Chicago mobs rob bus riders

[palmtree guy]

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/cta-bus-wildings-123404378.html

When you know NO law abiding citizen is going to be carrying a gun, this kind of behavior is easy.

[n2doc]

1. Must happen in England all the time then

What really is the problem is the cutbacks in police, social services and the crappy economy.

[TheCowsCameHome]

2. Yeah, especially with double deckers - more potential victims

:rofl:

[palmtree guy]

3. good thing

it's not the poor misunderstood criminals fault, its ok because times are tough!! what a bunch of bullshit!!

[TheWraith]

4. Mugging is very common over in England.

In fact they're having problems with getting people to report it to the police, because the police are widely viewed as being unable to do anything about it.

[Riftaxe]

7. England has a knife problem,

it seems that the problem is a human one and not a tool one.

[lawodevolution]

8. UK, the most violent country in Europe.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html

[madrchsod]

5. what would a person with a gun do in a crowed bus?

[palmtree guy]

6. not get robbed

if you were a criminal, which bus would you board to rob people on? the bus where you knew all the regular law abiding citizens had no guns? or the bus where there was a good chance that someone on the bus was legally carrying a gun?

[Hoyt]

17. In the latter scenario the criminals will get a gun and shoot the first person who moves.

[Euromutt]

20. Yeah, who wouldn't want an instant first-degree murder charge?

So, got any empirical evidence? Say, actual real-life examples of this happening in "shall-issue" country? Say, in Seattle or Dallas or Richmond or Miami?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

21. Another "surrender and go along and no one gets hurt" post

Sorry, we know better

[GreenStormCloud]

23. Kind of hard to watch everybody on a bus at once. N/T

[TheWraith]

10. If criminals feel comfortable committing a crime, it's probably not a "crowded" bus.

It would probably be a bus with only a handful of people on it. Besides which, the criminal wouldn't be particularly worried about what might happen if his body failed to stop the bullet. He'd be concerned with making sure the situation never arose.

[palmtree guy]

11. the myth of over penetration nt

[TheWraith]

12. I wouldn't consider overpenetration a myth.

I would consider it something to guard against, and to select carry rounds to minimize.

[palmtree guy]

14. most handgun loads

unless your concealing a 7 inch sbr 5.56 or 7.62x 39 or a 308

after going thru 2 layers of skin, 6 or more inches of tissue, perhaps bone, gristle etc is going to yaw,mushroom,and lose velocity, that upon exit if it did exit, is not going to be moving very fast or have much energy..... save for a few of the larger magnums...which are not the concealed carry weapon of choice, far greater danger is the flat out MISS.

[Euromutt]

18. With FMJ rounds, you'd be surprised

There are documented cases of overpenetration with the Browning 1910/22s the Dutch police used before they adopted the Walther P5 in the early 1980s(!), and those Brownings were chambered in .32 ACP (7.65x17mm)!

[palmtree guy]

26. yep

the exception not the rule

[Euromutt]

15. About the same thing Bernhard Goetz did on a crowded subway train (n/t)

[lawodevolution]

9. They do that in Mexico too. You know why?

[palmtree guy]

13. the cartels

run roughshod over the common man in mexico because they KNOW they have the upper hand by being armed and willing to use the guns!!

[lawodevolution]

36. Meanwhile the law abiding citizen does not have a gun because he does not want a criminal

Background check to flag him. So gun control in Mexico is government corruption that is helping drug thugs control the law abiding citizen.

[Hoyt]

16. Yep, just what we need some cowboy with a gun to get folks shot.

I doubt that the lack of guns in the area increases these sort of things.

But I do think the presence of a gun would have gotten one or more people shot and I think it would make criminals arm themselves and shoot the first time some fool moves.

Somehow 95+% of us go on with our daily lives without a gun in public.

[DonP]

19. You keep saying that - where are the examples?

How come, for all your foam flecked,repetitive hype, you never seem to be able to turn up much in the way of examples of "wanna be cowboys" shooting up all those innocent bystanders? Or how about a few examples of criminals taking their guns away and shooting them with it?

You live an active fantasy life not anchored in any kind of reality.

You'll excuse us if we choose to ignore someone with no real world experience's fevered ramblings and instead rely on the actual evidence we see almost every day?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

22. Do not expect a reasonable answer on this

[DonP]

27. Sigh; I don't, just need to point out obvious lies and hypocrisy now and then

Many posters that disagree with some of us keep posting the same wild and unsupported fantasy claims over and over, just like the "blood will run in the streets" crowd did before CCW was widely accepted, hell, some still do.

It's like the people that have never been to a gun show but, based on one Bloomberg edited video and ignoring all the FBI statistics on where crime guns actually come from, they know for sure exactly what happens there. Others insist that every CCW is a "wanna be" cowboy just looking for a chance to shoot up the scenery and kill innocent civilians. It must be nice to suspend disbelief to support some self appointed moral crusader mentality.

Of course they never seem to be able to find any examples of that. You'd think that with almost 10 million people now licensed that they'd be able to come up with at least one tale of woe where an innocent was gunned down by the big mean gun carrier?

