Man Shoots Gun at Dog - Goes From Being a Lawful Gun Owner to a Criminal

[mikeb302000]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/10/dog-shot-child-abuse-conviction.html">The Los Angeles Times reports wrongly that the shooter was guilty of child abuse. That charge was dismissed.

Carleton Raye States, 31, also was convicted of discharging a firearm with gross negligence and having a concealed weapon, according to the Los Angeles County district attorney’s office. Jurors deliberated for just more than a day.

On May 25, the girl was playing outside her home with her female terrier named Smalls when States began to provoke the dog, prosecutors said. The dog started barking, and States pulled out a gun. The girl ran inside her home as States fired a shot at the dog.

This is a perfect example of what I call the hidden criminals who own guns.The question of how many there are among the law-abiding gun owners is in dispute, but they're there.

What's your opinion? Please leave a comment.
http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/">(cross posted at Mikeb302000)

[the other one]

1. With great power comes great responsiblity.

[Glassunion]

2. Holy shit... The system worked.

Broke laws, get a trial, get convicted, get sentenced up to 17 years.

What's the problem?

[friendly_iconoclast]

4. King Mike likes to pretend *all* gun owners are just one too many cups of coffee away from snapping

These posts are a ploy to help him feel better about about his own gun crimes.- They're not very convincing to those that
realize that 'anecdote' is not a synonym for 'statistical data'...

[mikeb302000]

28. I don't say all of you are on the brink of snapping

What I do say is some of you are and it's hard to see it coming. Stricter requirements for gun ownership would screen some of the problem cases out. The "hidden criminals" among gun owners are a big problem.

What's your suggestion? We do nothing lest any attempt to improve the situation would inconvenience you?

[GreenStormCloud]

38. Freedom has costs. Some will abuse the freedom.

However, the cost of not being free is greater.

In the world that you desire, people are defenseless against crime. In your world the weak are at the mercy of the strong. In my world, the weak can defend themselves from violent criminals.

[rl6214]

53. YOU are one of those "hidden criminals"

So what's your solution to what you did?

[gravity556]

59. Well, first we need to arrest those who boast about being illegal gun owners

Like you. You are part and parcel of the problem. You, for some strange reason, think that you should escape punishment for your crimes, but mete out punishments for others? You are a hypocrite. As well as being completely ignorant as to current gun laws. Tell me, Oh Oracle of Fertilizer and Malarky, what existing gun law would have stopped this guy? It's already illegal for him to carry in CA, I'm guessing that someone with his mental stability has already picked up a felony or two that DQ him from ANY firearms ownership ANYWHERE for ANY purpose, so making it illegal for him to have a gun obviously didn't work. It's already a felony to discharge a firearm in city limits, the only exclusionary defense being self defense, so that one didn't work. I know for sure that it's illegal to enter someone else's home and point a gun at a little girl holding a dog. Hell, you don't even have to do that gun pointed at the girl and dog-that's just extra charges.

So tell us, oh Visionary, look hard through your glass bellybutton and tell us, what would have stopped this act of individual terrorism? Another law? I dunno, it doesn't look like they've done much to help so far. Remove everyone's thumbs and trigger fingers at birth? Then they couldn't hold or shoot a gun. Does seem a bit drastic to punish everyone for the eventual actions of a few nutbars. And we all know that you would be first in line to help end all human cruelty and murder everywhere, right?

Think maybe an armed neighbor in a neighborhood where you don't get murdered for "seeing" anything go down might have helped? Not to mention saved CA, what, 40k a year for the next 17-20 years? And for the record, even in California, coming to the aid of someone that you fear is about to come into grave danger of serious bodily harm or death is legal. Pointing a gun at a little girl is doing something that can and should get you shot. A cop will tell you the same thing.

[GKirk]

61. Nows your chance...

"Stricter requirements for gun ownership would screen some of the problem cases out"

What stricter requirement(s) would you propose?

[GKirk]

65. That's odd....

...a poster says that "Stricter requirements for gun ownership would screen some of the problem cases out"
but when asked what stricter requirements he would suggest there is no response. :(

[ileus]

42. pretend...oh hell no....convinced.

[get the red out]

9. I know, I'm totally shocked

This man is a piece of shit and needs to be put away for a long time, I can't believe the system actually worked!!!!!!

[jmg257]

3. Convicted of having a concealed weapon...doesn't sound like he

was very law-abiding even before he acted like a HUGE asshole.

"Authorities said States followed the two inside, pointed his gun at the girl -- who held the dog in her lap -- and threatened to shoot the terrier."

"He faces a maximum sentence of 17 years and four months in state prison."

Sounds like he could do A LOT of time for this one - good!

[friendly_iconoclast]

6. You're not getting with the program. You're supposed to think all other gun owners are like this guy

I could post an account of the guy who mowed down 20+ shoppers at a street market with a Buick, and it would say just as much
about elderly drivers as a whole as the OP says about gun owners as a whole.

