Jane Sanders: We're Going To Hold Clinton Accountable After Endorsing Her

[merrily]

224. While *almost* technically true, your post is deceptively overly simplified.

First, my post was replying to posts implying all a President can do is bully and veto or not veto, as if they cannot have anything else to do with a bill. So, my post pointed out a number of profound bills that started in the White House. That is a separate issue from why and how FDR and LBJ got legislation thru. But, since you went there...


I know fans of New Democrats on DU love to make it like all FDR and LBJ had to do was snap their fingers, because that makes them seem no better than other Presidents at getting legislation passed. However, they often had enormous problems within their own party. The majority in Congress with a (D) after its name did not automatically translate to getting a majority of votes easily. While the party had a majority, the bills did not necessarily have one initially. The majority was the result of the South being included and the northern Democrats and Southern Democrats often clashed, with the South digging in on race and others digging in on $$.

Also, Roosevelt was not merely passing legislation, he was changing the interpretation of the Constitution that had stood since 1789, when it was first ratified. He was passing legislation that many, including within his own party, considered seriously unconstitutional--wholly outside the power of the federal government. Before Roosevelt, the Commerce Clause had not been construed expansively, which was the reason the SCOTUS kept striking down New Deal legislation. So, FDR was not only fighting Republicans and people within his own party on $$ and overreach; he was also fighting the Supreme Court. Meanwhile, his health sucked, the country was circling in the toilet and Hitler was running amok. Nonetheless, he got tons of unprecedented legislation written and passed very quickly and cowed the Court, two huge accomplishments. How fast and effectively he moved in the first 100 days of his administration is the reason every President since has been looked at after 100 days.

The huge majority Johnson had depended on the South, which was virulently opposed the Civil Rights Act, tag teaming a filibuster for days and days. Getting that bill passed took A LOT on Johnson's part--negotiating, arm twisting, flattering, invoking JFK while the nation was still in shock and grief, etc. If it was such a cake walk, he sure wasted a hell of a lot of time and energy--and so had JFK before him, who had started negotiation the bill before he was shot. That took a coalition, too, of Republicans and Northern Democrats and, IIRC, Everett Dirksen, who Johnson promised would go down in history because of the Civil Rights bill (LOL!). See, among many other sources, http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/civil_rights/cloture_finalpassage.htm

FDR and LBJ were phenoms and, as stated above, that is not merely my opinion, but that of historians.

However, you are right that cloture was not 60 votes then. It usually took more votes than 60 then, especially on important legislation,when most Senators would be present unless on a death bed.

A similar procedure was adopted in 1917 by the Senate of the United States. This was invoked for the first time on November 15, 1919,[23] during the 66th Congress, to end filibuster on the Treaty of Versailles.[24]

The Senate's cloture rule originally[25] required a supermajority of two-thirds of all senators "present and voting" to be considered filibuster-proof.[26][27] For example, if all 100 Senators voted on a cloture motion, 67 of those votes would have to be for cloture for it to pass; however if some Senators were absent and only 80 Senators voted on a cloture motion, only 54 would have to vote in favor.[28] However, it proved very difficult to achieve this; the Senate tried eleven times between 1927 and 1962 to invoke cloture but failed each time. Filibuster was particularly heavily used by Democratic Senators from Southern states to block civil rights legislation.[29]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloture

Of course, Democrats had an opportunity to get rid of cloture, but they chose not to. Wonder why?

BTW, my post mentioned ACA as well, for modern legislation. That started in the White House, too, and I personally have been told at least 100 times on DU, and read it here many more times, that Obama did not have the votes he needed to do as he wished with that bill. But, it was historic legislation; it did start in the WH and he did get it passed.