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LondonReign2

(5,213 posts)

160. You seem to have conflated number of things

Tue Oct 14, 2014, 12:25 PM

Oct 2014

You somehow seem to have gotten the impression that believing in evolution is somehow in conflict with a fundamental morality beyond your "survival of the fittest" mantra. Sorry, for many, their moral point of view is not dependent on faith.

You also said>"I don't think holding beliefs predicated on faith disqualifies anyone from participating in the government of a presumably free society." OoooooooK. Who said anything to the contrary? That's quite a strawman. That oppression you seem to be feeling is entirely self-inflicted.

And>"And I also think governing society based on evolutionary principle could just as easily create Hell on Earth." Who said anything of the sort?? How are you conflating the scientific principle of evolution with a form of government?

And lastly, I ask once again, if we are going to base the form of government on faith, which one do you want to pick?

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Should religious people whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or whatever be welcome in the Democratic [View all] Douglas Carpenter Oct 2014 OP

odd question surrealAmerican Oct 2014 #1

perhaps some place, but not always here on DU Douglas Carpenter Oct 2014 #4

DU is not the Democratic Party Mariana Oct 2014 #37

"DU is not the Democratic Party, nor is it the progressive movement. " YoungDemCA Oct 2014 #133

Ridiculous. Small minority. HERVEPA Oct 2014 #127

As long as they leave their religion out of politics, I don't care what their religion is. hobbit709 Oct 2014 #2

"Whoever receives one child like this in My name receives Me" Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2014 #9

"'And if ye mingle your affairs with theirs, then they are your brothers.'" hobbit709 Oct 2014 #11

If voting one's conscience is forcing beliefs on others then none of us should vote. nt Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2014 #12

Does voting one's conscience include passing no gay marriage amendments and abortion restrictions? hobbit709 Oct 2014 #13

If that's what it takes, so be it LondonReign2 Oct 2014 #120

Perhaps you have reversed the order of the matter. nt Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2014 #122

One needs social welfare to advocate for religion? LondonReign2 Oct 2014 #123

Or perhaps a sense of something higher coupled with moral duty leds to social welfare. nt Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2014 #124

Which goes back to my original statement LondonReign2 Oct 2014 #125

Your statement implies social justice precedes and then faith is tacked on as an after thought to Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2014 #129

My statement didn't imply anything LondonReign2 Oct 2014 #142

Why do you need a sense of something higher to do the right things? HERVEPA Oct 2014 #130

It seems to work better than a sense of Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2014 #131

Thanks. Are you equating atheism with Suvival of the Fittest? HERVEPA Oct 2014 #132

I think evolutionart theory equates with survival of the fittest. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2014 #135

I don't understand. Are you equating somehow belief in evolution to lack of caring about humanity? HERVEPA Oct 2014 #141

If charity were predicated on an evolutionary herd reflex Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2014 #143

So again, to make sure I am not misunderstanding you LondonReign2 Oct 2014 #153

You are, in fact, very much misunderstanding me. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2014 #155

The impression you are getting seems to be of your own manufacture LondonReign2 Oct 2014 #157

Errrr, perhaps I don't understand LondonReign2 Oct 2014 #145

I don't think we're getting an answer on that one. HERVEPA Oct 2014 #149

Should I believe in survival of the fittest as the underlying mechanism of life today? Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2014 #150

Should you believe in science? LondonReign2 Oct 2014 #151

Science is predicated upon the apprehension and comprehension (and virtue) of the observer. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2014 #152

Ah, I see. Society should be governed by faith LondonReign2 Oct 2014 #154

Should society be governed by the principles drawn from our understanding o survival of the fittest? Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2014 #158

You seem to have conflated number of things LondonReign2 Oct 2014 #160

"their moral point of view is not dependent on faith." Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2014 #161

Morals are aboslutely not dependent on faith LondonReign2 Oct 2014 #165

"Secular humanism, facts, and reason." Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2014 #166

And? LondonReign2 Oct 2014 #167

"How does that...argue against the idea that faith isn't necessary for constructing a set of morals? Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2014 #168

Ahhh, yes LondonReign2 Oct 2014 #170

The absence of a sky wizard doesn't prove you have actual morality. Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2014 #171

You don't seem to understand logic LondonReign2 Oct 2014 #173

"believe in social justice" Nuclear Unicorn Oct 2014 #174

The Democratic Party and the progressive movements have always ... etherealtruth Oct 2014 #3

This atheist cares more about the progressive part than the religious part. arcane1 Oct 2014 #5

depends on what their views are, if they are opposed to teaching evolution like most republicans are JI7 Oct 2014 #6

Most Republicans? Bohunk68 Oct 2014 #117

The Overlords don't really care. immoderate Oct 2014 #7

^^ THIS ^^ KentuckyWoman Oct 2014 #22

Yes BlindTiresias Oct 2014 #8

Great reply! nt Union Scribe Oct 2014 #23

I agree with the poster who said "great reply" jen63 Oct 2014 #63

About half of the African American population identify as Baptist Revanchist Oct 2014 #139

But three big monotheisms have been subjugating people since the day they were made up. Arugula Latte Oct 2014 #95

Religion should have no bearing on government. nt valerief Oct 2014 #10

If an athiest government is best, which it is. Athieism is best for all. LawDeeDah Oct 2014 #28

If we ever want to win an election again, sure... BklnDem75 Oct 2014 #14

I hold the freedom of religion and do not care what religion one may choose, I choose what Thinkingabout Oct 2014 #15

Brie on Chicken in a Basket crackers, edgineered Oct 2014 #16

Ugh... are you high, or just stupid? bobclark86 Oct 2014 #17

2‰ admit their atheism... Common sense would suggest the numbers are higher... Oktober Oct 2014 #19

no, I'm not high and I'm not stupid. I am autistic though and I have had a couple of shots of Scotch Douglas Carpenter Oct 2014 #21

