Gun used to threaten customers in robbery at Tulsa cafe

[RamboLiberal]

Six South Tulsa restaurant customers allegedly have their lives threatened during a hold-up at a Tulsa restaurant.

Tulsa Police say the two suspects came in the back door of the Kaffe Bona at 91st and Yale about 3:30 yesterday afternoon and ordered all six customers to get on the floor and then robbed them and the store.

A victim named Brian told the News On Six that he thought the suspects were going to shoot everyone after herding them into the bathroom.

"One of the guys put a gun to the back of my head and told me he was going to shoot me if I looked at him," Brian said.

http://www.krmg.com/news/news/local/gun-used-threaten-customers-robbery-tulsa-cafe/nCxZc/

Damn lucky!

[Hoyt]

1. Good thing no toting cowboy tried to pull his gun or several would have been shot.

I forgot, you guys are trained to dodge and shoot when a criminal has a gun at the back of your head.

[ManiacJoe]

2. Fixed it for you: "... or several Could have been shot."

Unless your crystal ball is better than mine...

[Hoyt]

3. That's the problem, too many toters think in terms of "could" and try to be a hero, yielding "would"

be shot.

[ManiacJoe]

4. Again, your crystal ball must be better than mine.

Or you just watch too many movies, or something.

Sometimes defending yourself (and others) with a gun is a good tactic, sometimes it is not. It all depends on the circumstances. Your claim of "never works" is just as invalid as strawman claim of "aways works".

[PavePusher]

12. Ask him if he can cite to a number of such incidents.

He never would for me.

[ergot]

5. It's perfectly clear why a thug would defend other thugs...but why an intelligent DUer

would do it is a total mystery.

[Hoyt]

16. Who's defending thugs. But, some cowboy would/could have gotten people killed.

[spin]

36. Here's three stories that might interest you ...

Customer Shoots Suspect In Liquor Store Robbery

NASHVILLE, Tenn.- There was a deadly gunfight at a liquor store in Inglewood Saturday night. An armed robbery suspect was gunned down, after trying to rob the place. But it wasn't a police officer who took action.

None of the clerks in Sinkers Wine and Spirits had a gun to protect themselves, but they said they're thankful one of their customers did.

***snip***

Meanwhile, police said the suspects pointed a gun at store clerks and forced two customers to the ground. The would-be robbers probably didn't suspect that one of the customers would be carrying a gun nor that he would end up using it.

Baxter believes the customer and the suspects exchanged about ten gunshots. The would-be robbers tried to flee, but one of the men collapsed at the scene and died shortly after. Police said the citizen had a valid carry permit, and a right to protect himself.

UPDATE: Suspect arrested in convenience store shooting
Posted: Jul 11, 2009 5:40 PM EDT Updated: Jul 13, 2009 12:16 PM EDT

RICHMOND, VA (WWBT) - The suspect in the Golden Food Market shooting on Saturday has been arrested.

***snip***

Police said Grooms attempted to the rob the store and shot the clerk.

An armed customer in the store shot Grooms.

***snip***

Police said the customer carrying the weapon will not be charged because the gun was not concealed.
http://www.nbc12.com/story/10711242/update-suspect-arrested-in-convenience-store-shooting?redirected=true

Bystander shoots robbery suspect at Massillon grocery store
Posted: 11/18/2010

MASSILLON, Ohio - A bystander who took matters into his own hands may have helped save the day after an attempted supermarket robbery.



The man was sitting in his car in front of the M & K Supermarket on Walnut Road in Massillon when he saw a would-be robber pistol-whipping a store employee.

The man ran to help, pulling his own gun and wounding the suspect. Massillon police later arrested the suspect, 20-year-old Andrew Robinson.

Customers said they are glad someone took action.
http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_news/akron_canton_news/Bystander-shoots-robbery-suspect-at-Massillon-grocery-store

Customer shoots at robbery suspect
Published: September 22, 2010

MOUNT AIRY — A customer inside a Neighbors convenience store near U.S. 52 just south of Mount Airy shot at a man trying to rob the store when the man threatened a clerk with a handgun, authorities said.

The incident began shortly before 9 p.m. when a man wearing a bandana over his face entered the store at 115 Wisconsin Lane, Surry County Sheriff Graham Atkinson said.

A male customer inside the store was armed with a gun and fired at the suspect when he realized what was happening, Atkinson said.

Because of blood found at the scene the suspect apparently was hit by the shots, Atkinson said.
http://www2.journalnow.com/news/2010/sep/22/customer-shoots-at-robbery-suspect-ar-412337/

[krispos42]

10. Your crystal ball is a bit one-way, isn't it? n/t

[TheWraith]

6. Except, of course, you don't have any evidence of that.

Because despite fantasies, you can't provide cases where someone legally carrying a concealed weapon has reacted to a robbery by wildly shooting the place up.

[ergot]

7. They're not just fantasies, they're fondest hopes.

...

[ileus]

8. It only happens in grabbers heads, like bar shootouts ect...

[rrneck]

9. It beats being trained

to kneel And beg like you. Or do you just plan to snark them into submission?

[rl6214]

11. Good thing you weren't there

or you would have wet your panties.

[Hoyt]

17. Unlike you, I can leave home without a gun. Do it every day and return home unscathed and "dry."

[spin]

38. I can leave home without a gun, but why should I? ...

I invested time and money in getting a concealed weapons permit. I doubt if I ever will have a legitimate reason to use my concealed weapon but I would feel like an absolute fool if I had left it behind in the safe and I found myself in a situation where it might have saved my life or my health.

