Religion

Voltaire2

(15,377 posts)

211. Try defending your statement: religious people have a right to their beliefs too

Reply to ollie10 (Reply #210)

Sun Jun 3, 2018, 01:09 PM

Jun 2018

by documenting anyone here who has claimed that they don't.

Or continue with your '...' nonsense.

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Corruption, Duplicitousness, and Lying are Important Christian Values, Apparently. [View all] MineralMan May 2018 OP

It's called Lyin for the Lord... Thomas Hurt May 2018 #1

You know better than that. ollie10 May 2018 #2

Go look at the websites of major Evangelical Christian leaders. MineralMan May 2018 #4

Oh please.... ollie10 May 2018 #6

I said, APPARENTLY, MineralMan May 2018 #8

you also said " I can draw no other conclusion" ollie10 May 2018 #9

Based on what is apparent, from their open claims of Christianity MineralMan May 2018 #10

If it is your debating point that Christianity holds as a core value lying ollie10 May 2018 #13

Consider this: As an atheist, I think it's all a lie MineralMan May 2018 #16

One can certainly see why you do not wish to speak further. guillaumeb May 2018 #19

Another empty, irrelevant insult? MineralMan May 2018 #23

No, not an insult, guillaumeb May 2018 #24

Ugh! MineralMan May 2018 #25

MM, I don't understand what's happening to you, Hortensis May 2018 #31

At least this takes them away from their main internet job, promoting a certain Eliot Rosewater May 2018 #153

You can choose to respond or walk away as you choose ollie10 May 2018 #26

.. MineralMan May 2018 #27

... ollie10 May 2018 #28

Seriously? Major Nikon May 2018 #49

.. ollie10 May 2018 #50

Well... NeoGreen May 2018 #57

No, the OP said ollie10 May 2018 #61

So, what is your opinion... NeoGreen May 2018 #64

If you are going to talk about "hard ons" I think perhaps you are being disrespectful ollie10 May 2018 #67

"You can choose to respond or walk away as you choose"... NeoGreen May 2018 #68

... ollie10 May 2018 #69

... NeoGreen May 2018 #70

I don't know why you are trying to bait me with these posters I have never heard of ollie10 May 2018 #71

... NeoGreen May 2018 #72

There are 2 possibilities here... NeoGreen May 2018 #73

This message was self-deleted by its author ollie10 May 2018 #74

.... ollie10 May 2018 #75

One less sock today in the group Major Nikon May 2018 #80

Yep...and that was a particularly fast... NeoGreen May 2018 #81

Certainly makes one a believer in the resurrection Major Nikon May 2018 #82

Good one (nt) NeoGreen May 2018 #83

That's a "No true Scotsman"-fallacy. Why aren't atheists allowed to use this fallacy??? DetlefK May 2018 #5

If you think a religion makes lying one of the ten commandments ollie10 May 2018 #7

It made killing rebellious kids one of them Major Nikon May 2018 #34

Nice try Major ollie10 May 2018 #36

Nice try ollie Major Nikon May 2018 #39

Again, if you cannot find that a central point of the bible was lying..... ollie10 May 2018 #41

Funny how you didn't answer the question Major Nikon May 2018 #42

the topic that preceeded your post was whether a central message of the bible was lying ollie10 May 2018 #44

I'm discussing exactly that topic Major Nikon May 2018 #47

The bible is a big book ollie10 May 2018 #53

Sure, because the bible is "metaphorical" right? Except when you don't want it to be Major Nikon May 2018 #56

... ollie10 May 2018 #59

I was hoping you'd give me another lesson on how "Honor Thy Mother and Father" isn't one of the 10 Major Nikon May 2018 #60

wow....I didn't say that ollie10 May 2018 #62

You can take this as your daily bible lesson and proof you just violated the 9th Commandment Major Nikon May 2018 #65

.... ollie10 May 2018 #112

If your child cursed you, would you put them to death? Major Nikon May 2018 #33

If you couldn't find where a central point of the Bible was lying and corruption ollie10 May 2018 #35

