Anyone feel like helping me with this?

[PittLib]

This began as an attack on a "libertarian" justifying his vote for Bush*. I have my own response to this - but I'm sincerely interested in hearing your reaction. I am not completely anti-war. I feel that in extreme circumstances ... intervention is warranted to ease suffering. I take a generally humanitarian position ... but enough of my opinion - let's hear yours:

Hello _____,
As for being a spoiled kid, I'm 38 years old and a manager of an IT department.
My parents (may they rest in peace) came to the USA following the Korean
conflict destitute and unable to speak English. I grew up in the ghetto in
NY/NJ. I put myself through school working at restaurants and taking out loans.
It was the work-ethic that was instilled in me that made me successful.

While I agree with you that Iraq may have not been the first priority on the
list of dictators to topple, I feel that the Iraqi people deserve a chance at
freedom. A lot of people during the Korean War felt that it wasn't America's
problem and a lot more Americans died to keep my people free than in Iraq. Was
it worth it? I certainly feel so. Do you feel that the thousands of American
lives lost in the defense of my people was needless? Do you feel that plight of
others suffering under dicatatorships beyond our borders is not our problem
because it doesn't affect our national security directly? Do you feel that as
long as you have democracy its ok for other people to live in tyranny? If you
answer yes to any of those questions, I do indeed think that is selfish. Who
are you to tell me that my family didn't deserve to be liberated because US
security interests weren't directly at stake?

Would I volunteer for Iraq? I'm not a professional soldier. The job is much
better left to those VOLUNTEERS who make it their profession. However, if the
Army drafted me, I would be proud to serve. Additionally, the age limit would
have to be raised to let me in. You don't have to be in the military to support
the war and our troops.

For some reason, I have trouble believing that you would support the liberation
of North Korea by force --- please correct me if I'm wrong. It is the pervasive
attitude of the post-nam lefties to oppose all wars. I believe that America
stands for freedom and hope for democratic movements throughout the world, NOT
just in the USA. This is the America that my parents looked to for hope and
military assistance to defend them from tyranny. Despite his rhetoric, I do not
believe that John Kerry will do anything to unseat the North Korean dictator. I
think that the Left is in real denial with its isolationist rhetoric. We can't
just stick our heads in the sand and hope the evil dictators will go away. We
gotta do something about it.

As far as me selling out my social values, well I think that stopping brutal
murderous dictators is a little more important than gay marriage or abortion
rights. I have a lot of friends who are gay and I share their anger at this
administration. However without a strong America, there would be no hope for
gay rights or abortion rights anywhere.

I'm not saying we have to tell everyone else in the world how to live. I'm
saying that we should give the ability for everyone else in the world to choose
how they want to live without a brutal dictatorship standing in the way.

I'm not speaking from the perspective of a political idealogue. I'm speaking
from my family experience. I come from a family of registered Democrats (the
mainstream FDR/JFK type, NOT the antiwar post-Nam hippies of the John Kerry
variety). There's nothing Right-wing or Left-wing about wanting to be free and
wanting freedom for others.

[clydefrand]

1. How many millions of people are in North Korea?

Are they fighting for their freedom? I think the fight has to start in their homeland before they can expect the people from another country to put their lives on the line for them. I realize they are suppressed, but the sheer numbers indicating their preference for freedom should have some influence upon the dictator. How does a dictator enlist an army of supporters?

I see on television, which I'm sure doesn't portray everything accurately, that the people of North Korea bow down to worship their dictator. I find this very difficult to understand, but perhaps that's because I've always been free. I Why aren't they rebelling instead?

I despise war. We need to learn to resolve problems such as dictatorships some way other than fighting. Yes, there will be times, I'm sure, that we will have to fight for our country and we must do so.

But the problems that I see that cause the lack of freedom, that promote dictatorhsips, are mainly poverty, lack of arable land, unsafe water, and lack of education. These are the things that need to be addressed all over the earth. Solve these problems and there will be no need for wars. Why aren't we using the trillions upon trillions of dollars spent all over this earth on military for the problems above? How long would it take us to resolve the problems of hunger, health, education, etc. if we did?

We are blessed in this country because we have plenty of arable land, safe water and the ingenuity and determination to use our natural resources to make our lives what they are today.

It seems to me that dictators can only flourish in countries that lack the factors above. Should we destroy dictators and their regimes in these countries? It is so easy to say yes. If their destruction were the only ones destroyed, then of course they should be. But I can't sanction killing our people and using our resources to fight another country's dictators when that country's people don't rise up against the dictator first. If they do and ask for our help, they had better have a solid majority behind them before they can expect us to go to bat for them.

Yes, they should have freedom. But they, too, must fight for it.

[PittLib]

2. Thank you.

I did find it somewhat ironic that this person is calling me selfish as he tells me that I should put my brother or son or friend in harms way to free his people. In a sense suggesting that my life means less than his. I understand the sentiment of wanting freedom for everyone, I respect that - but to honestly believe that our government has such noble intentions when it chooses to occupy and/or declare war on a country is pretty naive. Think of all the places we won't touch ie. Africa. While war is rarely if ever the answer - I don't have a big problem with sending troops to restore peace. I guess I'm just tired of lame justifications for supporting Bush* - and equally as tired of people who refuse to acknowledge Kerry's character. I find it mind boggling.

[cavvie]

3. How could they fight?

For the most part, clyde, I agree with you. Here in America we are blessed with many things. However I there is something you said I would like to point out:

What do dictators do? They oppress. You see the problems you've listed, poverty, lack of arable land, unsafe water, and lack of education we can apply in case to North Korea. The North Korean people are very well educated. Have you seen or heard of the things kids there were taught in the 60's and times after the war? These kids, who are now the people starting to run the country were taught to kill Americans. To despise them. At the same time, these people are indoctrinated to love their leader unconditionally. Considering this, it's slightly less surprising to see the spectacular event put on in the DPRK.

Kim Chong-Il, and his father before him, have the process down to a 't'. People won't ever rise up, at least not in appreciable numbers while they are systematically oppressed. I mean, if they were every going to have a populist uprising, wouldn't they have had one in the last few years when millions of people were dying of famine? I feel so awful for those poor people. Imagine life being so bad you want to flee to CHINA.

Unfortunately, Chong-Il will probably only do the bare minimum necessary to keep the population cowed and brainwashed. He's definitely not going to divert money from military spending to other things and, Bush's handling notwithstanding, he would definitely like to beat his with nuclear weapons and achieve concession after concession.

This is one of the places in the world that troubles me the most. Not only do we see horrible human rights and standards of living, oppression, torture, forced labor, we also have a nation capable of seriously harming other nations around it bring more suffering and instability.