General Discussion

daredtowork

(3,732 posts)

111. I wrote this post in response to this

Fri Feb 27, 2015, 03:31 AM

Feb 2015

I thanked this person for questioning the term "liberal", and what I got back was how loyal they were with the implication I was not:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6285349

I'm not going to back and search the past few weeks of DU, but this has happened frequently enough for me to be sick of it. This is not a "boggieman". There are many people on this forum who think when they twist another person's words they are somehow winning an argument, when they are actually just being annoying.

The entire "take the Democrat oath" thing did arise in response to Left Democrats saying that running Hillary as a candidate would lead to general voter apathy. The response to that was general grilling: "Are you saying YOU won't vote? You MUST be saying you won't vote!" Pretty soon it was "All these stupid DUers are saying they won't vote if we run Hillary!" So now it's "Take a loyalty oath that you WILL vote, if we run Hillary!"

Why is this oath even necessary at all? Last time I checked, voting booths were private.

If we unpack this all, it goes back to the original concern that running Hillary would lead to mass voter apathy. Shouldn't that be addressed rather than focusing so hard on whether a few people on DU can be maneuvered into the Hillary Oath?

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I am disgusted by the whole "party loyalty" meme [View all] daredtowork Feb 2015 OP

I have noticed Man from Pickens Feb 2015 #1

Not sure if you're referring to my post daredtowork Feb 2015 #7

I've noticed a segment that goes directly to insults. Don't worry about that segment. merrily Feb 2015 #56

DU can't make you vote a certain way, DU can't upaloopa Feb 2015 #163

I could give a shit about loyalty to a party that is almost as bought off as the cons are randys1 Feb 2015 #209

Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2015 #247

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Feb 2015 #2

There have already been many hints that DU's left does't belong here. merrily Feb 2015 #69

I hope not, I am as far left as you can get. Now those folks who say they are left but will randys1 Feb 2015 #211

I have not noticed you being very far left, but I'll take your word for it. merrily Mar 2015 #245

Post removed Post removed Feb 2015 #3

Cupcake? Ugh. merrily Feb 2015 #53

Do you have negative feelings against cupcakes? Old and In the Way Feb 2015 #63

I have a negative feeling toward condescension, esp. words associated with condescension to females. merrily Feb 2015 #66

Just for the record, I was not the one who alerted on your post. merrily Feb 2015 #71

i did alert on it SwampG8r Feb 2015 #73

You did not have to post that, so kudos to you for so doing. merrily Feb 2015 #82

i did it i own it SwampG8r Feb 2015 #87

You did own it. Not everyone would have, by any stretch. So, I am still giving you kudos, merrily Feb 2015 #92

so glad to see an ALERTER owning their Alert. AWESOME JOB, SwampG8r !! Thank-you Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2015 #201

You have hosts that make fun of alerters too.... bettyellen Feb 2015 #242

Thank you, Betty Ellen, for the information. That is very unfortunate about the hosts. merrily Mar 2015 #244

a group of very libertarian minded who fight to "leave everything" bettyellen Mar 2015 #246

I like juror 3's comment. BeanMusical Feb 2015 #130

+1 In_The_Wind Feb 2015 #144

Ugh indeed. Veilex Feb 2015 #149

Post removed Post removed Feb 2015 #4

Here is a problem, I have been a Democrat all of my life, have wanted different issues to develop Thinkingabout Feb 2015 #5

That's a fake issue right now daredtowork Feb 2015 #9

The 2014 Election gave a majority to the GOP in both the Senate and House. Thinkingabout Feb 2015 #13

Which means daredtowork Feb 2015 #23

What do you consider as the Demicrat base? Thinkingabout Feb 2015 #24

Whoever the Democrat candidate thinks is likely to vote for them. daredtowork Feb 2015 #47

Again, when an election is lost it is not the fault of the voters. The mid terms have been analyzed sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #239