No less obscure than the ones you found Major Nikon May 2018 #37

The only bible verse I pointed to was the Ten Commandments! ollie10 May 2018 #38

... Major Nikon May 2018 #40

your verse was from leviticus, not the ten commandments ollie10 May 2018 #43

Fail Major Nikon May 2018 #45

leviticus 20:9 ollie10 May 2018 #46

Fail Major Nikon May 2018 #48

... ollie10 May 2018 #51

Ah shucks, I was so looking forward to you explaining how you didn't fail Major Nikon May 2018 #52

.... ollie10 May 2018 #63

... Major Nikon May 2018 #66

He's really cutting to the chase with the no content replies Lordquinton May 2018 #85

I'm OK if they want to claim it's all metaphorical Major Nikon May 2018 #86

I didn't say it was all metaphorical ollie10 May 2018 #113

I didn't say you did Major Nikon May 2018 #115

really? ollie10 May 2018 #118

I also got your condescension Major Nikon May 2018 #119

nobody was talking about the 4th commandment, that was a diversion ollie10 May 2018 #120

So the 9th Commandment wasn't a diversion, but the 4th was? Major Nikon May 2018 #122

... ollie10 May 2018 #123

. Major Nikon May 2018 #125

Others have Lordquinton May 2018 #158

Seems we're back to another trope they love Lordquinton May 2018 #159

Either the commandments are carried over into the NT or they are not. Which is it? Voltaire2 May 2018 #89

I was referring to the ten commandments,leviticus ollie10 May 2018 #92

I read the thread. Voltaire2 May 2018 #94

I am supposed to take bible study from an atheist?!!! ollie10 May 2018 #98

You should at least read the 10 Commandments before you engage in your own bible study lesson Major Nikon May 2018 #102

-- ollie10 May 2018 #106

! Major Nikon May 2018 #107

Please tell us again how "honor thy mother and father" isn't one of the 10 commandments Major Nikon May 2018 #101

I was reponding to a post who referenced leviticus 20:9 ollie10 May 2018 #108

So much for the prohibition on lying, eh? Major Nikon May 2018 #110

Off topic ollie10 May 2018 #111

I was talking about the 10 commandments and you replied to me Major Nikon May 2018 #114

1) Jesus told followers to be sly as snakes. Bretton Garcia May 2018 #54

under certain cirumstances, of course ollie10 May 2018 #58

4) God confused us at Babel Bretton Garcia May 2018 #76

.... ollie10 May 2018 #79

1) God not only allows what appear to be lies to us; Bretton Garcia May 2018 #84

so unlike Kant your god thinks ethics are not universal but are relative? Voltaire2 May 2018 #90

and if I said the reverse, you would attack god also ollie10 May 2018 #91

Ethics is difficult! Voltaire2 May 2018 #95

.. ollie10 May 2018 #99

God is usually presented as unchanging Bretton Garcia May 2018 #96

I didn't say ethics was simple ollie10 May 2018 #100

Where's that photo of the Nazi belt buckle,.. Bretton Garcia May 2018 #116

your dislike of religion is noted ollie10 May 2018 #117

The simplistic forms of religion have often prevailed Bretton Garcia May 2018 #121

And the most simplisic of non-theists have often prevailed...... Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin..... ollie10 May 2018 #124

You can say atheism is the cause of genocide and wars all you want Major Nikon May 2018 #126

didn't say that at all ollie10 May 2018 #133

So I'm supposed to make a deal to prevent you from demonstrating ignorance? Major Nikon May 2018 #136

do you think stalin was a theist? hitler? pol pot? ollie10 May 2018 #138

No, yes, no Major Nikon May 2018 #139

I posted with several links above ollie10 May 2018 #146

None of your links suggested Hitler was an atheist Major Nikon May 2018 #147

I didn't say he was an atheist ollie10 May 2018 #150

So why even mention him along with atheism? Major Nikon May 2018 #155

Why do you limit your count to the last century? Mariana May 2018 #130

you could go back further ollie10 May 2018 #135

Hitler, many sources say, was a Catholic altar boy Bretton Garcia May 2018 #131

hitler was not religious according to the wide consensus of historians ollie10 May 2018 #134