I have no problems with your decision to not carry. You, for some illogical reason, feel that anyone who legally carries a firearm is a threat to society. You have been presented with facts and statistics that disprove your contention but you simply chose to ignore them and stick to your fantasy that the reason a person who legally carries lives in fear or is a cowboy looking for a gun fight.

[Straw Man]

14. Again with the "dodge and shoot."

You still haven't produced a cite for that one. Third challenge.

[aikoaiko]

18. Your Plan?: Don't try to defend yourself or others and hope criminals don't hurt or kill anyone.

For the record, if anyone sees a criminal with a gun pointed at my head, I would want anyone to try to shoot the person threatening my life.

[Hoyt]

19. Who said not defending oneself. Besides, that will never happen to you, so get over it.

[aikoaiko]

23. Here is why you fail.

You wrote: Good thing no toting cowboy tried to pull his gun or several would have been shot.

You are apparently glad that no one tried to defend themselves or others with a gun because you are certain that there would have been unintended injuries or death but can present little or no evidence that this ever happens.

On the other hand, you promote the myth that one won't be in the position where one would need to defend oneself or others with a gun even when presented with an example of such a case in the OP.

Fortunately, even after showing you the error of your ways you will continue this line of reasoning and continue to fail.

[Hoyt]

26. No one got hurt. A cowboy would not have improved that outcome, and may well have made it worse.

The robbers had their guns out and trained on the 6 customers. I don't think the odds would favor someone drawing their weapon and saving the day in that situation.

You continue to believe that arming the public will make us safer. I disagree.

[jeepnstein]

28. So you just trust in the criminal's better nature?

That worked out quite well for four people in a pharmacy in New York this week.

You can jabber on all you want about cowboys or whatever but it doesn't change anything. Lawful citizens going about their business armed are not now or have never been a problem. Normal everyday people can be trusted with a firearm. You don't have to be some kind of High Speed Low Drag Operator who can field strip a 1911 under water to be a safe and legal armed citizen.

[Hoyt]

30. Shooting a bunch of paper targets doesn't make you Wyatt Earp either.

[gejohnston]

33. Everything you thought you know about Wyatt Earp,

most if not all is wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyatt_Earp
Are you a military or police firearms instructor?

[jeepnstein]

39. What's your point?

Seriously. You always come off sounding like some kind of elitist who doesn't trust the common man very much. I'm sure that's not what you mean to convey.

In my time both as a private citizen and as a cop, I have yet to see a case where an armed citizen went off like some kind of mythical "cowboy". I'm sure you have more experience in that area, as well. What's your basis for your insistence that average citizens cannot handle the responsibility of being armed? I just can't seem to find any reason to limit their Constitutional Rights in the name of the greater good.

I'd sure like to hear that story about field stripping a 1911 under water again, too.

[TheWraith]

13. I would like to remind everyone to stay civil and refrain from personal insults.

There's like five different posts in this thread that would probably get deleted if the mods came through here. Hoyt, ileus, rl6214, I'm looking at you gentlemen. Particularly the latter two. Let personal insults be the realm of the folks like Hoyt who don't have the facts on their side.

[Hoyt]

15. I have facts -- in this situation people walked away unhurt. A cowboy wouldn't have helped.

No matter how much they dream and practice for a situation.

[gejohnston]

20. how about an Indian? Mountain man? nt

[Straw Man]

21. Not "facts" -- you have "a fact."

I have facts -- in this situation people walked away unhurt. A cowboy wouldn't have helped.

Your second sentence is pure conjecture.

[aikoaiko]

24. only a fool depends on the good will of a violent criminal .

[Hoyt]

27. Only a fool believes they are capable of handling such a situation in a crowd.

Shooting paper targets, practicing drawing in front of a mirror, etc., does not prepare most carriers to handle a real life situation. They only fool themselves and likely endanger others.

[aikoaiko]

32. Yes I know. In your mind criminals with guns are safe, but lawful carriers are very very dangerous.

[Hoyt]

34. If you look at statistics of number robberies, etc., you'd be surprised how many walk away unhurt.

So-called "lawful carriers" are just fooling themselves, or so attached to their guns they got to have one or two tucked down their pants.

[Straw Man]

41. Ask the Doobie Brothers what a fool believes ...

Shooting paper targets, practicing drawing in front of a mirror, etc., does not prepare most carriers to handle a real life situation. They only fool themselves and likely endanger others.

Hoyt thinks that the police train on live targets.

[safeinOhio]

29. Only a fool depends on legal CCW holders to

be not dangerous.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,531376,00.html?test=latestnews

[aikoaiko]

31. If a criminal is pointing a gun at my head, I would be deligthed for any CCW to shoot the mofo.

[Hoyt]

35. Most of them will just as likely hit you or the kid down the street.

[X_Digger]

37. Prove it. n/t

[friendly_iconoclast]

40. Unfortunate, but CCW holders *still* have a better record than cops in this regard.

Understanding statistics- It's what's for dinner!

[rl6214]

22. You are right wraith

you know it does get a bit irratating at times with the constant BS that people like hoyt, jpak and the flat out made up BS that they spout and every now and then you need to just blow off a little steam. My apologies.

[aikoaiko]

25. Irritation is a strategy among some posters.

They annoy and irritate as much as possible staying within the rules and bait people into saying things that will get them tombstoned.