General Discussion

kysrsoze

(6,372 posts)

107. I feel the exact same way.

Sun Jul 9, 2017, 06:06 AM

Jul 2017

If you possess true Democratic principles, you don't shit all over Democratic Party candidates and pretend there's no consequence to voting and campaigning against them. Anyone who feels the opposite should take a good hard look at that photo of Jill Stein at the dinner table with Putin. On his most subversive day, Bernie Sanders never went that far. To absolute hell with the Green Party for never attempting to push their agenda in way that would actually work and for actively campaigning against Democratic candidates. It was never an effort against Republicans. It was always that bullshit about both parties being the same, when anyone with even a shred of critical thought knew that wasn't true. Their shallow, absolutist approach never benefitted anyone but Republican candidates.

If you find this diatribe unacceptable, you're welcome to start your own website; www.greenunderground.com, perhaps? Just don't expect anyone here to support your lack of support for our efforts.

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In 18 years since Naders run, what has been accomplished by complaining about it? [View all] ZX86 Jul 2017 OP

Raising awareness of how Rove funded Nader and Putin paid Stein is important. american_ideals Jul 2017 #1

That's not the issue I'm talking about. ZX86 Jul 2017 #3

Distinction without a difference. Nader,Stein supported by Putin, Rove, GOP. sharedvalues Jul 2017 #4

"If you like Putin, vote for Stein.' ZX86 Jul 2017 #7

How about natl holiday on election day, and "Putin pays Stein" sharedvalues Jul 2017 #8

Just so you know. ZX86 Jul 2017 #26

Yup you nailed it in 1. stevenleser Jul 2017 #139

You don't hear GOPers still bitching about Ross Perot leftstreet Jul 2017 #2

Did big Dem donors support Perot? Did a foreign power pay him? sharedvalues Jul 2017 #5

Is this your first time at the rodeo? ZX86 Jul 2017 #6

You are now using Whataboutism. sharedvalues Jul 2017 #9

You're saying "what about" Nader and Stein. ZX86 Jul 2017 #18

That is laughable. Nader and Stein are the topic of this thread that YOU created. BzaDem Jul 2017 #101

Trump said the same thing today! How interesting to hear this here. Cough cough. bettyellen Jul 2017 #10

He also said Bush didn't keep us safe on 9/11. ZX86 Jul 2017 #19

Yeah- he's as full of shit to compare his campaigns relationship w Russian bettyellen Jul 2017 #39

Corruption in politics is not a normal regular occurrence? ZX86 Jul 2017 #46

Ah that broad brush "they're all corrupt" crap that suppresses the vote as much as crosscheck does.. bettyellen Jul 2017 #53

I didn't say they are all corrupt. ZX86 Jul 2017 #60

Crosscheck is a GOP scam to disenfranchise voters of color and those in Dem areas, period. It has bettyellen Jul 2017 #62

So you are completely oblivious to the direct connection ZX86 Jul 2017 #63

You never said it was normal for the GOP- you smeared both sides with your whataboutist crap. bettyellen Jul 2017 #64

Since when did criticizing money in politics ZX86 Jul 2017 #66

Which ignores the funding third part candidates get. And ignores the huge policy differences between bettyellen Jul 2017 #67

Huge policy differences? ZX86 Jul 2017 #91

Yeah, Hillary is awful for settling for 12 hour at a time when the minimum wage is being rolled back bettyellen Jul 2017 #117

This is the problem. ZX86 Jul 2017 #118

Bullshit. The largest increase in minimum wage would be great! Cutting it is shit! It's you that bettyellen Jul 2017 #119

I don't consider Republican crumbs tangible gains. ZX86 Jul 2017 #121

I don't believe a hyper exaggerated word you say. States have cut the minimum to 7 an hour because bettyellen Jul 2017 #123

This is my city. This is my daily reality. Shame on you for doubting the suffering of my neighbors. ZX86 Jul 2017 #130

And third party voters fucked those people over as bad as republicans did. bettyellen Jul 2017 #131

The people who voted for universal health care candidates ZX86 Jul 2017 #132

They set us on a regressive path where we're losing everything. Fuck this "not good enough" bettyellen Jul 2017 #133

No. Not good enough. ZX86 Jul 2017 #138

Thank you. Exactly. sharedvalues Jul 2017 #122

Awkwardly the largest individual donor it 2016 was Tom Steyer mythology Jul 2017 #57

