General Discussion

DFW

(59,135 posts)

147. We are nearing the end of our vacation.

Mon Aug 1, 2016, 01:29 PM

Aug 2016

Had a great time, sorry to be leaving. This is such a beautiful, tranquil part of the world, inhabited by educated, down-to-earth real people. It's always a pain in the ass to get to from Düsseldorf, but worth it every time.

We're outta here Saturday, and the real world (i.e. my day job) begins again Tuesday. Looking for an interesting day or two in between--3000 miles to travel in the meantime, but we had to travel 4500 miles to get where we are now, so who's counting?

Spending our last week here with a full house--our daughter who lives in the USA came up from NYC with a friend, one of our housemates from Dallas is coming for a couple of days, and our friends who I mentioned in the previous post will be leaving tomorrow. The ship that bears her father's name will be commissioned in October, and we are making plans to be there with them when it happens.

I hope all is well with you likewise!

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Defending GMOs on grounds that they are not poisonous is like defending manufacturers who exploit [View all] Attorney in Texas Jul 2016 OP

There are labels that already exist to allow vegans and people who don't want GMOs to decide. NuclearDem Jul 2016 #1

If you're going broke at the grocery store katsy Jul 2016 #4

It is Monsanto, not organic farmers, who have stigmatized GMOs in my mind. Attorney in Texas Jul 2016 #5

+ 1 RapSoDee Jul 2016 #14

Yeah - I paid $1.69 for organic lettuce yesterday in Albuquerque - "I'm going broke" womanofthehills Aug 2016 #72

Indeed. HuckleB Aug 2016 #74

How about this reason- sublethal exposure to Glyphosate causes changes in antiobiotic susceptibility womanofthehills Aug 2016 #169

Crickets.............. PatSeg Aug 2016 #185

Derp. HuckleB Aug 2016 #217

Pshaw. Antibiotics, shmantibiotics! MH1 Aug 2016 #207

You do need science instead of pseudoscience, for starters. HuckleB Aug 2016 #218

How about another crap source of pseudoscience? HuckleB Aug 2016 #216

I'm with you Moliere Jul 2016 #2

Pray tell, how do organic food manufacturers keep pests off their crops? NuclearDem Jul 2016 #3

Skillful means RapSoDee Jul 2016 #15

"intelligence and skillful means" NuclearDem Jul 2016 #16

And it is a really, really good thing PatSeg Jul 2016 #21

Yield for organic crops IS lower than for non-organic crops. Adrahil Aug 2016 #112

Oh I don't know....People were eating for thousands of years before GMOs Armstead Jul 2016 #22

Actually we've been eating genetically modified food for as long as people have been around mythology Jul 2016 #23

We have not been eating glyphosate - which kills our stomach bacteria womanofthehills Jul 2016 #67

None of what you posted is accurate, and posting a video from a debunked scientist isn't... Humanist_Activist Jul 2016 #69

Because you say so... RapSoDee Aug 2016 #96

Good one! PatSeg Aug 2016 #186

Genetic modification is much more powerful than artificial selection. killbotfactory Aug 2016 #220

Right, a few problems with that. NuclearDem Jul 2016 #24

It is a tactic meant to ridicule PatSeg Jul 2016 #20

What does this have to do with glyphosate? See, the conflation of issues, not to mention ignorance.. Humanist_Activist Jul 2016 #46

This is an interesting video about how mice and squirels avoid GMO corn womanofthehills Aug 2016 #75

Try harder... Humanist_Activist Aug 2016 #78

+1 PatSeg Aug 2016 #95

To me madokie Jul 2016 #6

Plus, when the GMO cross pollinates with a crop grown on a neighboring non-GMO farm, the cross- Attorney in Texas Jul 2016 #9

Its a bad scene all around madokie Jul 2016 #10

You do realize that Monsanto actually pays the farmers as compensation for the contamination... Humanist_Activist Jul 2016 #42

Wrong. CanSocDem Aug 2016 #99

Wrong. Major Nikon Aug 2016 #104

Schmeiser knowingly kept the seed to replant the next year and violated his current seed contract... Humanist_Activist Aug 2016 #144

