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cloudythescribbler

(2,598 posts)
61. sarandon's remark harkens back to many earlier statements, like Leonard Bernstein in '68 ...
Wed Mar 30, 2016, 01:47 AM
Mar 2016

... suggesting that the election of Nixon would bring about the 'revolution'. It is a meme I call "radical perversity"

We all know how well that turned out in the case of Nixon (Jimmy Carter was hardly the revolution ...).

Then in 2004, highly regarded Marxist historian Gabriel Kolko wrote in Counterpunch how re-electing W Bush would promote a less "sustainable" imperialism than Kerry.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2004/09/11/elections-alliances-and-the-american-empire/

This kind of thinking, much more sophisticated in the case of Kolko, is the absolute opposite of what any radical who wants to build a mass progressive movement in the US needs to embrace. Even as a more radical vision is put forward in the midst of union organizing or election work for someone like Bernie Sanders, ANY decent grassroots organizer knows that "radical perversity" is a dead end, not only as a matter of principle but also as a matter of political exigency. It is the view of those who have little grassroots 'feel', who put what's inside their head over what goes on in the world -- a form of "idealism" in the political confusion sense.

It is however an excellent tool for illustration, for trying to convince folk that at least in swing states, it's more important to vote to stop trump than anything else on election day

I do respect (though I disagree with) those who argue that in getting people to vote for a candidate like Obama, or like Hillary Clinton if she's nominated, or for that matter like Kerry, is misleading people into the jaws of neoliberalism, when you need to earn the deeper respect of those you organize for your 'principles'. But to prefer the worse over the better, so as to promote a radical vision, or "radical perversity" is simply wrong AND stupid

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Voting is a right Kalidurga Mar 2016 #1
.that^ X100 840high Mar 2016 #49
oh no. MFM008 Mar 2016 #54
Sure I can dump it on the DNC if I like. Kalidurga Mar 2016 #63
Perfect. Nt Juicy_Bellows Mar 2016 #64
Ditto. Contrary1 Mar 2016 #67
Naw...Sanders supporters are unimportant so their egos do not play a vital role in this election Armstead Mar 2016 #2
The world is already burning. You're just insisting you smell incense instead of smoke. (nt) jeff47 Mar 2016 #3
What I usually tell people that aren't paying attention. hobbit709 Mar 2016 #5
Ya, and they are polishing the brass on the Titanic n/t Hydra Mar 2016 #20
perfect virtualobserver Mar 2016 #57
I stole it from Fight Club Hydra Mar 2016 #69
When did Susan Sarandon become the spokesperson for the Sanders Campaign bvar22 Mar 2016 #4
All the BSS were bragging about having the Naderite's support. redstateblues Mar 2016 #8
Could you be more specific? bvar22 Mar 2016 #17
*bern Dem2 Mar 2016 #6
Who Wanna Watch the World Burn dchill Mar 2016 #7
It's a free country. Anyone can vote for whoever they please based on their judgment. BillZBubb Mar 2016 #9
Amen. Life goes on. 840high Mar 2016 #50
Hillary followers are using right-wing tactics revbones Mar 2016 #10
We learned them from Bernie supporters. You guys have been way ahead of us in that regard redstateblues Mar 2016 #11
So without citing any examples, and given the history of Hillary followers crying wolf, revbones Mar 2016 #13
If you want to watch a world really burn, look at Iraq. longship Mar 2016 #12
along with Syria, Libya, Honduras, etc. hobbit709 Mar 2016 #15
+1 840high Mar 2016 #51
Look at HRC's alignment with Kagan, Kissinger and Netanyahu. And weep for the Dem party! delrem Mar 2016 #23
Bernie is nothing but ego at this point. He loves the limelight. R B Garr Mar 2016 #14
Hell yes! After just hanging around for 70+ years, why not? dogman Mar 2016 #19
Yes, hanging around for 70 years is very foolish. R B Garr Mar 2016 #25
OK dogman Mar 2016 #29
Bill Clinton did it. Barack Obama did it. R B Garr Mar 2016 #31
So he didn't want to then, so he can't now? dogman Mar 2016 #34
He obviously didn't want it bad enough to actually fight R B Garr Mar 2016 #41
Well, you have to admit joining the Dem party only 8 months ago and . . . brush Mar 2016 #53
Timing is everything. dogman Mar 2016 #59
He cares about the people....it is the party that does not care about the people virtualobserver Mar 2016 #58
I think Barrett Holmes Pitner has it wrong. dogman Mar 2016 #16
If she cared about global warming... LisaM Mar 2016 #30
Maybe She felt Nader was the better candidate to do that. dogman Mar 2016 #44
I don't find Jimmy Carter snd Bernie Sanders remotely alike n/t LisaM Mar 2016 #45
First thing comes to mind is integrity. dogman Mar 2016 #48
Two very honest, caring men, who 840high Mar 2016 #52
One million dead Arabs is enough. No HRC supporter can talk about saving the world from burning! nt delrem Mar 2016 #18
That was, as George Carlin put it: Hydra Mar 2016 #22
Vote for this neocon, not that, because this one is a "D". What a disgrace! nt delrem Mar 2016 #24
The biggest laugh is that the one with the "D" has been adopted by the Bush Family Hydra Mar 2016 #27
It does explain the "loyalty oath OP on DU" phenomenon, though. delrem Mar 2016 #37
Yes, everything going on is totally logical Hydra Mar 2016 #43
Hillary wants to watch the world burn AZ Progressive Mar 2016 #21
So, this entire thing begins and ends with Bernie supporters huh? CoffeeCat Mar 2016 #26
She won the popular vote in 2008. R B Garr Mar 2016 #36
I'm sweetness and light! CoffeeCat Mar 2016 #42
It's nothing like 2008. It's the exact opposite. R B Garr Mar 2016 #47
Yeh, asshole terms like Berniac certainly help. HERVEPA Mar 2016 #28
After you got called upon nadinbrzezinski Mar 2016 #32
Oh who fucking cares? Enough with the high school DRAMA! beam me up scottie Mar 2016 #33
It's going to get worse as Bernie sweeps the remaining states. delrem Mar 2016 #38
Anyone who really wanted to watch the world burn would vote for the warmonger Vote2016 Mar 2016 #35
Bingo!! jillan Mar 2016 #39
She's wrong. I support Sanders and I completely disagree with Sarandon. drm604 Mar 2016 #40
I bet Nero had the same feeling whirlygigspin Mar 2016 #46
Good man. 840high Mar 2016 #56
Couldn't have said that any better. Of course voting is a right. AgadorSparticus Mar 2016 #55
Viva la Revolution! blueintelligentsia Mar 2016 #60
Love the gif but they drove the car into the Grand Canyon. Juicy_Bellows Mar 2016 #65
sarandon's remark harkens back to many earlier statements, like Leonard Bernstein in '68 ... cloudythescribbler Mar 2016 #61
Accelerationism isn't rooted in any actual concern for the worker forjusticethunders Mar 2016 #70
What a bunch of bullshit. blackspade Mar 2016 #62
Some people will not voter for any and all Democrats. HassleCat Mar 2016 #66
The world burners are the donors who fund both parties dreamnightwind Mar 2016 #68
Asking Sanders supporters whether they'd vote for Clinton is stupid and premature... Orsino Mar 2016 #71
KICK! Cha Mar 2016 #72
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