General Discussion

MADem

(135,425 posts)

285. You're not seriously INSISTING he had a chance, polling at under a percent?

Sat Dec 6, 2014, 11:19 PM

Dec 2014

It's not being "mean" to point out that this kind of thing is "pie-in-the-sky"--it's FACT. He had as much of a chance of becoming President as I did. I think you don't understand the difference between insult and simple, bald-faced fact. Kucinich was never a player--ever. And he's now working for Murdoch. Both of these things are facts. And it's not being "mean" to say so.

You're the one who said I didn't support your laundry list of progressives, and I "debunked" that.

It's not a question of "pleasantries," it's simply a matter of not making fellow Democrats enemies. If I want someone to engage in a shit-flinging contest with me, I'd join one of those rightwing sites. When I come here, to "Democratic" Underground, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a little comity.

It's pretty sad when the politicians that are championed by the various "factions" get along better than their followers do, here.

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The issues with DU participation IMHO, are a conflict between two thoughts on how to advance Liberal [View all] stevenleser Dec 2014 OP

Let me see if I understand that el_bryanto Dec 2014 #1

No, I meant exactly what I wrote, not your strawman version. nt stevenleser Dec 2014 #2

Do you think that people who support Sanders or Warren should leave DU? nt el_bryanto Dec 2014 #7

I support Sanders and Warren. So, no. nt stevenleser Dec 2014 #8

So who should leave DU? el_bryanto Dec 2014 #11

As framed, your question gives an incorrect perception. Many have already left or stopped stevenleser Dec 2014 #17

I don't agree that it is in decline el_bryanto Dec 2014 #20

No, it is in decline since August, assuming one believes the Alexa stats as posted in another OP stevenleser Dec 2014 #26

This message was self-deleted by its author VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #28

Are you voting for whomever wins the nomination in the Democratic Primary Election? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #30

So if Lieberman is nominated as the Dem. Candidate are you voting for him? bahrbearian Dec 2014 #56

Yes I would. Sorry but having a Republican is worse yeoman6987 Dec 2014 #57

Lieberman is a Republican AgingAmerican Dec 2014 #166

Bwwwwwwwwwaaa ha aha hahahahaha lonestarnot Dec 2014 #226

If he wins....yes. VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #61

Lieberman would not be nominated. He was "tolerated" because he was needed--not celebrated. MADem Dec 2014 #119

You've asked this so many 840high Dec 2014 #103

its hard to drill it into some people's heads..... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #106

Maybe try something other than a drill. pangaia Dec 2014 #229

maybe thats what it takes for some.... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #238

Nobody responds to a drill. pangaia Dec 2014 #240

some need to learn to.... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #244

Um, no, they don't. Have you been put in charge of the Pledge Drive? Or anything? n/t djean111 Dec 2014 #251

I think I just found one.... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #252

OH! You you're the one to teach them, eh! pangaia Dec 2014 #255

whatevs.... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #256

It is the 'peel away the layers of the onion' version AgingAmerican Dec 2014 #165

More or less, poorly disguised as an objective analysis of DU. marmar Dec 2014 #4

No, that strawman is not "more or less" what I wrote. nt stevenleser Dec 2014 #6

YOUR problem is . . . Major Hogwash Dec 2014 #258

Bryant, let me try to tighten up your analysis... brooklynite Dec 2014 #15

Even if the most electable person moves us further to the right? el_bryanto Dec 2014 #18

I don't think EITHER group should be banned... brooklynite Dec 2014 #24

are they voting for whomever wins the Democratic Primary Election? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #32

The point to this is to force us to support the most electable candidate el_bryanto Dec 2014 #43

because you are a gambler naturally! VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #109

I'm not a gambler I want to support someone who isn't in bed with Wall Street. el_bryanto Dec 2014 #137

But it's better to win a "moral victory" ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #72

That would be a valid point if our sensible centrists LondonReign2 Dec 2014 #147

And those that choose to ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #152