[hlthe2b]

5. Does having the gun encourage such irresponsible behavior?

Or are the irresponsible encouraged to own guns? :shrug:

[friendly_iconoclast]

8. No more than the irresponsible are encouraged to own anything else n/t

Some people just choose to be antisocial assholes.

[petronius]

20. Think about it this way: if you - for whatever reason, say you lost a bet or joined

an experiment or something - had to carry a firearm on your person for a period of time, do you think there's any chance that possessing the gun would make you more likely to taunt and/or assault children and dogs? Is there anyone among your acquaintance for whom the answer is yes?

As for the second part of your question, I doubt anyone is specifically "encouraging" irresponsible people to have guns (How would that conversation go? "Geez, Pete, you're an incredible dumbass! You know what? You really ought to own a gun!" :rofl:) but it's my general observation that stupid people tend to be drawn toward opportunities that let them maximally display their idiocy...

[TheCowsCameHome]

7. Too bad the dog didn't have a gun.

Carleton is a lucky guy.

[jmg257]

10. Naa...it could never hold it & pull the trigger - no opposable thumbs. nt

[Glassunion]

11. Somebody has never attached machine guns to a puppy's feet...

They don't need thumbs... Just duck tape and string.

[S_B_Jackson]

12. Sounds like he's every bit the responsible gun owner that you claim to have been...

Oh....and more shameless blog-flogging. :eyes:

[rl6214]

25. Blog-flogging, yes but at least no blind links to his blog in this one.

[spin]

13. There are 80 million gun owners in the United States ...

and that estimate might be low.

When you have 80 million people owning something, a few will do something incredibly stupid or in some cases illegal with the item.

Of course, some people think that the solution to the few gun owners who act irresponsibly with their firearms is to ban all civilian firearm ownership. Others disagree.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

27. Right

.....so if only 1% are bad, 800,000 idiots with guns isn't so bad. Got it.

[spin]

44. How did you come up with your statistic that 1% of gun owners are idiots?

Did you include all violent criminals and the members of organized drug gangs? Such individuals often use firearms as tools of their trade and are not necessarily idiots or fools although they are evil.

I would suggest that far less than 1% of those who own firearms and could pass an NICS background check ever misuse their weapons in a manner that would endanger others.

If there were indeed 800,000 incompetent idiots owning and misusing firearms in our society, you would read far more news reports similar to the one in the OP about the results. The major newspapers would probably have a section devoted to Fools with Guns.

[mikeb302000]

29. you're the only one talking about banning anything nt

[spin]

43. Interesting considering that you seemed to support the DC ban on assault weapons ....

and magazines that hold more than 10 rounds in one of your posts ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=466677&mesg_id=466677

Yahoo News reports that the Appeals court upholds DC gun restrictions.

The court held that the district's ban on assault weapons and magazines containing more than 10 rounds of ammunition were constitutional. It also held that requiring registration of handguns is a deeply rooted practice that does not violate the Second Amendment.

No wonder Wayne La Pierre says the most ridiculous things and no wonder his supporters tend to get nasty and aggressive, (even the ones who claim to be liberal and democratic) they see the writing on the wall. If they can't do better than this during a presidency that has proven, in spite of all predictions to the contrary, to be on their side, and a Supreme Court balanced in their direction, imagine how they'll fare when things in Washington change.

[friendly_iconoclast]

50. Was it some *other* mikeb302000 that wrote the following?

http://mikeb302000.blogspot.com/2011/06/why-pro-gun-folks-wont-be-reasonable.html

Thursday, June 30, 2011
Why Pro-Gun Folks Won't Be Reasonable
This is a comment I left for Sebastian, which I have no doubt he posted, it's just that I liked it so much I wanted to post it here as well.


All right, I was exaggerating. If you guys suddenly cooperated with the common sense gun control laws that we propose and we saw a tremendous decrease in gun violence, we would naturally want stricter laws in order to lower even more the remaining gun violence. Eventually, I and most of the others would conclude that no guns at all in civilian hands is the best way to go...

Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jmg257]

16. "...go away or he shall taunt you a second time."

And I thought "More Winning" was a perfect example of "na na na na na".
Hard to believe he's almost 60.

[DonP]

17. Funny, I feel the same way about Ex-Pats with criminal backgrounds

We should just condemn them all with a blanket "arrest and imprison on sight" order. After all they are all the same, just like those gun toting criminals that haven't fled the country ... yet, right?

[rl6214]

26. "arrest and imprison on sight"

maybe that's why he fled the country?

[ileus]

37. Ya'll are gonna upset the king.

[rl6214]

54. I think I already have...

He says be me asking about his illegal gun ownership, I am "harrassing" him.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mikeb302000]

30. I laugh every time you guys say things like this

"come out with 1 or 2 stories a week about someone who lawfully owns a gun break the law"

this is an example of downplaying something so drastically in order to support your position that it can only be called spinning.

