Religion

Bretton Garcia

(970 posts)

100. In that case?

Thu Mar 30, 2017, 05:46 AM

Mar 2017

Even if secularism was not entirely accurate always, even then, neither is religion. And in any case, secularism provides an additional and sometimes obviously productive point of view, aside from blind faith.

Science is especially productive.

You can say it's not incompatable with religion in some ways. But it's quite different from at least some kinds of religion. Especially? It does not accept things on faith. Instead it demands proof.

Ultimately to be sure, I think the Bible itself backs off faith. To support science. But the vast majority of Christians don't know that.They follow the more common but false idea of religion. That sees it following faith, not science.

Religious people should follow science, over faith. But they don't.

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March 25 good news: 84 percent of the world population has faith........ [View all] guillaumeb Mar 2017 OP

To me, that's bad news. DavidDvorkin Mar 2017 #1

Glass half full versus glass half empty? eom guillaumeb Mar 2017 #12

No, it's bad news that it's so high DavidDvorkin Mar 2017 #20

Can't say I agree -nt Bradical79 Mar 2017 #2

Quick questions: Lordquinton Mar 2017 #3

Henry Dawkins for the first two. rug Mar 2017 #4

That's a real stretch Lordquinton Mar 2017 #5

Post removed Post removed Mar 2017 #6

Your first post in a week and it's a personal attack? Lordquinton Mar 2017 #7

Oh I think we can do better. For instance wasn't the first slave ship named after Jesus? beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #8

Mark Twain had much to say on the subject of peace and religion: beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #9

That's a good, and overlooked point Lordquinton Mar 2017 #10

I thought about that too but for eight years we made it clear we weren't in a holy war with Islam. beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #16

That is true. Lordquinton Mar 2017 #17

LIKE pangaia Mar 2017 #36

:) beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #45

Do you subscribe to the "great man" theory of history? guillaumeb Mar 2017 #13

Many slaveholders were religious Lordquinton Mar 2017 #15

Except religious abolitionists went against their own holy book when they opposed slavery. beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #18

I follow the New Testament. eom guillaumeb Mar 2017 #25

Was slavery forbidden in the New Testament? beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #46

Fit the concept into "Do unto others" and you tell me. eom guillaumeb Mar 2017 #54

If that was such an important concept why did so many Christians support slavery? beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #57

If you ask me my personal opinion on these issues, guillaumeb Mar 2017 #58

Yes - but again said atheists aren't citing a holy book to support those positions. beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #61

Absurd is one word. Sad is another. eom guillaumeb Mar 2017 #66

They cite the holy book of profit and loss and progress HopeAgain Mar 2017 #101

Oh? We have a holy book? And what's this 'atheist bible' called? beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #107

You are painting all people with faith with a broad brush... HopeAgain Mar 2017 #109

Really? Quoting the bible is "attacking faith" and stating facts is "stereotyping" people? beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #111

Most Christians do not take everything in the Bible literally or apply ancient laws to modern life.. HopeAgain Mar 2017 #113

Since I never actually said that you're using a straw man. beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #114

Taking the specific and generalizing it to the whole.. HopeAgain Mar 2017 #123

Didn't I ask you to stop misrepresenting my posts? beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #128

A large number of athiest HopeAgain Mar 2017 #132

A large number of theists do the same every weekend in church. beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #134

And we need to remember how HopeAgain Mar 2017 #135

More logical fallacies? beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #136

Wow, what a blind spot... HopeAgain Mar 2017 #137

Cite your source please. beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #138

And how many different interpretations are there for these?: beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #112

Straw Argument HopeAgain Mar 2017 #143

Again - not a straw man since you suggested there were different interpretations. beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #144

Interesting. I googled your religious "scholar" and it appears I was correct. beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #145

You are going to believe what you want to believe HopeAgain Mar 2017 #149

This isn't about belief, it's about facts and history -apologists distort both to pimp their agenda. beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #152

So to sum it all up HopeAgain Mar 2017 #155

Not quite but we're getting there. beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #156

"Slaves, obey your masters": Paul, in the New Teatament Bretton Garcia Apr 2017 #158