"likely" Major Nikon Aug 2016 #100

Yes PatSeg Jul 2016 #17

I think I have most of those on ignore madokie Jul 2016 #32

I've never put anyone PatSeg Jul 2016 #40

How is that unique to GMOs? n/t Humanist_Activist Jul 2016 #38

Actually the glyphosate is systemic and can't be washed off womanofthehills Jul 2016 #68

and now " the shit load of herbicides" increases as GMO crops need more and more herbicides womanofthehills Aug 2016 #97

Benbrook Major Nikon Aug 2016 #106

not true - more pesticides than ever are being used because of SUPERWEEDS!!!! womanofthehills Aug 2016 #145

Benbrook isn't full of shit, just ask Benbrook! Major Nikon Aug 2016 #148

Why don't all the non-GMO food producers label their food products "GMO Free"?... SidDithers Jul 2016 #7

Monsanto vs. the Milkman (2004): A Maine dairy fights for the right to wear its hormone-free label. proverbialwisdom Jul 2016 #12

Thanks! PatSeg Jul 2016 #18

Flags on the play... MohRokTah Jul 2016 #8

Perfect! longship Jul 2016 #11

Monsanto is actually a pretty ethical company, ZombieHorde Jul 2016 #13

Not really PatSeg Jul 2016 #19

Why do you disagree? nt ZombieHorde Jul 2016 #28

Reasons Major Nikon Aug 2016 #108

What makes them ethical? Rex Jul 2016 #25

The factories they use don't require suicide nets to keep ZombieHorde Jul 2016 #27

But what about their business model, I am glad they treat their employees that way. Rex Jul 2016 #29

I've never come across PatSeg Jul 2016 #30

This entire debate, that has been my only wonder. Rex Jul 2016 #31

I haven't really come across PatSeg Jul 2016 #45

I guess it is all about marketing and ultimately the two big players are Monsanto and Organics. Rex Jul 2016 #48

The organic food industry puts out a lot of false information to the public. ZombieHorde Aug 2016 #135

How do they treat farmers? From what I can tell, the only criticism... Humanist_Activist Jul 2016 #36

Monsanto treats some employees very badly - gives them cancer and then sues them womanofthehills Aug 2016 #154

Okay PatSeg Aug 2016 #158

Monsanto can go even lower - court records show Monsanto knew the health effects of PCB womanofthehills Aug 2016 #167

Why on earth would anyone here PatSeg Aug 2016 #168

They are a corporation in a cash-oriented world. ZombieHorde Jul 2016 #33

And monopolies are unethical, in my book. We have rules against such things for good reason. Rex Jul 2016 #35

They aren't even close to a monopoly though, they have less than half the marketshare... Humanist_Activist Jul 2016 #37

And yet they are the biggest seed company on the planet? Rex Jul 2016 #39

They are the largest seed company at 23%, that's not a monopoly... Humanist_Activist Jul 2016 #43

HA! Evidently you never read GMO-Organic threads! Rex Jul 2016 #47

The thing is that modern Monsanto is actually quite ethical and bends over backward to be fair... Humanist_Activist Jul 2016 #51

I've read a lot about that too and it does seem that way. Rex Jul 2016 #54

Don't know if GMOs can stamp out famine, but it doesn't hurt to try... Humanist_Activist Jul 2016 #61

The subject really isn't toxic on DU PatSeg Jul 2016 #49

You too have a good night! Rex Jul 2016 #50

Thanks! PatSeg Jul 2016 #57

I hear ya, I eat both and at times wonder what organic actually means. Rex Jul 2016 #60

Which practices? This is the issue, if there are real problematic practices, then list them for... Humanist_Activist Jul 2016 #53

Nope PatSeg Jul 2016 #59

Its not difficult, as long as its not the same recycled and debunked claims of the past... Humanist_Activist Jul 2016 #62

I don't know if they are the most ethical, but they're not ZombieHorde Jul 2016 #55

Also ending famine in this century will come about by scientific endeavors. Rex Jul 2016 #58