Yes. The primary has not even begun yet. Preach! merrily Feb 2015 #83

Until the primary is over.... Adrahil Feb 2015 #225

Control of the Senate? As in 60 votes plus enough to counter all conservative Democrats? So, maybe merrily Feb 2015 #72

We have civil rights thanks to the following Supreme Court Justices" JDPriestly Feb 2015 #118

It's totally counterproductive if that's what they are trying to do, let them waste their money Fumesucker Feb 2015 #6

Yes, but during that decade, it was probably Republican radio, and the rw of the (R) party to boot. merrily Feb 2015 #90

Blaming the voters is probably one of the worst political strategies, if that what it is, sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #8

LoZoccolo again Fumesucker Feb 2015 #10

Exactly, which is why I wonder if it isn't the goal, to drive voters away. There is no other logical sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #18

Do you think your base is 44%? Thinkingabout Feb 2015 #28

Why do you think Democrats lost the House and the Senate? sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #34

Also note how fired up people were when Obama started doing more social things daredtowork Feb 2015 #48

They do not want the Left in the party other than to go vote and then stfu. sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #54

The party power brokers figure the left and African Americans have no choice, so tblue37 Feb 2015 #106

Yes, and that attitude has lost the Dem Party a lot of members. sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #109

Comments on distain and indifference toward left voters are unfortunate but not really appalachiablue Feb 2015 #241

Thank you. Jamastiene Feb 2015 #112

+1 it IS odd. nt laundry_queen Feb 2015 #146

Absolutely. LoZo was one of a few posters I put on ignore for that very reason. nt stillwaiting Feb 2015 #143

Oh but Lozo pissed off all the right people Capt. Obvious Feb 2015 #169

LoZoccolo was one of the greatest DUers this board has ever seen Dr. Strange Feb 2015 #243

Yep, I've entertained the double-agent GOP theory before daredtowork Feb 2015 #11

Make no mistake, they ARE here. Adrahil Feb 2015 #226

There is one I'm fairly sure of daredtowork Feb 2015 #232

"designed it to push voters away from the party" = seems that way to me, too. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #15

That's fine, but keep in mind.... Adrahil Feb 2015 #227

as i said: if it's a choice between crap and crap... ND-Dem Feb 2015 #236

Are you still hung up on the sports metaphors... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #19

As I see it, you are with us or you are against us, it is about uniting to win, I dont Thinkingabout Feb 2015 #29

Its really hard to tell.....willful? Or worse? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #33

And there is a perfect example of what the OP is about. WHO are you talking about when you say this: sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #37

Perhaps you have never read a post where it says if Hillary is the nominee Thinkingabout Feb 2015 #185

No, I have not seen anyone here say they will not vote. I have seen people say sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #188

Again who is "Us" daredtowork Feb 2015 #49

Democrats...the ones that are loyal to OTHER Democrats by agreeing to abide by and vote for OUR VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #155

So you would be loyal to, let's say, Lieberman, if he had been the nominee? sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #190

but he isn't and my fellow Democrats are NOT going to elect him.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #192

I believe you are now violating the TOS of this forum. You are accusing good Democrats here of sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #194

OH "I" am the one violating TOS? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #195

Yes, prove your false attack on other Democrats who you claimed are not Democrats. sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #198

"False attack" VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #199

You are attempting to wiggle out of what you just said. You falsely sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #202

I am not wiggling out of anything......I have ALWAYS held this position.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #205

Where have I heard that before......... davidpdx Feb 2015 #140

Democrats ARE expected to be loyal to those who elect them. I've explained this to you before, but sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #31

I am talking about US! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #36

Who chooses the people we are asked to elect? Do the people have any say in that? IF we are sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #43

WE DO!!!! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #44

Who is 'we'?? There IS NO CANDIDATE right now. WE WANT A SAY IN WHO THAT sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #45

There is no WE yet daredtowork Feb 2015 #55

Excellent post, thank you for explaining what is going on here far better than I have been able to sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #59

No....again you are obfuscating.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #156