This has been pointed out to you a hundred times LondonReign2 Dec 2014 #163

And it has been pointed out to you a hundred times ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #171

How many times are you gong to repeat this lie? LondonReign2 Dec 2014 #172

I have as much data to back up my ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #175

If you have data to contradict mine LondonReign2 Dec 2014 #177

Do you have empirical evidence regarding 2014? ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #182

As it turns out, I DO have some 2014 data LondonReign2 Dec 2014 #187

Yeah ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #190

"Same data problem as before" LondonReign2 Dec 2014 #192

... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #195

... LondonReign2 Dec 2014 #198

See Post 200. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #201

See post 202 LondonReign2 Dec 2014 #206

Argumentum ab auctoritate? ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #214

Yes, you sadly attempted to argue from authority LondonReign2 Dec 2014 #225

No, first ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #231

LMAO. You actually thought Logic was taught in English class LondonReign2 Dec 2014 #296

No ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #297

Maybe you want to go back to posing as a statistics expert? LondonReign2 Dec 2014 #299

Have a happy life. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #300

"86 percent support from liberals" OrwellwasRight Dec 2014 #266

True. maybe. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #291

LOL, I missed this one LondonReign2 Dec 2014 #180

No ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #186

Oh goodness. Intentionally ignoring and misinterpreting data LondonReign2 Dec 2014 #189

Yes, I did; but ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #193

Yes, I get it. LondonReign2 Dec 2014 #196

I don't like to make/accept ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #200

I understand LondonReign2 Dec 2014 #202

No ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #204

You mean all five data sets LondonReign2 Dec 2014 #208

By the way LondonReign2 Dec 2014 #173

The ones that LOST in the Democratic Primaries. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #176

Which, if true LondonReign2 Dec 2014 #178

Could you narrow the field any more? ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #184

So narrowing the field is asking for ANY Democratic candidate LondonReign2 Dec 2014 #188

You forgot to address this ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #191

Al Franken LondonReign2 Dec 2014 #194

My bad. You are correct ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #197

On those states LondonReign2 Dec 2014 #212

Obviously, Pub Lite didn't do well in 2010 or 2012. Yet, we are going to continue the meme merrily Dec 2014 #220

It's a rare "moral victory" that is delivered in the form of an electoral defeat. n/t lumberjack_jeff Dec 2014 #205

Not according to ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #211

Nope. Unless you're just elucidating on the OP strawman version of group 2. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2014 #80

^^^ that onecaliberal Dec 2014 #107

+1000 OrwellwasRight Dec 2014 #267

Hear Hear! dirtydickcheney Dec 2014 #59

Pretty Accurate. Katashi_itto Dec 2014 #130

I jesus. That is NOT what SL said at all. pangaia Dec 2014 #227

Wow.. darkangel218 Dec 2014 #3

No. I did not say "criticising". I said "relentlessly pillorying". Big difference. nt stevenleser Dec 2014 #5

Define that for me please. darkangel218 Dec 2014 #10

Sure, criticism= I don't like the comment you made to this OP. Relentless pillorying=, I go to stevenleser Dec 2014 #19

Okay thanks. But who here does that? darkangel218 Dec 2014 #27

Serious???? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #38

I asked Steven. darkangel218 Dec 2014 #40

and I answered....because I was awed! VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #45

Keep it up, whats new. darkangel218 Dec 2014 #48

and? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #54

Not that you asked me; but ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #74

I guess you haven't been paying attention. LawDeeDah Dec 2014 #94

Pleae allow this edit for more accuracy ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #70

Excellent.....they apparently do not do nuance.... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #33

They? darkangel218 Dec 2014 #39

I was speaking to HIM about you.... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #41

Yet you replied to me to a question posted to Steven. darkangel218 Dec 2014 #47

apparently not... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #52

I think some folks here spend much of their time preaching about how slow all change must be Bluenorthwest Dec 2014 #44