Matt 10:34 NeoGreen Mar 2017 #102

Define metaphor. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #105

And apply that definition too... NeoGreen Mar 2017 #108

There are literalists, and not-literalists. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #116

Piffle... NeoGreen Mar 2017 #119

In that vein, guillaumeb Mar 2017 #122

You prove my point... NeoGreen Mar 2017 #125

"But religion is a force for great good." Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #11

Patriotism can also be a force for good, guillaumeb Mar 2017 #14

I assume you're trying to make some sort of point here. Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #22

The point is that people justify what they do by saying that they are following a code of behavior. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #26

But you can't point to line and verse in the patriot book Lordquinton Mar 2017 #31

I can point to the Monroe Doctrine, guillaumeb Mar 2017 #32

So what book are they pointing to in the writing of those documents? Lordquinton Mar 2017 #33

I am not Monroe or Carter. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #37

So you can't support your claims? Lordquinton Mar 2017 #43

If you are familiar with the Monroe and Carter Doctrines, guillaumeb Mar 2017 #53

Ok but... Lordquinton Mar 2017 #63

I'm pretty familiar with it. Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #72

And in an atheistic society like Russia or China, guillaumeb Mar 2017 #78

Russia is an "atheistic society"? Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #83

Thank you for your response. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #84

That's a fairly audacious deployment of snark given how egregiously wrong you are. Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #99

[ Citation Required ] AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #103

[ Clarification of meaning required ] guillaumeb Mar 2017 #106

Please provide an example of nationalism being a 'good thing'. AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #110

I leave that to each individual. eom guillaumeb Mar 2017 #117

But you made a claim... and you refuse to support it? AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #140

If you insist, guillaumeb Mar 2017 #141

MIGHT be an example of nationalism. Not all soldiers do so. AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #146

Ohh..ohh...May I play?... NeoGreen Mar 2017 #120

Nicey done. AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #139

Thanks, and classifying people as the 'other' also works for... NeoGreen Mar 2017 #150

Why isn't slavery forbidden in the ten commandments? beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #19

Proving that people can quote excerpts from the Old Testament. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #27

That is actually not what was said Lordquinton Mar 2017 #35

But it was a point that I wished to make. eom guillaumeb Mar 2017 #38

You wanted to make an unrelated point? Lordquinton Mar 2017 #44

Straw man. Please show me where I discussed and/or determined their motivation. beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #47

I make no such claims. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #55

False equivalency. There is no holy book instructing atheists to enslave, torture and murder people. beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #59

If any wish to whitewash history here I will join you. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #60

And I focus on religion's victims because they're often ignored when people discuss the good news. beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #64

Very true. eom guillaumeb Mar 2017 #67

Those who decry harsh religious beliefs always need to look closer to home. gordianot Mar 2017 #34

Indeed. beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #48

Correct gordianot Mar 2017 #49

One of those so called bathroom bills just failed in Tennessee. beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #50

For the most part religion has been a positive force in my life. hrmjustin Mar 2017 #21

Mine also. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #28

The good news, as you say, is when that faith Htom Sirveaux Mar 2017 #23

True. Very true. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #29

All faith is logically arrogance Bretton Garcia Mar 2017 #24

Faith is about belief. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #30

or is it about suspending disbelief JenniferJuniper Mar 2017 #39

Or is it.......... guillaumeb Mar 2017 #40

It's not just believing in something that cannot be "proven" JenniferJuniper Mar 2017 #41

And that huge difference in our viewpoints is understood. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #42

We were often told to believe. And not to ask for proofs Bretton Garcia Mar 2017 #69

Metaphoric lobotomies? guillaumeb Mar 2017 #70

Jesuit schools ARE better than Catechism class. Bretton Garcia Mar 2017 #73

The last shall be first: guillaumeb Mar 2017 #79

In that case? Bretton Garcia Mar 2017 #100

Going back to scientific illiteracy: guillaumeb Mar 2017 #104

Paul and Jesus twisted the Old Testament into spiritual metaphors Bretton Garcia Mar 2017 #148