Almost all of Hitlers followers were Christians. Mariana May 2018 #140

hitler used religious people to get into power ollie10 May 2018 #145

That's false too. Christian symbolism and Voltaire2 May 2018 #149

read this, with sources ollie10 May 2018 #152

About 99% of Germans were Christian when Hitler came to power. Mariana May 2018 #156

Christians are embarrassed by Hitler.of course Bretton Garcia May 2018 #141

again, no links ollie10 May 2018 #144

Are the vast majority of historians denying Mariana May 2018 #160

Hitler was an anti-Christian ollie10 May 2018 #161

People like Hitler can't do a damn thing Mariana May 2018 #162

... ollie10 May 2018 #165

The Nazi party was working on removing Voltaire2 May 2018 #164

nobody said he was an atheist ollie10 May 2018 #166

So justin time you are now nobody? Voltaire2 Jun 2018 #169

Non-theist was the word ollie10 Jun 2018 #171

A non-theist believes in how many gods? Voltaire2 Jun 2018 #174

non-theism defined ollie10 Jun 2018 #175

Oh I see. Thanks! Voltaire2 Jun 2018 #179

no, I simply labeled them as non-theists ollie10 Jun 2018 #182

Oh. So basically you want to have it both ways. Voltaire2 Jun 2018 #183

no. I simply posted a definition ollie10 Jun 2018 #185

Nope. Your -definition- changes based on Voltaire2 Jun 2018 #187

... ollie10 Jun 2018 #188

1. You claimed that pol pot, stalin and hitler were non-theists Voltaire2 Jun 2018 #189

Don't you have something better to do ollie10 Jun 2018 #190

Yes well i suppose changing the subject is a good idea Voltaire2 Jun 2018 #191

.... ollie10 Jun 2018 #192

the majority of germans were christians ollie10 May 2018 #163

Someone doesn't get to be a dictator Mariana May 2018 #167

If you don't think hitler was the most responsible ollie10 Jun 2018 #172

Hitler was responsible, but he couldn't have done it alone. Mariana Jun 2018 #176

If you read my post you would know I said plenty of blame to go around ollie10 Jun 2018 #177

you didn't do your homework on Pope Benedict ollie10 May 2018 #137

Speaking. to Germans after the war,few would acknowledge ties with Nazism. Bretton Garcia May 2018 #142

my post had several links ollie10 May 2018 #143

I've substantiated some links in the past. Bretton Garcia May 2018 #157

You said..."and don't forget all those times the Bible told priests that lying is godly..." ollie10 Jun 2018 #178

Suddenly nobody was a Nazi and nobody knew anything Voltaire2 May 2018 #148

Catholics, Christians, were in Denial Bretton Garcia Jun 2018 #170

So the guy who was drafted at a young age ollie10 Jun 2018 #173

The Pope? Not a dedicated Nazi. But not a saint or holy person either. Bretton Garcia Jun 2018 #180

and what was the penalty for desertion in nazi germany? ollie10 Jun 2018 #181

Old enough. How old are you? Bretton Garcia Jun 2018 #184

old enough. ollie10 Jun 2018 #186

You are saying that Jesus would've joined the Nazis Bretton Garcia Jun 2018 #193

I did not say jesus would have joined the nazis ollie10 Jun 2018 #194

Popes copy or represent Jesus, they say. Bretton Garcia Jun 2018 #195

Are you saying you have to be christ to be pope? ollie10 Jun 2018 #196

Where is the nuance in that world view? eom guillaumeb Jun 2018 #197

no room for nuance.... ollie10 Jun 2018 #199

"Greasy Grace" is one way Christians evade accountability Bretton Garcia Jun 2018 #200

well, be an atheist ollie10 Jun 2018 #202

Define "evangelical atheist" please. nt. Mariana Jun 2018 #203

Some one who is an atheist but acts like an evangelical ollie10 Jun 2018 #206

You're misusing the word "evangelical". Mariana Jun 2018 #216

you're right, maybe evangelical is the wrong word ollie10 Jun 2018 #217

Those aren't all exact synonyms marylandblue Jun 2018 #218

I gave a few descriptions ollie10 Jun 2018 #219

Because it seems unclear, at least to me marylandblue Jun 2018 #221

I am sorry if it is unclear for you ollie10 Jun 2018 #222

Don't be arrogant yourself marylandblue Jun 2018 #223

He's criticizing atheist behavior, of course. Mariana Jun 2018 #224

as we see up thread that seems to deprive Ollie of his right to believe stuff. Voltaire2 Jun 2018 #225