I'm about to run out for a few hours, but there is a big difference IMO between stevenleser Dec 2014 #58

But this here present moment is not a general election, it's a pre primary holiday period. Bluenorthwest Dec 2014 #88

It can only be as swift as the process allows for treestar Dec 2014 #75

First time I saw the police shoot an unarmed person was in the late 80's. How slow does this process Bluenorthwest Dec 2014 #89

You expect an end to all crime? treestar Dec 2014 #145

Again with the ridiculous response. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2014 #158

Well it sounded to me like treestar Dec 2014 #169

What do we want? OrwellwasRight Dec 2014 #268

Seems that you want an echo chamber, not a discussion board. marmar Dec 2014 #9

No, I would not support an echo chamber. nt stevenleser Dec 2014 #12

posted to for later. 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #13

Your descriptions read like push poll questions cyberswede Dec 2014 #14

It's my opinion and perception. I stand by it. nt stevenleser Dec 2014 #21

I just think your argument would seem more vaild if your two descriptions were more objective cyberswede Dec 2014 #37

exactly G_j Dec 2014 #294

DU has been divided into two or more coflicting groups CJCRANE Dec 2014 #16

All true. The difference is that since August participation is crashing. stevenleser Dec 2014 #23

Maybe it is crashing because so much of what is discussed upaloopa Dec 2014 #46

I think those things also contribute and the jury system's inability to deal with attacks in stevenleser Dec 2014 #49

And so your answer to declining numbers Generic Other Dec 2014 #114

No. nt stevenleser Dec 2014 #162

Perhaps, but what about the folks here that openly support Rand Paul FSogol Dec 2014 #22

OR outright say they WILL NOT vote for the winner of the Democratic Primary Election....if THEY VanillaRhapsody Dec 2014 #36

Lol it's almost as if people think Union Scribe Dec 2014 #78

Bingo. Thanks. 840high Dec 2014 #104

+1 OrwellwasRight Dec 2014 #269

+1 n/t lumberjack_jeff Dec 2014 #207

#StandWithRand!!... SidDithers Dec 2014 #50

Alert on them, IF you see one. MIRT or the admins will take them out. Autumn Dec 2014 #73

Hello m'dear! Puglover Dec 2014 #91

I always get so happy when I click on replies to me and see your name. Autumn Dec 2014 #92

Yeah after an unforgivable amount of Puglover Dec 2014 #93

A rand supporter would't last five minutes and would be gone Autumn Dec 2014 #96

I nailed the turkey at my sister in laws. Puglover Dec 2014 #98

I keep seeing the "Rand Paul supporters on DU" meme but never actually neverforget Dec 2014 #101

There are no Paul supporters here on DU. A handful want there to be some Autumn Dec 2014 #113

Someone got alerted on for a sig line mentioning someone whose merrily Dec 2014 #213

Rules to try and live by ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #126

I think the one that farted neverforget Dec 2014 #127

Ah ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #140

MIRT can't take 'em out if they have thousands of posts. MADem Dec 2014 #122

The admins will and have taken out Paul supporters. Autumn Dec 2014 #123

You don't need to be a weatherman to know which way the wind blows with some posters, though. MADem Dec 2014 #125

My advice to you as a former mirt member is to pm skinner with some examples of this behavior. hrmjustin Dec 2014 #185

I think you are correct. What bugs me is NOT the difference of opinion, it's the name calling. MADem Dec 2014 #25

I name the split Pragmatist/Ideologue. Both actually help each other. Neither is an insulting term. KittyWampus Dec 2014 #29

When people fling poo for disagreeing, I don't see any help happening. MADem Dec 2014 #51

"Poor baby didn't get their pony", "Firebagger", "Leftbagger", accusations of being Libertarians, TheKentuckian Dec 2014 #97