And you're still hung up on demands for loyalty oaths Scootaloo Feb 2015 #95

Yes...loyalty to your fellow Democrats decision in the Primary! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #157

And you're pulling for Clinton, right? Scootaloo Feb 2015 #171

She has double digit leads over all Republicans today..... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #172

First off, some basic corrections Scootaloo Feb 2015 #180

NO...you are wrong... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #181

Warren, Biden, Sanders, Webb, O'Malley... which of these are the republican? Scootaloo Feb 2015 #214

Oh that was just about the "points" you were denying... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #216

yeah, I got that, but you said "republicans," then listed a bunch of Democrats Scootaloo Feb 2015 #218

OMG VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #220

VR, I know it's been explained to you before.. Scootaloo Feb 2015 #240

Sherrod Brown is another good Dem who might be interested in running. Russ Feingold sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #237

two words for you... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #182

I supported Obama because of his stand on the issues as opposed to Hillary's on the same issues. sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #183

WTF does this even have to do with what I just said... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #184

Speaking of the loyalty police......... davidpdx Feb 2015 #138

Loyalty Police? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #160

No one should ever accept anything at face value. Baitball Blogger Feb 2015 #204

I find it VERY effective for sorting the wheat from the chaff. VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #208

Ah. I may have jumped into the conversation midway. Baitball Blogger Feb 2015 #215

Thank you...THAT is my point... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #217

Thank you for proving my point davidpdx Feb 2015 #234

What Point would that be? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #235

+1 People show up in droves if they believe something significant in their lives will be affected. merrily Feb 2015 #85

And on the flipside Blue_Tires Feb 2015 #119

Exactly.....some are shallow...some are not! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #161

Then go out and find all those 'non-voters'. You won't find them here so your comment is irrelevant sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #165

So are you really claiming that you have NOT seen posts claiming that VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #177

My dear, I work at a university Blue_Tires Feb 2015 #224

I know the statistics on non voters. I also know that DUers vote. My response was wrt your sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #238

This should be an OP Marrah_G Feb 2015 #153

Yep, If a team makes bad calls and lose, they fire the coach! Cosmic Kitten Feb 2015 #154

According to the first one to make that analogy...the coaches are US! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #162

Seriously, that's how you see the analogy? Cosmic Kitten Feb 2015 #167

So I take that as a "No...you don't " an Yes that IS how I see the analogy... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #168

It seem you are misconstruing or misunderstand the analogy? Cosmic Kitten Feb 2015 #173

Not misconstruing or misunderstanding anything.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #174

This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Feb 2015 #229

The problem is, we currently don't even know who are candidates are. KMOD Feb 2015 #12

YES!!! daredtowork Feb 2015 #16

absolutely! KMOD Feb 2015 #27

No, there hasn't but there is a definite push to get people to accept ONE candidate with no sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #22

There is clearly a divide here, and it runs deep KMOD Feb 2015 #35

I don't see a thread saying anything like THIS about Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #38

??? KMOD Feb 2015 #39

Because the threads supporting Bernie and Elizabeth Warren aren't so pushy daredtowork Feb 2015 #61

HIDE THREAD is your friend, I'd say. MADem Feb 2015 #107

I feel this is a threat daredtowork Feb 2015 #127

Really? Your definition of "threat" must be unique. Let me address your points, one by one. MADem Feb 2015 #129

Maybe you should practice what you preach. BeanMusical Feb 2015 #135

I am not bothered by differing opinions. The person who created this thread is. MADem Feb 2015 #145

You sure have fooled me. I could have sworn that the vast majority of your posts BeanMusical Feb 2015 #152

Well, golly gee, that's a difficulty in reading comprehension that you'll just have to work to MADem Feb 2015 #186

Nice cliché. You are funny! Hmmm, MAD? BeanMusical Feb 2015 #228

There's no cliché in my comments, sorry to disappoint. MADem Feb 2015 #230

You never fail to. BeanMusical Feb 2015 #231

Fail to what? MADem Feb 2015 #233

aren't so pushy? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #175

Maybe because Sanders and Warren don't induce that poster to heaves? Scootaloo Feb 2015 #97