Or my favorite, they post some news story about a shooting and it almost always turns out to be criminal. Which tells me these people think anyone that owns a firearm has a moral equivalency with criminals. They either won't or are just too damn dumb to see the difference.

[eqfan592]

31. Bigotry and ignorance....

....are very hard to combat in those who feel they are clearly morally superior to everybody else around them. They are willing to make up whatever garbage they can think of to help push their agenda. They are not capable of seeing that when you have to lie and/or misrepresent the truth in order to press your agenda that your position is likely in great need of reevaluation.

They are totally unable (or unwilling) to see the complexities in some issues, instead going for the "clever" one liner. But what is MOST sad is that they do not see how this makes them basically the left version of the drooling-mouths over at freerepublic.

[GreenStormCloud]

24. Meanwhile, back in the real world. Some examples:

http://houstonist.com/2007/06/06/grand_jury_find.php
Grand jury finds Metro bus shooter acted in self defense
The attacker was killed, no innocents were hit.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2010397535_apwaselfdefense.html
Seattle bus stop shooting was self defense
Attacker wounded, no innocents hit.

And as Euromutt noted there was the Goetz shooting on a subway.

We have shown real life examples of self-defense on public transit with no one else hit. Now will you please post self-defense stories, public transit, in which the defender mowed down innocents?

[palmtree guy]

25. look at the stats

if you live in a cc state, there are MORE people than you know about carrying, and they are not cowboys, vigilantes, gunfighters, or rabid mad dogs....

[Hoyt]

29. 95+% don't carry and do fine. Those who do carry seldom encounter that mugger they believe is

behind every tree. But, if they do -- they are not prepared to shoot it out in a crowd, no matter how many silhouette targets they've blasted away at playing cowboy, or how many times they practiced in front of a mirror.

Join the 95+% who can live well without a gun tucked down their pants.

[Glassunion]

30. I'm glad that you have updated your numbers from 97% to 95%, however

it is in all probability somewhere in the neighborhood of 89% now a days.

[DonP]

32. While you're at it get rid of those seat belts too ...

... and throw away that fire extinguisher in your kitchen since accidents and grease fires are few and far between and would NEVER happen to you or in your home.

If you actually knew jack shit about firearms or training programs you might be a credible threat but instead you come across as a foolish child in mommy's basement living out some kind of twisted fantasy and throwing tantrums when the foolishness is pointed out to you.

You only get to make those choices for your own life. When you think you are some kind of morally superior intellect and start trying to legislate your opinion on everyone else you'll get crushed like a grape legislatively. Just like the long list of other gun control fans have. There's a reason that each successive congress for the past three (or four?) cycles has had an increasing number of NRA "A" rated people in both houses and it's not the campaign money, it's the votes at the grass roots level.

See, there's you and your imaginary support group of "non carriers" and then there's the very real 4.5 million dues paying and voting NRA members and their families and friends.

Now try not acting quite so pompous and supercilious for just a few days and give everyone a break.

[rl6214]

34. "Now try not acting quite so pompous and supercilious for just a few days and give everyone a break.

Not gonna happen. He/she seems to live for taking jabs at people that disagree on the RKBA and would rather engage in childish wordplay and name calling while coming up with NO facts to support anything it claims. I would put it on ignore but reading the posts is a daily source of amusement for me. It's unbelievable the lack of any sort of learning curve here.

[GreenStormCloud]

37. If I need it only once in my life, that is sufficient. I will be happy if that once doesn't happen.

My wife got her CHL in 2005 and had to use it twice in two separate incidents that happened a few weeks after she got it. Each time the would-be attacker fled, no shots were fired. She has not needed it since then. Since she is a frail older woman she likely would not have survived the attacks.

Muggers rarely attack in a crowd, usually they will try to isolate the victim. If a mugger does attack in a crowd using a gun for defense isn't a problem. The mugger will be at contact range and hitting someone a couple of feet away doen't call for extremely levels of accuracy.

[rrneck]

38. Not enough of them

to influence your self important opinion. You think they're idiots anyway. Fuck 'em.

You are a real piece of work.

Edit for stupid auto complete.

[one-eyed fat man]

28. What, still no picture of you in the T-shirt??

http://www.cafepress.com/gunfree01.57977

[rl6214]

33. Are you facinated by cowboys?

You must be, you must have a thing for cowboys, you are ALWAYS talking about them. Didn't your mother let you have a cowboy outfit when you were young? You could get one now and look like the guy in the Village People.

[rrneck]

35. He broke his glasses

and he's still whipping up tears. Maybe some Lifebuoy soap will help.

[DonP]

39. On behalf of The Lone Ranger, Roy Rogers, Gene Autry and the rest of the crew, we resent that crack

Since when did being a "Cowboy" become bad thing?

Not that long ago the Cowboy was a good guy in a white hat that was good to children, his horse, schoolmarms and the local Indians and fearless when faced with a bunch of bad guys.

Once again gun control fans confuse the historic good guys with the historic criminals that carried guns.

I'm not saying everybody should sign up for SASS events, but at least we shouldn't have to take insults to our childhood heroes from no good polecat varmints lying down. Gabby Hayes would really be pissed.