"Whiney hypocrites love dishing it out...." MADem Dec 2014 #115

I wasn't the one whining. You folks are massive hypocrites and started the snark early and often. TheKentuckian Dec 2014 #129

I was going to hand you a shovel to make your work easier, so long as you keep digging a hole, MADem Dec 2014 #135

and you for demonstrating mine. Have a goodun! TheKentuckian Dec 2014 #141

Sorry--your point just is not made with that comment. MADem Dec 2014 #159

It isn't surprising you might find a path to seeing it that way. TheKentuckian Dec 2014 #232

Logic does have a way of prevailing. nt MADem Dec 2014 #236

As does clinging to privileged perspective fallacies and intellectual dishonesty. TheKentuckian Dec 2014 #282

You should take your own advice, there. And maybe try for civility when you converse, too. MADem Dec 2014 #286

You mean like when people Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2014 #84

Name calling isn't nice, but you really equate "purist"--which can apply just as well to a MADem Dec 2014 #116

I equate it with the the pearl-clutching over being called a 'centrist' or 'Third Way' or 'New Dem'. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2014 #139

I'm sorry, but your argument just doesn't pass the smell test. Or the reality check. MADem Dec 2014 #161

Right on cue. woo me with science Dec 2014 #90

In essence, then, anyone who does not agree with YOU is "Third Way" and should be "disregarded." MADem Dec 2014 #117

"shutting down anyone who doesn't follow a specific POV." woo me with science Dec 2014 #150

I don't object to your POV--I object to your LANGUAGE, your rudeness, your incivility and MADem Dec 2014 #157

Excellent post. Andy823 Dec 2014 #183

I cannot recall seeing a single poster here called Turd Way. Segments of the party, yes, but merrily Dec 2014 #215

Thanks for your post, well said. Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #108

Well said and i think you struck a nerve. hrmjustin Dec 2014 #199

Yeah, and the other side OrwellwasRight Dec 2014 #271

Oh, so your argument is "Someone was mean to me, so I'm-a gonna get BACK at 'em?" MADem Dec 2014 #276

You're the one who brought up Kucinich OrwellwasRight Dec 2014 #279

You're not seriously INSISTING he had a chance, polling at under a percent? MADem Dec 2014 #285

You are the name caller. OrwellwasRight Dec 2014 #289

I didn't call progressiveS "pie-in-the-sky." But interesting that you would fake a frame to MADem Dec 2014 #290

Purge season already? nt Union Scribe Dec 2014 #31

I take your overall point and agree, but it's far from seasonal. merrily Dec 2014 #218

In fairness, you're misrepresenting the "penguin" argument. Recursion Dec 2014 #34

+1 ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #77

Something like that, but not really. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2014 #86

^This^ LondonReign2 Dec 2014 #148

Exactly. OrwellwasRight Dec 2014 #273

No not quite. upaloopa Dec 2014 #35

No, those are Third Way talking points. woo me with science Dec 2014 #42

^^^THIS^^^ 99Forever Dec 2014 #62

^^^THIS^^^ L0oniX Dec 2014 #85

^^^THIS^^^ PowerToThePeople Dec 2014 #112

Leave the Third way alone! Your making them sad! Jesus Malverde Dec 2014 #128

Seems corporatists don't like that fact being pointed out LondonReign2 Dec 2014 #149

Thank you for posting this. woo me with science Dec 2014 #153

Someone actually alerted on "Third Way talking points?" merrily Dec 2014 #217

+1 Marr Dec 2014 #132

Truth. polichick Dec 2014 #209

We don't need the compromised candidates Man from Pickens Dec 2014 #53

DU rec... SidDithers Dec 2014 #55

Incrementalism doesn't work for me. I've mmonk Dec 2014 #60

It's not even incrementalism. woo me with science Dec 2014 #64

Agreed. I used incrementalism because that mmonk Dec 2014 #65

+1 Gotcha. woo me with science Dec 2014 #66

Yup! OrwellwasRight Dec 2014 #284

This message was self-deleted by its author LittleBlue Dec 2014 #63

You answered your own question LittleBlue Dec 2014 #67

I think your error is you are defining it only in terms of candidates. jeff47 Dec 2014 #68