An example of this is Golden Rice and Beta Carotene enriched plantains... Humanist_Activist Jul 2016 #64

Golden rice may save millions of lives. ZombieHorde Jul 2016 #70

So where is this rice? katsy Aug 2016 #94

Not the golden rice stuff again - that's been going on for yrs and never came through womanofthehills Aug 2016 #71

And here you come demonstrating that lack of ethical concern, as long as your percieved side... Humanist_Activist Aug 2016 #73

Ethical concern??? Golden rice is too low producing compared to non GM womanofthehills Aug 2016 #76

You are hoping it will fail, hence the lack of ethics you display... Humanist_Activist Aug 2016 #79

It failed - it failing has nothing to do with my ethics womanofthehills Aug 2016 #83

Hello! Earth to ZH - Monsanto exposed their workers to Dioxin - how is that ethical? womanofthehills Aug 2016 #77

That was 40 years ago and I believe the case is still pending. ZombieHorde Aug 2016 #80

The PCP lawsuit was awarded in May 2016 womanofthehills Aug 2016 #82

Yes, but they haven't made PCBs since the 70s. ZombieHorde Aug 2016 #84

The glyphosate/cancer lawsuits are recent - womanofthehills Aug 2016 #86

The lawsuits are recent, but are for things that happened ZombieHorde Aug 2016 #87

So for 40 yrs Monsanto chose not to compensate people with cancer until forced womanofthehills Aug 2016 #98

We'll see how the trial plays out. nt ZombieHorde Aug 2016 #133

The trial already played out womanofthehills Aug 2016 #141

Yes! Chemicals bad!! Eko Jul 2016 #26

The problems you have with GMOs are endemic in all the food industry.. Humanist_Activist Jul 2016 #34

Actually, organic cannot have glyphosate womanofthehills Aug 2016 #85

One study says that. NuclearDem Aug 2016 #91

It isn't even a study, it was a biased meta-analysis that many scientists of the source studies... Humanist_Activist Aug 2016 #143

It's the cancer research division of the World Health Organization womanofthehills Aug 2016 #206

And? Even they say they didn't conduct any independent research on this issue... Humanist_Activist Aug 2016 #212

No it doesn't, how many times are you going to continue to lie? n/t Humanist_Activist Aug 2016 #142

Organic is becoming contaminated with glyphosate womanofthehills Aug 2016 #103

Demonizing GMOs because of made up bullshit is like being an antivaxxer or a CC denialist. Dr Hobbitstein Jul 2016 #41

Considering the BS this poster keeps posting, I don't think their handle is accurate. n/t Humanist_Activist Jul 2016 #44

Maybe the work for Rex Jul 2016 #52

Not saying that, a lot of people have ideological reasons to support one side or another.... Humanist_Activist Jul 2016 #56

Well I eat both types of food, the organic grown in my garden and of course food from HEB. Rex Jul 2016 #63

Nothing like the little dramatics you present. katsy Jul 2016 #65

What practices of Monsanto's do you not like? Can you articulate them? Humanist_Activist Jul 2016 #66

How about the practice of giving people cancer from dioxin, pcb's and Roundup womanofthehills Aug 2016 #81

Roundup doesn't cause cancer, how many times do you need to be told this? Humanist_Activist Aug 2016 #90

Roundup does cause cancer - how many times do I have to say this back. womanofthehills Aug 2016 #107

Repeating nonsense does not make it any less nonsense Major Nikon Aug 2016 #130

The cancer is usually non-hodgkins lymphomia - many lawsuits womanofthehills Aug 2016 #140

Get back to us with there's one actual case attributable to glyphosate Major Nikon Aug 2016 #146

The IARC sticks by it's decision womanofthehills Aug 2016 #157

Which isn't in agreement with what you said Major Nikon Aug 2016 #170

Please tell us who your employer is. roody Aug 2016 #88

Could you loosen the tinfoil hat? What business is it of yours? Humanist_Activist Aug 2016 #89