Good catch. ZX86 Jul 2017 #61

Those who don't learn from history are condemned to repeat it. pnwmom Jul 2017 #11

Those who don't learn from history are condemned to repeat it. ZX86 Jul 2017 #20

Neither Al Gore nor Hillary Clinton acted with "smug paternalism." pnwmom Jul 2017 #28

So what are you going to do about it? ZX86 Jul 2017 #30

If that was your top priority you wouldn't worry that Democrats were hurting their cause pnwmom Jul 2017 #31

You're the one not being realistic. ZX86 Jul 2017 #32

Yeah, and Jill Stein was simply exercising her right to take money from the Russians pnwmom Jul 2017 #33

You don't like Jill Stein. Got it. ZX86 Jul 2017 #37

Minimize the terrible affect the of the Greens...so people will understand voting for them is a vote Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #86

Nader did NOT hand Florida to Bush*... Raster Jul 2017 #52

Every single one of the 95K Nader voters would NOT have had to vote for Gore pnwmom Jul 2017 #55

Let me see if I have this straight. ZX86 Jul 2017 #65

They were former Democrats who hadn't bothered to change the registrations pnwmom Jul 2017 #69

So it's okay for lazy Democrats to vote for Republicans ZX86 Jul 2017 #72

They aren't lazy Democrats. They're Republicans who haven't bothered to pnwmom Jul 2017 #73

Republicans who haven't bothered to change their old registrations..... ZX86 Jul 2017 #75

Yes. Lazy Republicans who haven't voted Democratic since Reagan, pnwmom Jul 2017 #76

Well that's just not the way it works. ZX86 Jul 2017 #83

That is exactly how it works...if you ever participated in GOTV you would know that... Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #87

Thanks for the reality check, Demsrule86 . n/t pnwmom Jul 2017 #94

It is a trip getting out the vote in Ohio sometimes... Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #109

Tell that to 538 and the professional pollsters. pnwmom Jul 2017 #93

some of this is also because of local and state politics. remember that disgusting Kim Davis was a JI7 Jul 2017 #100

Nader falsely claims to have progressive goals. Bush does not. BzaDem Jul 2017 #105

the Greens are not close to us. the purpose of the Green Party is to help republicans win JI7 Jul 2017 #12

Meanwhile, Gary Johnson took 3X the amount of Reps from Trump, than what Stein took from Dems. TheBlackAdder Jul 2017 #13

none of that changes the fact about the goal of greens being to help republicans JI7 Jul 2017 #14

None of that changes the fact that ZX86 Jul 2017 #24

Greens aren't winning JI7 Jul 2017 #43

That's like bragging about stealing candy from a baby. ZX86 Jul 2017 #70

Is a backlash against minorities gaining power. When we had more seats it was conservative democrats JI7 Jul 2017 #92

So we should complain more about Ralph Nader? ZX86 Jul 2017 #116

Most of us can talk about many things JI7 Jul 2017 #129

So? Gary isn't pretending to be a progressive, unlike Stein. n/t pnwmom Jul 2017 #29

More Democrats vote Republican before breakfast ZX86 Jul 2017 #22

We don't pretend they are liberals JI7 Jul 2017 #44

That is a meaningless statistic because there is no test to register for any of the major parties stevenleser Jul 2017 #124

Nader gave us United, two wars, a rightie court, Katrina deaths and in the end an economy that was Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #15

Nader participated in the Democratic process. ZX86 Jul 2017 #23

We have a two party system...Nader deliberately helped the GOP. Fuck him and all Green traitors. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #25

We have a Democracy where every American has a right to run for office. ZX86 Jul 2017 #27

Greens have a right well so do Republicans...and I despise both...they are the same. Fuck the Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #34

Nobody is banning them running. JI7 Jul 2017 #45

Then what's the point of blaming them for losing? ZX86 Jul 2017 #47

because their fuckery led to worse outcomes for people.. JHan Jul 2017 #51

I feel the exact same way. kysrsoze Jul 2017 #107

Same reason we can complain about republicans in solid red areas we will never beat JI7 Jul 2017 #59

"we will never beat" ZX86 Jul 2017 #74

Solid red areas are people who have right wing views JI7 Jul 2017 #77

I'm not the one insisting they are ridgid and unchangable. ZX86 Jul 2017 #80

Nope. They can change if they want to JI7 Jul 2017 #81

Because their (legal) run caused the R victory? Is this really that difficult? n/t BzaDem Jul 2017 #104