Elections of candidates are the most clear, direct & immediate way to affect the Democratic process stevenleser Dec 2014 #69

Again, candidates are tools. Policies are what we are trying to implement. jeff47 Dec 2014 #87

I can agree with you for the most part tabbycat31 Dec 2014 #71

that's why we use the term "purist" treestar Dec 2014 #76

Bull. Union Scribe Dec 2014 #79

Is that the only issue? treestar Dec 2014 #144

Of course not. Just one example among many. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2014 #155

You said we don't support the same things treestar Dec 2014 #168

NSA, drone warfare, education deform, Union Scribe Dec 2014 #160

on many things this President is unwilling, unable, or both Man from Pickens Dec 2014 #151

You're actually claiming Obama has an antagonistic style? treestar Dec 2014 #170

Oh yeah Man from Pickens Dec 2014 #210

I think the divide is more between trolls and non-trolls Bjorn Against Dec 2014 #81

It is the responsibility of the people in a democracy to hold public servants accountable. Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2014 #82

Get rid of GD Blue_Adept Dec 2014 #83

GD is my favorite forum Oilwellian Dec 2014 #95

The problem is that Obama sucks. Vattel Dec 2014 #99

Steven, we don't believe just that progress is too slow and incremental but that it is mostly in the TheKentuckian Dec 2014 #100

^^^this^^^!!!1!! truebluegreen Dec 2014 #102

Thank you. Third Way talking points about wanting the same liberal outcome are absurd. woo me with science Dec 2014 #105

Yeah and I think that ridiculous claim is why I believe a lot of these folks are malicious TheKentuckian Dec 2014 #133

My favorite post to date!! Thanks TK! RiverLover Dec 2014 #124

We have to convince enough Republicans to change their minds treestar Dec 2014 #164

No, we have to change the supposed Democrats who can't wait to press the Republican agenda. TheKentuckian Dec 2014 #233

" Undo the progress of the past 25 or 30 years" Caretha Dec 2014 #234

Yeah, you gotta puff, puff, pass. Otherwise, at some point the brain is deprived of oxygen. TheKentuckian Dec 2014 #235

lol Reading these responses, most of which have absolutely nothing to do with what you wrote, Number23 Dec 2014 #110

+1 nt MADem Dec 2014 #118

Notice how folks are saying Steve is calling for a purge (when he isn't) and calling everyone Third Number23 Dec 2014 #120

Point and point. Precisely. MADem Dec 2014 #121

I think I am seeing less than half the responses. I'm not seeing purge posts stevenleser Dec 2014 #138

It's poor design. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2014 #156

I don't use ignore so I see everything. Including the folks jumping like kangaroos around in your Number23 Dec 2014 #221

unrec PowerToThePeople Dec 2014 #111

DU's traffic is down because the fight you describe is too 'inside politics'. Marr Dec 2014 #131

For me, Hillary has disqualified herself by her disruptive behavior. NYC_SKP Dec 2014 #134

So you say Hillary is impeding democracy, let me see if you think these are true. Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #222

K & R pnwmom Dec 2014 #136

The problem isn't that the two groups exist. Captain Stern Dec 2014 #142

This website will still be profitable for Skinner, EarlG, and Elad TransitJohn Dec 2014 #143

It is a shame really that good people leave this site and don't come back. Rex Dec 2014 #146

I don't agree with your framing AT ALL. nt merrily Dec 2014 #154

It certainly not easy being a Hillary Clinton supporter on DU. n/t hrmjustin Dec 2014 #167

I am also getting sick and tired of seeing Hillary supporters being called third way. hrmjustin Dec 2014 #174

