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In reply to the discussion: a physics question [View all]

caraher

(6,332 posts)
21. This would be a nice homework problem for an upper-level college course
Tue Oct 31, 2023, 12:16 AM
Oct 2023

I don't want to calculate and answer right now but I think the answer depends crucially on assumptions.

One interesting one is the thermal properties of the "unobtanium" - can we assume the temperature of the gas matches the temperature of Earth's interior at any given depth? Or do we assume it is also a perfect insulator, so that the properties of the air in the tube are driven by the atmosphere alone?

I think it's safe to ignore the rotation of the Earth.

JT45242's calculation is a useful starting point. One issue they acknowledged is that "g" diminishes as you go deeper into the Earth. Exactly how it depends on depth depends, in turn, on how you model the interior of the planet. If you treat Earth as having a uniform mass distribution then local "g" is going to be proportional to the distance from the center of Earth, until you hit the surface. But it's understood that the density decreases with the distance from the center, which complicates the calculation of local "g."

Poking around a bit online I found some lecture notes including a calculation of "g" vs. distance from the center of Earth. (The vertical axis is labeled in meters but is obviously supposed to be km.) "g" actually is fairly constant from the surface to around 4000 km, rises to around 10.7 m/s^2 at 3500 km from the center, and smoothly goes toward zero from there (not perfectly linear, but close enough). A serviceable model would have g constant at about 10 m/s^2 to a radius of about 3200 km, then drop linearly to zero as you go to zero radius. So the formula in JT45242's post is pretty accurate until you get to 3200 km radius - assuming a constant air density.

But... that's not a great assumption, either. Air density is not constant in the thin shell of air above our heads, so it wouldn't be constant to a great depth, either. Other folks have commented on air being compressible, and the high pressures JT45242 calculated would certainly suggest that you can't take properties such as density to be constant.

As an aside, some folks note that "g"=0 at the center and suggest that implies a low pressure. But that's not how pressure works. Consider a sliver of air in that 1 square inch channel maybe an inch from the center of Earth. To be in mechanical equilibrium, that little slab experiences a (tiny) downward force of its own weight plus the pressure exerted by all the air above it, which needs to be balanced by the pressure beneath it. What is true is that when you get near the center, the additional contribution to pressure from the weight of a given "slab" of air gets smaller. But there is still the pressure from all the air above that needs to be considered.

When I'm less tired I'll dust off my thermal physics texts and see what I can figure out. It seems likely that you'd wind up leaving the gas phase (model the air as all nitrogen) at some depth. But I don't think you get a solid. If we take JT45242's answer for pressure you get something on the order of 80 MPa, and the phase diagrams I see for hydrogen require a pressure of at least 1 GPa to get solid nitrogen for any plausible temperature for this problem. Though if you wind up having a phase change, that will dramatically change the density... which in turn might really affect the pressure.

I think this problem is more interesting for the discussion of assumptions than for the answer!

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a physics question [View all] moonshinegnomie Oct 2023 OP
Use the Pressure as a function of depth equation JT45242 Oct 2023 #1
another wrench to throw in the calculations moonshinegnomie Oct 2023 #4
And as you go significantly deeper into the earth, the strength of gravity will weaken as well. Salviati Oct 2023 #26
This message was self-deleted by its author BootinUp Oct 2023 #2
thats roughly the answer i calculated moonshinegnomie Oct 2023 #3
This reminds me of college TlalocW Oct 2023 #5
I'm surprised that prompted heated debate caraher Oct 2023 #22
If you substitute air, with water, it becomes easier to imagine. The water pressure at the bottom Chainfire Oct 2023 #6
How about this? usonian Oct 2023 #7
Not quite caraher Oct 2023 #23
A column of water, regardless of the cross-sectional area of the "channel" Chainfire Oct 2023 #8
if you dropped a ball thru the earth it would oscillate from one side to the other moonshinegnomie Oct 2023 #9
That is what I assumed as a 12 year old. That it would bounce back and forth until it slowed to a stop in Chainfire Oct 2023 #15
air is compressable moonshinegnomie Oct 2023 #10
Of course, but at the pressures that exist under the eggshell thin crust Warpy Oct 2023 #11
i dont know if it would be liquid or solid or gas moonshinegnomie Oct 2023 #12
Air, would certainly be a gas in a zero gravity system, unless it was super cold, I don't believe the proposition Chainfire Oct 2023 #14
PSI is a measure of weight. Chainfire Oct 2023 #13
no it isnt moonshinegnomie Oct 2023 #16
It certainly is. Pounds per square inch, as referring to a column of water, for instance Chainfire Oct 2023 #17
Yes, and weight is the relevant issue, I think William Seger Oct 2023 #18
No, it isn't. sl8 Oct 2023 #19
Yes, but in this case, the pressure is due to the weight William Seger Oct 2023 #20
This would be a nice homework problem for an upper-level college course caraher Oct 2023 #21
This is the best answer in the set. Some comments... NNadir Oct 2023 #24
This message was self-deleted by its author NNadir Oct 2023 #25
At first your plumbing would be clogged up by water and carbon dioxide... hunter Oct 2023 #27
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