Complaing about how the Democratic process works ZX86 Jul 2017 #112

I think you are confused about what people are arguing. BzaDem Jul 2017 #127

Exposing the real motives of candidates is an important and essential part of political campaigning" ZX86 Jul 2017 #134

Let's see where that type of third grade logic leads. BzaDem Jul 2017 #142

You want to know who else participated in the Democratic process? Trump, Bush, McCain, and Romney. BzaDem Jul 2017 #103

Yes. Exactly. Spot on! ZX86 Jul 2017 #113

So if Romney and Ryan want to end Medicare as we know it, we should not attack them? BzaDem Jul 2017 #128

Attack them with what? ZX86 Jul 2017 #137

If you can't defend your "don't attack the other side" view without changing the subject BzaDem Jul 2017 #141

He became a scapegoat. milestogo Jul 2017 #16

Wrong. He became a pariah. nt Skidmore Jul 2017 #17

No he was a spoiler...and became a pariah as he should have. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #21

Whatever one thinks of Nader, if you continue to ignore THIS G_j Jul 2017 #35

Where was all the love and support for Auntie Maxine back then? ZX86 Jul 2017 #40

How can we know? If we could go back 18 years and not complain about it, would things be different? jobycom Jul 2017 #36

You're missing my point. ZX86 Jul 2017 #42

Oh. jobycom Jul 2017 #98

I'll jump in right here... ms liberty Jul 2017 #111

This should be an OP kcr Jul 2017 #114

awareness YCHDT Jul 2017 #38

I actually used it as an example of what happens when you vote Green to a person contemplating... Foamfollower Jul 2017 #41

Uhm....no you weren't. ZX86 Jul 2017 #49

Um, yes I WAS! Foamfollower Jul 2017 #54

And in those 18 years how many times did Nader run again? rock Jul 2017 #48

The goal is not to keep Nader from running for office. ZX86 Jul 2017 #50

Your're question was rock Jul 2017 #58

You have more patience than me brutus smith Jul 2017 #82

As had been said nobody is trying to keep him from running JI7 Jul 2017 #90

How many times did his Green party push a candidate for President? nt pnwmom Jul 2017 #95

Promoting awareness of the fact that the Green Party is a GOP ally. DanTex Jul 2017 #56

By your definition ZX86 Jul 2017 #79

All competing political parties are allies of Republicans in a two party system. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #85

Of course anyone who doesn't vote for Democrats is a GOP ally. Is that even remotely controversial? BzaDem Jul 2017 #102

So all Americans not presently Democrats are our enemy? ZX86 Jul 2017 #115

People who enable GOP victories (that harm millions of their fellow citizens) are GOP enablers. BzaDem Jul 2017 #126

Huh? No, that's not my definition at all. DanTex Jul 2017 #110

Heh. n/t Orsino Jul 2017 #68

Not enough. Clearly ismnotwasm Jul 2017 #71

Apparently, there is growing disquiet on the left. sfwriter Jul 2017 #78

Looks like we're going to have to start earning those votes the hard way ZX86 Jul 2017 #84

When Obama went into office he banned lobbyist which included some rich Dem voters...bad move. Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #88

If the left thinks they will get a better deal with Republicans that is up to them...I would say Demsrule86 Jul 2017 #89

I don't see the sense in rehashing and rehashing something 20 years old lovemydogs Jul 2017 #96

That these 3rd party runs generally F-up Democrats. Owl Jul 2017 #97

A lot has been accomplished. Nader's share dropped by 90% in 04, and remained low in 08/12. BzaDem Jul 2017 #99

You first (re: actions of MLK, Ghandi, Mandela). susanna Jul 2017 #106

Your post is offensive. ZX86 Jul 2017 #120

Exactly this. Claiming 12$ minimum wage is "republican crumbs" is total bullshit. bettyellen Jul 2017 #125

Yes. Republican crumbs. ZX86 Jul 2017 #140

The memes give you away. They're part of the slime Dems starter pack. bettyellen Jul 2017 #143

Unite as a political party or die as a political party. The redumbliCONs democratisphere Jul 2017 #108

Nader and the greens gave us the Iraq War, citizens United and Shelby County Gothmog Jul 2017 #135

Recommended. H2O Man Jul 2017 #136