And it's not even a particularly Bobbie Jo Dec 2014 #179

Yeah it is ridiculous. hrmjustin Dec 2014 #181

I actually put "third-way" in my DU keyword trash, Jamaal510 Dec 2014 #288

You understand that the Clintons don't think third way is an insult, they invented it. Exultant Democracy Dec 2014 #245

I will Support her but I am not third way and don't appreciate when they call me that. hrmjustin Dec 2014 #246

You are what you vote for. If you support trangulation you are third way Exultant Democracy Dec 2014 #247

I am not DLC and I don't appreciate you calling me that. you know nothing about me. hrmjustin Dec 2014 #248

You support Clinton the First Lady of the DLC, that is all I need to know Exultant Democracy Dec 2014 #249

65 percent of Democrats polled said they would vote for her in a primary in a poll I seen recently. hrmjustin Dec 2014 #250

Duh of course they are, the DLC has a stranglehold on our party. Exultant Democracy Dec 2014 #259

Democrats like me? hrmjustin Dec 2014 #260

Ds like you support HRC, what is hard to understand about that? Exultant Democracy Dec 2014 #261

You do understand we are not all dlc? hrmjustin Dec 2014 #262

It's like you're eating a ham burger and claiming to be vegan. Exultant Democracy Dec 2014 #263

I am a very good Democratic Party member. hrmjustin Dec 2014 #264

What should I call someone who supports third way DLC democrats like HRC? Exultant Democracy Dec 2014 #265

I think it is time for me to take another break from this site again. hrmjustin Dec 2014 #270

I'm sure you'll be back soon, maybe then you can answer my question. Exultant Democracy Dec 2014 #275

I think that's true, albeit an oversimplification. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2014 #203

What do you suggest the "loathe" DU admins do about it? WorseBeforeBetter Dec 2014 #216

DU has always been this way, but I want to address all the third way nonsense BootinUp Dec 2014 #219

Nice job on the biased framing BlindTiresias Dec 2014 #223

We shouldn't criticize the president because...he's part African American? Are you kidding me? Zorra Dec 2014 #224

+1 Nice post. RiverLover Dec 2014 #228

None of your response addresses anything I actually wrote. nt stevenleser Dec 2014 #293

The middle class has not done well under this president and the AA community has done even worse. CentralMass Dec 2014 #230

How has the right wing become so powerful? LWolf Dec 2014 #237

So many incorrect unstated assumptions OrwellwasRight Dec 2014 #239

Way to cut through the sophistry. woo me with science Dec 2014 #272

Thank you. OrwellwasRight Dec 2014 #274

excellent analysis of this seriously IGNORANT post. m-lekktor Dec 2014 #278

Thanks! OrwellwasRight Dec 2014 #281

The radical right has kicked ass since Dean was fired, the worst happened Exultant Democracy Dec 2014 #241

Howard Dean speaks for me XemaSab Dec 2014 #242

True. OrwellwasRight Dec 2014 #277

are you aware that there are progressives on this forum? ellenrr Dec 2014 #243

Ain't it the truth. There may be a half dozen AA's who post here anymore. The hate is palpable. Tarheel_Dem Dec 2014 #253

Your kidding me, I'm one of 6 black people left here, you could have fooled me. Exultant Democracy Dec 2014 #283

There's Probably at Least a Dozen Mutually Incompatible Ideologies Going on Here daredtowork Dec 2014 #254

Practicing my 2015 New Year's mantra: "No Clinton. No Bush. No More." Kip Humphrey Dec 2014 #257

The conflict is based on this problem... Scootaloo Dec 2014 #280

Plus the fact that we could nominate the mummified senile corpse of St. Ronnie XemaSab Dec 2014 #287

And here we have another excellent example of what I talk about in my OP stevenleser Dec 2014 #292

Actually that shows the fallacy of your argument G_j Dec 2014 #295

Correction Bobbie Jo Dec 2014 #298