Consider the circumstances. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #153

But? These hells were real. Physical. Bretton Garcia Apr 2017 #157

But the vision of what constitutes hell is changeable. guillaumeb Apr 2017 #159

But the notion of a miserable place is core? Bretton Garcia Apr 2017 #160

The physical misery is mainly metaphorical. guillaumeb Apr 2017 #161

To your mind, did God create anything physical at all? Bretton Garcia Apr 2017 #162

The Creator created. guillaumeb Apr 2017 #163

In my reading, "hell" is short for "sheol." Which stood for the underground. Bretton Garcia Apr 2017 #164

Interersting questions. guillaumeb Apr 2017 #168

Where is your evidence for that statement? trotsky Apr 2017 #166

I was asked what my view was. guillaumeb Apr 2017 #169

You made it as a statement of fact, when it is absolutely not. trotsky Apr 2017 #171

In an opinion piece, one can expect to read opinions. guillaumeb Apr 2017 #172

Awesome. another quote for me to clip and save. trotsky Apr 2017 #173

Good news? Religion has been the cause of murder, torture, wars, oppression The Velveteen Ocelot Mar 2017 #51

Yeah, along with greed, anger, jealousy and megalomania.. whathehell Mar 2017 #52

An excellent answer. eom guillaumeb Mar 2017 #56

This message was self-deleted by its author ymetca Mar 2017 #62

There is oppression being committed by the nominally atheistic rulers in Russia. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #68

False equivalency. They may BE atheists but they don't do it in the name of atheism. AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #71

What can you know of their actual motivation? guillaumeb Mar 2017 #80

Two reasons. AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #86

Perhaps they hide their motivation. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #89

Well, I'm not a mind reader, but I see no reason to think, for the additional reasons I outlined, AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #92

Wait. What? Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #75

Good point. I assumed he was referring to the Soviet era. AtheistCrusader Mar 2017 #87

You mean oppression carried out by the Orthodox rulers Lordquinton Mar 2017 #76

You should keep up - Putin and the ROC are responsible for oppressing lgbt people in Russia. beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #115

From your source: guillaumeb Mar 2017 #118

Ah the return of the No True Scotsman. beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #121

The article you posted proves nothing of the sort. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #124

It's proof that religious leaders are responsible for anti-lgbt discrimination in Russia. beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #126

Clearly these videos are proof guillaumeb Mar 2017 #127

Does the Pope go to interfaith services claiming to be a devout Jew or Muslim? Act_of_Reparation Mar 2017 #130

No they're proof that both men pray and accept communion just like other theists. beam me up scottie Mar 2017 #131

On balance... Snackshack Mar 2017 #65

Would I rather live in a secular country edhopper Mar 2017 #74

"We hold these truths to be self evident....." guillaumeb Mar 2017 #81

Yes, it always has been edhopper Mar 2017 #85

I believe that there is much distance between ideal and practice. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #88

And do you think any country edhopper Mar 2017 #90

Any type of theocracy would not be my preferred country. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #91

So whether edhopper Mar 2017 #93

Good and evil both exist in the actions of people. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #94

and the gods edhopper Mar 2017 #95

Perhaps the Creator feels that free will is what is meant by guillaumeb Mar 2017 #96

I am told edhopper Mar 2017 #97

I certainly cannot. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #98

Religion can be a force for great good radical noodle Mar 2017 #77

I agree. Nuance is appreciated. eom guillaumeb Mar 2017 #82

The only time religion is good is when BigRig Mar 2017 #129

I disagree, but welcome to DU. guillaumeb Mar 2017 #133

Does the following reflect your sentiment?... NeoGreen Mar 2017 #142

Close BigRig Mar 2017 #147

Men are at the forefront of the "pissing-while-standing"-movement. DetlefK Mar 2017 #151

But who decides what is considered more influential? eom guillaumeb Mar 2017 #154

One doesn't really need to "search" for bad things religious people do. trotsky Apr 2017 #165

Exactly what I AM doing. guillaumeb Apr 2017 #167

You're doing part of it. trotsky Apr 2017 #170