Oh, no, no, no PatSeg Aug 2016 #101

I trust no corporation that consumes 20% of their market share. Exilednight Aug 2016 #92

The lack of ethics alone PatSeg Aug 2016 #102

So do they have every bio-science lab in the world in their back pocket or what? Humanist_Activist Aug 2016 #149

No, they don't have every bio-science lab in their back pocket, but Exilednight Aug 2016 #201

Why are you talking about Monsanto? Dr Hobbitstein Aug 2016 #93

GMO's and Roundup = go together like a horse and a carriage, peas and carrots ..... womanofthehills Aug 2016 #111

No, they do not. Dr Hobbitstein Aug 2016 #113

Projection - Most of the world has rejected GMO's and Roundup womanofthehills Aug 2016 #105

Wrong Major Nikon Aug 2016 #109

NOT WRONG womanofthehills Aug 2016 #115

Still wrong Major Nikon Aug 2016 #117

Putin: Russia Will be World’s Largest Supplier of Healthy Organic Food womanofthehills Aug 2016 #121

So when your BS is busted you just sling some more Major Nikon Aug 2016 #123

No, they haven't. Dr Hobbitstein Aug 2016 #114

World’s Largest Country, Russia, Bans GMO Food Crops womanofthehills Aug 2016 #120

Russia also bans homosexuals. Dr Hobbitstein Aug 2016 #124

Diversionary tactic PatSeg Aug 2016 #187

They're both asinine things to do, based in fear and hatred, not facts. Dr Hobbitstein Aug 2016 #224

False equivalency PatSeg Aug 2016 #230

What, stating that a country has draconian laws WRT sexuality and science? Dr Hobbitstein Aug 2016 #231

Russia's ban on GM crops has nothing to do with health and safety NuclearDem Aug 2016 #193

+1 Marr Aug 2016 #136

Food labeling should be about safety.... Adrahil Aug 2016 #110

Funny how that part gets conveniently ignored Major Nikon Aug 2016 #116

Safety is not putting Roundup on America's food supply and corporations are getting it womanofthehills Aug 2016 #119

Wrong Major Nikon Aug 2016 #122

It's like talking to a brick wall. Dr Hobbitstein Aug 2016 #125

I don;t have an issue with companies labeling as non-GMO Adrahil Aug 2016 #137

I read an interesting book on the subject, and know some people directly affected by Monsanto. DFW Aug 2016 #118

hey friend, glad to see you back! steve2470 Aug 2016 #126

We are nearing the end of our vacation. DFW Aug 2016 #147

I support GMOs. Dr Hobbitstein Aug 2016 #127

I understand that DFW Aug 2016 #150

So long as you're not rallying for feel-good legislation with no basis in fact Dr Hobbitstein Aug 2016 #225

I'm not rallying for anything of the sort. DFW Aug 2016 #226

Monsanto didn't invent Agent Orange, it was invented before Monsanto was even a company... Humanist_Activist Aug 2016 #151

So they weren't aware? Or they tried to warn the gov't? ret5hd Aug 2016 #152

Correction, Monsanto warned the U.S. government about dioxin contamination in 1952... Humanist_Activist Aug 2016 #155

From the family of Elmo Zumwalt DFW Aug 2016 #153

Evidence? Like Wikipedia and its many sources? Humanist_Activist Aug 2016 #159

I don't use wikipedia. Ann's dead brother is a rather powerful source of evidence DFW Aug 2016 #171

Monsanto warned the US government about Agent Oranges harmful effects in 1952... Humanist_Activist Aug 2016 #183

from the wiki article steve2470 Aug 2016 #160

So when Monsanto became aware that they poisoned an entire town with agent orange womanofthehills Aug 2016 #156

Your info is out of date: Humanist_Activist Aug 2016 #164

From July 25, 2014 - Monsanto to pay $93 million womanofthehills Aug 2016 #205

Defending GMOs and corporations is not a progressive stance. bananakabob Aug 2016 #128

Bullshit Major Nikon Aug 2016 #131

Being against GMOs has nothing to do with "anti-science". bananakabob Aug 2016 #132