If you're so right in your position why do you have to do that? You know these kinds of stories are more frequent than that.

Car comparisons have been debunked. You can stop using them now.

[rl6214]

55. "Car comparisons have been debunked."

Car comparisons haven't been debunked, only by the anti crowd. If the anti crowd was sooo worried about unneeded deaths, they would focus their energy on something that would really prevent the most deaths.

Guns are made to kill is the mantra. OK, they do.

Cars are not made to kill, yet they do in numbers much higher than guns. Wouldn't you think you would want to stop the auto related deaths since they are doing something they are not intended to do? Kinda like pest control and DDT. DDT was causing things it was not intended to do so now you don't find it in the civilized world. Cars are too important to society though so you will never see anything done about it.

[rrneck]

18. Meh. Boilerplate. nt

[SteveM]

19. Man doggedly identifies tens of millions of American criminals!

Here's how YOU can too!

(1) Give Americans guns,
(2) Find a criminals act involving guns,
(3) Discover tens of millions of criminal American gun-owners!

It's that easy!

____________

WARNING! Do not complain about this game.

[redgiant]

21. Fail! This is akin...

...to saying, after a heretofore safe driver with a good record is convicted of causing injury while driving drunk, "I wonder how many other drivers with good records are on the verge of committing vehicular carnage?" Because of such incidents, we don't prohibit the possession or consumption of alcohol to all persons--WE CRIMINALIZE THE IRRESPONSIBLE BEHAVIOR and make those persons liable for the damage they cause.

And, that's exactly what happened in this case.

Assuming the facts presented are even a *tiny* bit accurate, the guy is a dangerous looney toon and needs to be separated from society for a long time. If he really did enter the girl's home waiving a gun around after firing a shot outside, he's damn lucky an adult in the house wasn't armed and prepared for his assault. It would have been justifiable self-defense to drop him the moment he stepped inside brandishing a gun.

The article doesn't make it clear, but I wouldn't be surprised if he had some kind of prior police record.

[mikeb302000]

31. the guy is representative of a certain percantage

of gun owners. That's the problem.

[PavePusher]

41. What percentage, mike?

Is it even as high as 1%?

What is your estimate, and what "evidence" supports your estimate?

[SteveM]

47. "...and whisper the sounds of silence." nt

[redgiant]

56. No, it's not the problem

There will always be a small percentage of the population that irresponsibly or criminally misuses any right or privilege. The proper societal action is to penalize the harmful, irresponsible *actions,* not to blanket deny or restrict that right.

If the kind of behavior this case is about was exhibited by more than a tiny, tiny fraction of *legal* gun owners, such incidents would be too numerous to be newsworthy. They aren't.

[ileus]

22. can't we agree, all gun owners are hidden criminals...

[mikeb302000]

32. no not all - some.

[gravity556]

62. And some criminals aren't even hidden, right mikey?

Like the ones who jabber about breaking the law, but then suddenly turn around and want everyone else punished because they couldn't handle the repsonsibility. Like someone who used to smoke but now has quit and turns into one of those asshole super pushy anti-smoking crusaders. Since *they* have no self control, they want *everyone* barred from the activity they can't control. That way, they don't have to feel bad about having no self discipline-just ban it and call everyone who opposes banning something to protect idiots from themselves is suddenly the bad guy.

So, what did cause you to become a criminal with a gun? Felony DUI? Walking on the grass in a no walking on the grass zone? Get pinched with a gram of coke on your way home from the strip club? Come on, man, share with the class! Although it's probably something boring-probably not involving dwarf hookers, a goat and a skillsaw. When did you realize that you weren't responsible enough to have a firearm? And more importantly, why are you so certain that everyone else is as incapable of self control as you find yourself to be?

[rl6214]

23. By carrying a concealed gun he was already committing a crime

Criminals do criminal things so he wasn't a law abiding gun owner. He wasn't a "hidden criminal(s) who own(s) guns". He was a criminal.

How does this compare to your illegal gun ownership?

Unrec for the normal reasons (except no hidden links to your blog, bravo).

[mikeb302000]

33. have I mentioned to you before that

what I did or did not do 25 years ago has not open for discussion. Do you really think I would share with such antagonistic folks as yourselves personal information about myself? I wouldn't.

Now that I've made that clear, any continued comments like yours containing questions like "How does this compare to your illegal gun ownership?" will be considered harrassment.

Please try to join in the discussion without any further personal attacks. Do you think you can do that?

[rrneck]

40. This thread is

a personal attack on every DUer who owns a gun.

Damn phone.

[SteveM]

48. "The days of whine and roses..."