I think what you are seeing from those who are excited about people like Warren and Sanders sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #42

I admit, I'm unfamiliar with a lot of the history of discourse here, KMOD Feb 2015 #46

Most DUers get along fine, the discourse is respectful and informative. sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #50

Thank you for the layman explanation, KMOD Feb 2015 #64

Yes, most of us are on the page. Some are not and never will be and that's fine too, so long as they sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #77

People who put... sendero Feb 2015 #147

I agree and they are the reason why our Party is losing elections. n/t sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #189

It is not possible for every Democrat to win in a primary. merrily Feb 2015 #86

Some of it is shaming to harass Aerows Feb 2015 #14

As a Left Democrat daredtowork Feb 2015 #20

Yes, forbidden to criticize someone with a D behind their name. Yet NOT forbidden for those who sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #25

See post 14 for a good laugh related to what you said davidpdx Feb 2015 #141

Have you noticed the name of this website? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #17

See my post #10 Fumesucker Feb 2015 #21

Have you? sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #26

Above you said get on the team daredtowork Feb 2015 #30

You first! Old and In the Way Feb 2015 #32

I find that hard to believe Fumesucker Feb 2015 #41

I am disgusted by the whole "destroy the party loyalty oath if I don't get my way" meme. nt William769 Feb 2015 #40

Which party loyalty oath? merrily Feb 2015 #52

My party loyalty oath is I am a Democrat. William769 Feb 2015 #57

No. I am a Democrat too. My Party never required any oath of me. Only some DUers did that. merrily Feb 2015 #60

I'm a member, not a captive, of the Democratic Party. winter is coming Feb 2015 #62

I also said "My party loyalty oath" William769 Feb 2015 #65

I don't worry about the TOS here. That doesn't mean I have to jump to any DUers demands. merrily Feb 2015 #68

I don't make demands, I just state the facts. William769 Feb 2015 #74

I didn't say you made demands. I said some DUers have--and they have and they still do. merrily Feb 2015 #79

If you only vote for THE Democratic nominee daredtowork Feb 2015 #91

The Democratic nominee refers to who is nominated at the convention. William769 Feb 2015 #96

This thread is about taking oaths to Hillary daredtowork Feb 2015 #99

I agree to the facts. William769 Feb 2015 #103

I wrote this post in response to this daredtowork Feb 2015 #111

So what this boils down to is fodder & deception for yet another attack on Hillary. William769 Feb 2015 #114

Good lord daredtowork Feb 2015 #121

"This is not the way to win supporters." BeanMusical Feb 2015 #133

What a strange web we weave daredtowork Feb 2015 #70

Yes I support Hillary. William769 Feb 2015 #76

Hillary is not the nominee yet daredtowork Feb 2015 #80

And where have I said she is? William769 Feb 2015 #81

That's not what I said daredtowork Feb 2015 #88

It's right there for all to see what you said. William769 Feb 2015 #89

I cut and paste what I said daredtowork Feb 2015 #93

If we already had a nominee, I could see where you are coming from, but Jamastiene Feb 2015 #116

I still have yet to see where this has taken place. William769 Feb 2015 #117

The reason it is not about x or y candidate daredtowork Feb 2015 #120

"This is really disappointing to me because of how I have always felt towards you." BeanMusical Feb 2015 #132

Dude, this is Democratic Underground. If you don't like Democratic Party unity, there are other McCamy Taylor Feb 2015 #51

That's exactly the straw man daredtowork Feb 2015 #67

Give us another candidate. One who is running. With polls that show a potential win. McCamy Taylor Feb 2015 #123

Even Hillary doesn't fit your criteria Fumesucker Feb 2015 #134

+1 BeanMusical Feb 2015 #136

Freedom can be a hard concept to deal with for some people dissentient Feb 2015 #58

I personally do not think the party loyalty has anything to do with it. I vote on issues. Like which jwirr Feb 2015 #75

