TomClash]

11. I meant the history going back to the Mandatory

And then the creation of Israel. It will be a real revelation for you.

Don't even bother reading Palestinian works like Khalidi or Massad. Just read the works of brave, leftist, Jewish historians - including many Israelis - who have done much to shed light upon the injustice done to the Palestinian people. Many have done so at great cost to their careers and lives.

To blame Hamas is to miss almost all of the story; it is like watching the credits at the end of a movie and thinking you've seen and understood the film.

[shira]

12. So what's the solution? One state? n/t

[AverageJoe90]

13. I read about that stuff, too.

And once again, I thought I understood everything. But that was before I knew, truly knew that is, about the hijacking of the Palestinian national movement by Islamist such as the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem(a real monster, btw.), or that Zionism didn't start with the Betarim and that originally, in fact, many of the first Zionists were leftist socialists, and/or democrats.

And before you say anything else, I didn't blame Hamas entirely; the Israeli military hasn't been entirely innocent, either.

[TomClash]

15. Really?

What did you read?

Who's land is it anyway?

[AverageJoe90]

17. One particular site I really liked back in the day.........

.....was IfAmericansKnew.org. In fact, that was what got me started in the Pro-Palestinian advocacy field in the first place?

And if you want my opinion on who that land really belongs to, my answer is QUITE simple:
Both the Palestinians, AND the Jewish people. Neither group has exclusive ownership of what we call the 'Holy Land'.

[TomClash]

18. I would agree with your last statement

Except one People has a State.

[pelsar]

19. just a notation....

most zionists remain leftist/socialists/democrats...hence israel is primarily a secular country with universal health care (been lurching to the right economically recently), etc. The settlers make a lot noise and trouble, and are trying very hard to redefine zionism, but israel remains secular and democratic.

btw, thats impressive to read beyond the "ifamericansonlyknew" and to do your own research....

[Shaktimaan]

20. of course...

just read the select historians who offer a specific narrative that you support, right?

I mean really, is it so impossible for you to imagine that there are people out there who have read about the history of this convoluted conflict and come to a different viewpoint than your own?

But to speak more directly to your point, I fail to see how anyone can look at the current situation and absolve Hamas of any guilt. Does the history of the conflict somehow warrant their policies or actions over the past 2 decades?

[TomClash]

21. What an insult

Great leading question. Yes, I only read and follow whatever supports my own view, "counsel." :eyes:

Maybe, just maybe, "the select historians" are not nearly read as often by Americans as other historians who wave the Israeli flag. Maybe, just maybe, taking my post in the context of the conversation was warranted. I don't have to imagine anything - it is obviously implied even from reading my post alone that there is "scholarship" with a conflicting view.

Actually, my point had nothing to do with Hamas. I grow tired of having to denounce Hamas again and again and again to appease otherwise good people who support policies that result in the routine killing of innocents and who cheer a state born through the use of very same terrorist tactic. The Required Denunciation has become a propaganda tool, just like denouncing the PLO was a propaganda tool many years ago.

[Arctic Dave]

3. Imagine what kids in Iraq, Afghanistan, Sudan, Pakistan, ...

[shira]

6. Where's the UNHRC, Amnesty, HRW? Oh yeah, these aren't Palestinian kids in the territories....

....being traumatized by the right villains.

Therefore, they don't count.

Only Palestinian kids traumatized by Israeli forces count. Not to be confused, however, with Palestinian kids traumatized by Lebanese, Gazan, or W.Bank authorities, because they don't count either.

Victims don't matter. It only matters who the alleged oppressors are.

[LeftishBrit]

8. As a matter of fact...

in 2007, Amnesty International was already pointing out the effects of violence on the civilians in BOTH Sderot AND Gaza:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:-jDzB8aOLhAJ:www.amnestyusa.org/document.php%3Flang%3De%26id%3DENGMDE150402007+amnesty+international+sderot&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.com


And here's a detailed report on this very subject from HRW:


http://www.hrw.org/en/node/84867/section/7

I agree that one could look for a long time for anything from the UNHRC.

In any case, we should be concerned about all children damaged by war and violence; it is not a competition.

[shira]

9. I agree all children count equally, but you had to go back 2 years or 4 years ago...

You proved my point. Think you need to go back 2 or 4 years to find similar reports on Palestinian children?