I guess that means he can't be a Christian anymore. Mariana Jun 2018 #226

Maybe his ... replies are morse code? Voltaire2 Jun 2018 #227

... Mariana Jun 2018 #229

I am not the only poster on this board to use the ... Even the OP did! ollie10 Jun 2018 #233

no. i made myself clear. didn't say that ollie10 Jun 2018 #232

I don't know why you're getting upset and offended. Mariana Jun 2018 #234

I am a democrat. dissing a religion is contrary to democratic principles ollie10 Jun 2018 #238

Could you clarify that statement please? Voltaire2 Jun 2018 #240

let me be clear ollie10 Jun 2018 #241

So all religions. Voltaire2 Jun 2018 #242

Isis is not a religion, last I checked ollie10 Jun 2018 #243

Isis has religious leaders. Voltaire2 Jun 2018 #245

I will try to spell it out so that even you can understand ollie10 Jun 2018 #246

Didn't answer the question at all. Voltaire2 Jun 2018 #248

why would you want to? ollie10 Jun 2018 #249

Why would I want to disrespect religious beliefs Voltaire2 Jun 2018 #265

so circular logic? ollie10 Jun 2018 #266

Do you think that abhorrent and Voltaire2 Jun 2018 #268

It is only your contemptuous opinion ollie10 Jun 2018 #269

It was a simple question: do you think harmful and abhorrent beliefs Voltaire2 Jun 2018 #271

It depends ollie10 Jun 2018 #273

One more time before I conclude that you Voltaire2 Jun 2018 #275

one more time before I conclude that you are simply being rude ollie10 Jun 2018 #276

And once again you cannot answer the question Voltaire2 Jun 2018 #277

This message was self-deleted by its author ollie10 Jun 2018 #278

nice bit of projection there, friend! ollie10 Jun 2018 #279

There views we all agree are so abhorrent, nobody wants to own them marylandblue Jun 2018 #280

True enough ollie10 Jun 2018 #282

You just conflated respect for rights Voltaire2 Jun 2018 #285

you. just. don't. get. it. ollie10 Jun 2018 #286

Well, you have an answer. Mariana Jun 2018 #252

how much grease did you have to use to twist logic that far? ollie10 Jun 2018 #255

Would you please spell President Obama's name correctly? Mariana Jun 2018 #257

Oh the spelling/typo gestapo is alive and well! ollie10 Jun 2018 #260

Well, you can badmouth Evangelical Christians, I guess. Mariana Jun 2018 #259

crickets ollie10 Jun 2018 #261

Ollie, here is a link to the Democratic Party Platform. Mariana Jun 2018 #250

Don't you agree with Hillary and Barack? ollie10 Jun 2018 #251

I see. When we do it, it's in opposition to Democratic principles. Mariana Jun 2018 #256

nice try ollie10 Jun 2018 #258

The important part is you found a way to feel superior to people who feel superior to people. Act_of_Reparation Jun 2018 #267

As opposed, I guess, to people who are just self-righteous in general marylandblue Jun 2018 #236

there are self righteous people in the evangelical right ollie10 Jun 2018 #239

oh please. I was clear ollie10 Jun 2018 #231

Suit yourself marylandblue Jun 2018 #235

bunk ollie10 Jun 2018 #237

I am not sure why you think it's bunk marylandblue Jun 2018 #244

who here is advocating that your right to believe any goofy nonsense you choose Voltaire2 Jun 2018 #204

Thanks for illustrating ollie10 Jun 2018 #207

as usual a vapid empty irrelevant response. Voltaire2 Jun 2018 #208

... ollie10 Jun 2018 #210

Try defending your statement: religious people have a right to their beliefs too Voltaire2 Jun 2018 #211