I focus on issues also. Like our forever war policies where so much money is being thrown away to sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #100

Good point. Those matter to me also and I would switch parties if I thought there was one out jwirr Feb 2015 #148

Well, golly...have you read the TOS here, lately? MADem Feb 2015 #78

Your own highlights underscore my point daredtowork Feb 2015 #84

No one is "twisting your words." No one is trying to "exclude non-Hillary supporters," either. MADem Feb 2015 #101

Calling you "disloyal" is not "besting you in an argument" daredtowork Feb 2015 #110

If you call me "disloyal" I can respond "Well, that's your opinion and you're welcome to it." MADem Feb 2015 #113

And there it is a perfect example of what the OP is about. sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #94

HUH? Apparently you didn't read that TOS excerpt very carefully. MADem Feb 2015 #102

Hey MADem William769 Feb 2015 #98

A long time ago, yes. nt MADem Feb 2015 #104

Have we gone down the rabbit hole here! William769 Feb 2015 #105

I think maybe so! nt MADem Feb 2015 #108

yep you nailed it steve2470 Feb 2015 #126

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2015 #115

So you admit Nader was working for the third way in 2000? Without him, Gore would have had McCamy Taylor Feb 2015 #122

This post makes no sense whatsoever. Maedhros Feb 2015 #196

Question for the "anyone but Hillary" set--if Al Gore ran would you support him? McCamy Taylor Feb 2015 #124

This message was self-deleted by its author steve2470 Feb 2015 #125

you might want to read the ToS MADem posted daredtowork Feb 2015 #128

Well said. BeanMusical Feb 2015 #139

You advocate uncritical acceptance of Democratic folly.[n/t] Maedhros Feb 2015 #197

If HRC is the best the Democratic Party has to offer then the 99% already lost anotojefiremnesuka Feb 2015 #131

We live in a revolting, massively funded propaganda state. woo me with science Feb 2015 #137

I don't mind the loyalty police trying to "shut up" me up on DU. Katashi_itto Feb 2015 #142

Funny how people complaining about being "shut up" have thousands of posts OKNancy Feb 2015 #150

+10000000 Perfect :~) Cosmic Kitten Feb 2015 #151

the REALITY in some of our lives, the simple fact of supreme crt justice is RELEVANT. seabeyond Feb 2015 #158

I get that daredtowork Feb 2015 #200

ok. seabeyond Feb 2015 #212

I know I won't get what I want daredtowork Feb 2015 #221

How dare people be partisan on a partisan website!@!11... SidDithers Feb 2015 #159

I love you Sid! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2015 #166

The NOIVE of 'em....the NOIVE, I say....!!!!!!!! MADem Feb 2015 #187

How can you be here when I saw your IP address in an old shoe under my bed? :p nt daredtowork Feb 2015 #222

HUGE K & R !!! - THANK YOU !!! WillyT Feb 2015 #164

K&R.... daleanime Feb 2015 #170

I am outraged at people that are disgusted! Rex Feb 2015 #176

The Democratic Party needs to earn the loyalty of voters. backscatter712 Feb 2015 #178

No independent thought. Obey. Consume and Karmadillo Feb 2015 #179

I stopped reading after "paid strategy....." brooklynite Feb 2015 #191

then maybe you should be on a different forum not dedicated to helping democrats win. La Lioness Priyanka Feb 2015 #193

After we pick a nominee I sure hope as hell the staff here enforce that rule. randys1 Feb 2015 #206

And yet again Hillary = Democrats daredtowork Feb 2015 #207

No. I was addressing the OP's main issue " I am disgusted by the whole "party loyalty" meme" La Lioness Priyanka Feb 2015 #223

Left? You think those who oppose Hillary to the point of NOT voting are left? randys1 Feb 2015 #203

The criticism is daredtowork Feb 2015 #210

What? What the ....jesus... randys1 Feb 2015 #213

That's why this snarking about not voting is getting really annoying daredtowork Feb 2015 #219