So what exactly is the scientific argument for being against GMO? Major Nikon Aug 2016 #134

Welcome to DU PatSeg Aug 2016 #163

So where's the science? Major Nikon Aug 2016 #177

Certain posters here have yet to produce any substantive arguments for their side. NuclearDem Aug 2016 #194

:D bananakabob Aug 2016 #190

There does seem to be a certain consistency PatSeg Aug 2016 #196

Dogmatic stances like this are not progressive. Marr Aug 2016 #138

This is a perfect example of the ideological blinders I mention in post 56. n/t Humanist_Activist Aug 2016 #166

Says a new poster. HuckleB Aug 2016 #215

Why do so many expect others to pay for their chemophobia? Major Nikon Aug 2016 #129

rubbish nationalize the fed Aug 2016 #189

Ah, that book. NuclearDem Aug 2016 #195

You really should better educate yourself on the subject Major Nikon Aug 2016 #197

Dr. Terry Simpson (whoever that is) vs these people nationalize the fed Aug 2016 #211

I was tempted to post PatSeg Aug 2016 #219

Sure, because using Seralini junk science is rock solid Major Nikon Aug 2016 #221

And you know, PatSeg Aug 2016 #208

You must be really old then Major Nikon Aug 2016 #222

Not all ingredients in ALL foods PatSeg Aug 2016 #229

All additives had to be listed as of 1938 by law Major Nikon Aug 2016 #232

please don't feed the anti-science hysteria.... mike_c Aug 2016 #139

Oh my! PatSeg Aug 2016 #161

Pseudoskepticism Major Nikon Aug 2016 #172

Okay PatSeg Aug 2016 #174

I don't agree that woo is a liberal trait. YMMV. Major Nikon Aug 2016 #176

I'm not seeing a whole lot of critical thinking PatSeg Aug 2016 #178

Probably because you don't know what it looks like Major Nikon Aug 2016 #180

Grass roots liberals are anti-science? Dr Hobbitstein Aug 2016 #181

I would call it bipartisan, mostly, with a slight left leaning slant. n/t Humanist_Activist Aug 2016 #165

Yes, let's invoke "science by name-calling, and proof by analogy!" immoderate Aug 2016 #184

It tends to work for some people evidently PatSeg Aug 2016 #188

I have no problem eating GMOs Loki Liesmith Aug 2016 #162

Actually GMO's are just part of the problem womanofthehills Aug 2016 #173

Mom's across America???? Dr Hobbitstein Aug 2016 #175

That's not even the best one Major Nikon Aug 2016 #179

Oh, I've seen.... Dr Hobbitstein Aug 2016 #182

Why do you hate a woman who has been so successful fighting corporations? womanofthehills Aug 2016 #200

Wrong as usual Major Nikon Aug 2016 #202

I would think it is because PatSeg Aug 2016 #209

Post removed Post removed Aug 2016 #203

"misogynistic"? You mean like your anti-abortion right wing hero, Mercola? Major Nikon Aug 2016 #204

Awww, I missed the comment before the jury got to it! nt Dr Hobbitstein Aug 2016 #223

How do you show anti-vaxxers are wrong about everything else? immoderate Aug 2016 #233

Because they display the same lack of critical thinking, reliance on faulty data and ancedotal... Humanist_Activist Aug 2016 #234

It's that easy?! Who woulda thunk it? immoderate Aug 2016 #235

Easy answers: Act_of_Reparation Aug 2016 #191

Non-GM, patented hybrid seed monopolized agribusiness 50 years ago. NickB79 Aug 2016 #192

Yes PatSeg Aug 2016 #198

The vast majority of farms in the US are already smaller than 100 acres Major Nikon Aug 2016 #199

Your link doesn't say that, though (smaller than 100 acres) NickB79 Aug 2016 #210

+1 PatSeg Aug 2016 #214

You are confusing average and median. They mean very different things. Major Nikon Aug 2016 #227

How do GMOs exploit children? uppityperson Aug 2016 #213

WTF GMOs are home grown. joshcryer Aug 2016 #228