[rl6214]

51. "Personal attacks"? Where do you see a personal attack

That information is out there on the World wide web. YOU put it out there. YOU are the one continuosly bringing up gun control so YOUR illegal gun use is fair game, whether you like it or not. If you consider it to be "considered harrassment" that's your problem.

I guess you'll just have to put me on ignore. Deal with it.

[friendly_iconoclast]

52. Oh, bullshit. You brought it up yourself in a public forum.

You imply on a regular basis people that you do not know and have never met are either criminals, or are just one step from becoming criminals. So, yes, your admitted crimes are very much a relevant subject of discussion here

Nobody made you say the things that you have said, but you freely said them in various public fora and you freely choose to post here
on the very same subject. Grow a thicker skin or get out.

[gravity556]

64. Antagonistic?

Do you really think I would share with such antagonistic folks as yourselves personal information about myself?

Really? Do you need further reminding that you insult law abiding gun owners pretty much every post you make? Constant insinuation that anyone who owns or carries a gun is mere moments from committing a horrible crime? Nevermind your blog-flogging, every post you make, you are hell bent on equating lawful and law abiding gun owners with criminals such as yourself.

You demand courtesy without extending any, and cast insults without expecting any. You, sir, are a fool to think such.

[ileus]

34. The "Do as I say, not as I do" rule. Whited sepulcher applies here...

[ileus]

24. also charged with having a concealed weapon....sounds like he was already an illegal gun owner.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

35. Every person who owns ____________ is a hidden criminal !

miracle grow light
digitl scale or balance
chemistry set
black ski mask
lighter/matches
syringe
camera
computer
gun
pittbull
pocket knife
prilled ammonium nitrate
...

I think you get the picture. There are TONS of things people can use for illegitamate purposes. However in America, as opposed to other fascist piece-of-shit countries, people actually enjoy freedom - they actually have to commit crimes before nanny-staters get to lock them up.

[ileus]

36. Isn't America great!

[spin]

45. Isn't freedom great, especially if we can preserve it for those who follow ...

Unfortunately with our current war on terror and our failed war on drugs, we are losing our rights rapidly.

[Callisto32]

39. Oh GOD.

"The hidden criminals that own guns?" Srsly, wtf?

I think you mean "Gun owners that have as of yet committed no crime."

Also, the very fact that he is known means that now that he is actually a criminal, it isn't hidden...

Oy FUCKING vey.

[spin]

46. The hidden criminals that own guns are the boogieman ...

Goya's "Here Comes the Bogey-Man" (Aquí viene el Coco) c.1797

[Atypical Liberal]

49. What is a "hidden criminal"?

This is a perfect example of what I call the hidden criminals who own guns.The question of how many there are among the law-abiding gun owners is in dispute, but they're there.

There is absolutely nothing in the article to indicate that this person had a prior criminal record or not.

What exactly constitutes a "hidden criminal"?

In what way was this person a "hidden criminal"?

[Glassunion]

57. They are seen more in other places... Like Europe.

Let's say you live in the UK.

Let's say that your niece needs a place to stay. So you let her move in while she looks for an apartment.

Let's say that you, your spouse and niece all go out to dinner.

Let's say that while you are all out at dinner, a satellite falls out of orbit and a flaming piece of it hits your house and the place burns down.

Your insurance company fails to pay for anything because you had a "hidden criminal" in your home. Your niece.

You see two years ago she received a £100 fine(which she paid) for littering and you failed to notify your insurance company of the fact that you had a criminal in your home. This gives the insurance company the opportunity to drop your insurance because they don't want to insure such a high risk.

Basically they are hidden because you did not notify the insurance company that there is a criminal in your home.

[gravity556]

58. I love these flights of fancy you have, though the blank posts are much more believable.

Didn't see where said individual was a CCW holder. And in CA, carrying without a permit is already a crime. So, the minute he put a gun in his pocket without a permit, he was a criminal. See that part up top about "and having a concealed weapon"? Means "not a law abiding gun owner".

And I'm betting he wasn't a normal mild mannered individual to begin with, considering he forced his way into the home and threatened to shoot the dog while the little girl was holding it. I'm thinking maybe, and this is speculation, of course, but according to you, speculation is just as valid as actual facts. How much you wanna bet that the dude with the gun has some low quality tattoos of the variety normally acquired in jail? And a bandana in his pocket, maybe. And a nickname (also known as an alias) as well as membership in one of LA's many "neighborhood social clubs".

Yup, someone who flips his shit like that sounds like a totally law abiding gun owner. Shall I start a blog on your blog so that I can make presumptions painting blog writers who don't know their subject matter but feel a need to pontificate at length as blowhards and purveyors of bovine based fertilizer?

[chrisa]

60. Wow. What a nut job. Good thing he missed.

[Remmah2]

63. Sounds logical

Because I have a penis, does that meke me a rapist?

Your logic is about as flawed as it gets.