... ollie10 Jun 2018 #212

I'll take that as conceding that your point is indefensible. Voltaire2 Jun 2018 #213

.... ollie10 Jun 2018 #214

And a 4 dotter response is: begging for forgiveness Voltaire2 Jun 2018 #215

... ollie10 Jun 2018 #220

You bring up Nazi beliefs ollie10 Jun 2018 #270

So, you'll allow someone to be an atheist, MineralMan Jun 2018 #205

... ollie10 Jun 2018 #209

It's hard to argue with liberal Christians and religious millennials. Bretton Garcia Jun 2018 #247

This message was self-deleted by its author ollie10 Jun 2018 #262

However? I thank you for mentioning these sermons Bretton Garcia Jun 2018 #272

As they say...speak for yourself ollie10 Jun 2018 #274

Presenting other liberal Christian doctrines,.would. be useful, Bretton Garcia Jun 2018 #289

Some lying is prohibited, but slavery, child rape, and killing kids for disobedience isn't Major Nikon May 2018 #103

As if JESUS has anything to do with the VAST VAST VAST majority of christians. Eliot Rosewater May 2018 #151

I don't know about the numbers.... ollie10 May 2018 #154

Thanks for shinning a light Wellstone ruled May 2018 #3

MM saidsimplesimon May 2018 #11

Well, we all follow our own unique path. MineralMan May 2018 #12

You are welcome. saidsimplesimon May 2018 #14

It works for Republicans CaseyinSeattle May 2018 #15

I paused when reading this, guillaumeb May 2018 #17

Still, you managed to squeeze out a content-free, snarky reply MineralMan May 2018 #18

I like to match the reply to the post. guillaumeb May 2018 #20

More irrelevancies... MineralMan May 2018 #21

Ironic. eom guillaumeb May 2018 #22

In that spirit, you are wrong Major Nikon May 2018 #88

We disagree. eom guillaumeb May 2018 #93

You're still wrong. Major Nikon May 2018 #97

Hi MineralMan - Thank you for starting this discussion. Pendrench May 2018 #29

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. MineralMan May 2018 #30

You are very welcome. Pendrench May 2018 #32

When the bible is metaphorical, as some insist, anything can be a Christian value Major Nikon May 2018 #55

I have reached a different coinclusion vlyons May 2018 #77

I think you chose the wrong word Cartoonist May 2018 #78

If God created us in his own image, we have more than reciprocated. Major Nikon May 2018 #87

Either that or there are certainly not many real Christians in America. Seems to me the majority of OregonBlue May 2018 #104

Well, I know a few people who try very hard to live in a way MineralMan May 2018 #105

Agreed. I have met some real Christians in my life and they were absolutely amazing. They are few OregonBlue May 2018 #109

I'm not convinced it was any different back then Major Nikon May 2018 #127

And yet, most of those Christians' faith in Christ is real Mariana May 2018 #132

The bible is perfectly clear Major Nikon May 2018 #168

Just 'cause they're bad christians, doesn't mean they're not christians. Iggo Jun 2018 #198

American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America malchickiwick May 2018 #128

Yes, the goal of the Dominionists should be in all of our minds. MineralMan May 2018 #129

I have always loved your posts.... chillfactor Jun 2018 #201

It's All About White Male Supremacy dlk Jun 2018 #228

You may well have something there. MineralMan Jun 2018 #230

I was told that they can do anything because WhiteTara Jun 2018 #253

Well, as an atheist, I don't believe a word of that. MineralMan Jun 2018 #254

When I pointed that out, the man sort WhiteTara Jun 2018 #263

Yup. They tend to do that. MineralMan Jun 2018 #264

Yet another thread hijacked by irrelevant subthreads MineralMan Jun 2018 #281

They're not entirely useless. Act_of_Reparation Jun 2018 #283

Well, there is that, of course. MineralMan Jun 2018 #284

The sub threads are illustrative of your op's thesis. Voltaire2 Jun 2018 #287

Aha! So they are... MineralMan Jun 2018 #288