:eyes:

I don't doubt for a moment those groups pay as little lip service as they can to Israeli children, however most of their focus is without question on kids previously mentioned in my last post, and it's for political reasons.

So much for universal human rights... It's more like human rights posers who advocate for what Hamas says are human rights violations. Right wing advocacy, gotta love it!!!

[AverageJoe90]

14. I'll never be able to understand why......

....people would support Hamas in the first place if they know their history. I think that many of the pro-Palestinian people who do, have been genuinely fooled by a very slick propaganda campaign. Although it can go without saying there certainly are a few people who truly are anti-Semitic.

[pelsar]

22. no joe...its not a matter of them "being fooled"

its a bit more complicated than that, I can give you my understanding, but if your really interested in how hamas actually fits in to the western democratic pro Palestinian movement you'll have to ask others.

As i see it, those that know who hamas is and what they represent pretty much ignore them, pretend they don't have a future or influence...i.e. they are not really part of the Palestinian struggle. So even if hamas is involved in something (for instance the dutch journalist, Hasna El Maroudi left the flotilla, when she suspected hamas was a participant/organizer), you will find that most either deny the possibility or consider it irrelevant, since the "cause" is far more important. This leads one to a very unprincipled "the ends justifies the means" kind of thing...which then makes it far easier for western left idealists to protest with hamas at pro Palestinian rallys, or when the westerners join Palestinians in protesting israel in the westbank, they're briefed to keep their western civil ideas to themselves...(ignore the PA's. anti women, anti civil rights anti freedom policies and indirectly support their anti democratic govt)....because its "for the cause."

This last flotilla is also a good example of that viewpoint; the flotilla attempt to break the blockade was political, the idea is to give the gazans freedom to import/export travel without israel or egypt permission. All in all a nice idea. What their supporters must overlook that had it been successful, the real consequences would be that hamas gets politically/militarily and economically strengthened by such a change, which is not good for average gazan...those very real consequences however are of little concern to the western pro Palestinians. In fact those very real consequences were/must be dismissed as not relevant, which brings us to the final reason:

Hamas is also seen as a temporary "player" one day after the occupation is gone, there will be a revolution for a democracy, hence its ok to work with them now, for the greater cause. The only problem with that theory is that the worlds history of revolutions shows that the possibility of that happening is very very low and its more likly that hamas like iran and syria and saudi arabia, will simply dig in deeper (thanks to their friends who helped them).....but that has nothing to do reality, once someone believes in something, its hard to let go.

bottom line? the ends justifies the means..."
---
thats my understanding...ask others for various other viewpoints.....

[shira]

23. I agree with Pelsar but I believe those siding with Hamas/PLO goals and aims are...

...themselves Rightwingers in favor of a fascist agenda.

Leftwing socialists are supposed to have zero in common with Iranian influenced, reactionary theocratic dictatorships but what do we see here in the I/P conflict? There's very warm, friendly cooperation between the 2 groups to advance an extreme Rightwing fascist agenda vs. a liberal, socialist secular state like Israel. Moreover, the Leftwing socialists involved hate to condemn or criticize Hamas/PLO for their civil and human rights violations against Palestinians, which amounts to support for reactionary theocratic fascism in my book - and not support for Palestinians in general. In fact, the fact they refuse to criticize Hamas/PLO against Palestinians proves to me these people loathe Palestinians and only see them as political pawns. This all makes sense for those who are Rightwing supporters of the PLO/Hamas and that's why I believe those saying they're Leftwingers who advocate in this manner are in reality Rightwingers who are ideologically more extreme than most Israeli settlers whose views are nowhere near as bad.

Think Stalin/Hitler pact of 1939. How does a Leftwing socialist justify such a thing? Same dynamic at work here. And yes, both Stalin and Hitler shared a hatred for liberals and jews while using their own people as political pawns...

[shira]

24. Joe, here's more evidence the supposedly pro-Palestinian "Left" supports Rightwingery...

Why the Left shouldn’t take boycott law to the High Court
http://972mag.com/skip-the-court-system/

See, it's not enough to support the Rightwing fascists of Hamas and the PLO, but it's also good to just let the Israeli Rightwingers in charge have their way without opposition.

:eyes:

I wonder which rightwing groups (besides Hamas, etc) fund these bozos?

[Violet_Crumble]

16. Totally agree that its not a competition n/t