Democrats have become accustomed to bad mouthing people they think are beneath them and then liberal_at_heart Oct 2014 #27

that's true. In 2000 about 70% of Muslim Americans voted Republican as well as about 70% of Arab Douglas Carpenter Oct 2014 #36

Hmm.. That's funny, the Democrats treat Muslim and Arab Americans like they do leftists Fumesucker Oct 2014 #60

I hadn't thought of it that way. But I suppose they do Douglas Carpenter Oct 2014 #178

LGBT people vote 7O% and more Democratic, for all known electoral history. Bluenorthwest Oct 2014 #80

That is a stereotype. Liberals disagree with some ideas of some Christians. JDPriestly Oct 2014 #62

I cannot but agree. Shrike47 Oct 2014 #77

"But, the essential messages of progressives and Christians are the same." Thank you! nt Stardust Oct 2014 #109

Welcomed and hopefully cured of their affliction... Oktober Oct 2014 #18

That's not welcoming. Union Scribe Oct 2014 #20

Only in the sense that I would welcome someone suffering from an affliction of OCD or PTSD as well.. Oktober Oct 2014 #33

It's a shame narcissistic personality disorders are untreatable. rug Oct 2014 #49

LOL! whathehell Oct 2014 #51

Indeed.. Fumesucker Oct 2014 #67

Deep enough interest to hear your internal thought request to keep all the lights green.... Oktober Oct 2014 #71

Why yes, that's exactly what religion is about. rug Oct 2014 #84

If it's any consolation, I don't tke a deep personal interest in you. rug Oct 2014 #83

Says the man with the Marx avatar... Oktober Oct 2014 #72

Oh, do you favor capitalism? rug Oct 2014 #85

Many are also left handed and attended school in the North East... Oktober Oct 2014 #86

The point is in the question you didn't answer. rug Oct 2014 #87

Yup.. Just like President Obama and every significant member of the Democratic party... Oktober Oct 2014 #88

And do you favor corporations? rug Oct 2014 #89

Brilliant! cordelia Oct 2014 #91

And we have our thread winner. Brigid Oct 2014 #118

Well, "serve one another in love" certainly sounds terrible gratuitous Oct 2014 #24

If you they are only doing it because of a fear of punishment... Oktober Oct 2014 #31

Well, that's your take gratuitous Oct 2014 #52

Yeah, the fundies on the right jen63 Oct 2014 #66

People do that anyway. Gore1FL Oct 2014 #56

No need to insult the beliefs of whistler162 Oct 2014 #94

It would be utterly fascinating to have you explain that wistful bit of humor... Oktober Oct 2014 #96

This sounds offensive to me Generic Other Oct 2014 #25

personally, I think religous people and all supporters of good will should be welcome - but if I Douglas Carpenter Oct 2014 #26

I think we need to be tolerant of each other Generic Other Oct 2014 #30

Bill Maher and those like him are bigots Scootaloo Oct 2014 #35

It should have nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with the policies one supports (NT) LostOne4Ever Oct 2014 #29

That artichoke spread sounds lovely. Scootaloo Oct 2014 #32

Interesting that some admitted we are not welcome here in their view. hrmjustin Oct 2014 #34

I'm not the least bit surprised. NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #100

I guess some here would have been none too happy about that "papist" JFK (nt) Nye Bevan Oct 2014 #38

Prehaps the question should be sarisataka Oct 2014 #39

Who says they aren't? Tikki Oct 2014 #40

10% of this survey say they are not - there have been many posts on DU which suggest religous people Douglas Carpenter Oct 2014 #44

10% of a poll of Democrats....means nothing. Tikki Oct 2014 #45

In 1980 Liberal = Jew. Read some Reagan. OilemFirchen Oct 2014 #41

Yes. They are very welcome, as far as I am concerned. nt ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #42

They can believe whatever the fuck they want. LostInAnomie Oct 2014 #43

^This^ LondonReign2 Oct 2014 #147

I'll add politics to that, too. LanternWaste Oct 2014 #176

Depends.... Lars39 Oct 2014 #46

Simply put, it's deeds not creeds that ultimately matter. whathehell Oct 2014 #54

I would choose option 4, but... Kalidurga Oct 2014 #47

Can I have the crab meat used to stuff mushroom caps... FrodosPet Oct 2014 #48

I'm an Agnostic, Dyslectic Insomniac--I lay awake at night and wonder if there really is a dog. panader0 Oct 2014 #50

I want that dip!! bravenak Oct 2014 #53

ALL religious people of any sort should be shunned and banned from the Dem party. Crunchy Frog Oct 2014 #55

Only if they share Democratic Party values eridani Oct 2014 #57

Awwwwww Warren DeMontague Oct 2014 #58

I swear, it gets earlier every year. randome Oct 2014 #64

Well like the song says, it's hard out here for a Pope. Warren DeMontague Oct 2014 #69

Religious people ... NanceGreggs Oct 2014 #59

thank you Nance - unfortunately, the point I was trying to make has gone over some peoples' Douglas Carpenter Oct 2014 #111

Absolutely yes. JDPriestly Oct 2014 #61

Well, maybe they should start reflecting the core values of PEOPLE, instead. randome Oct 2014 #65

Values, religion and politics are all as imaginary as the others are... LanternWaste Oct 2014 #177

They already are, and have always been welcomed. baldguy Oct 2014 #68

Many liberals are religious and view their religious beliefs as a part of their liberalism. pampango Oct 2014 #70

Do you want to lose tens of millions of supporters? PlanetaryOrbit Oct 2014 #73

Warm Artichoke and Bacon Dip Algernon Moncrieff Oct 2014 #74

Believers are welcomed and active in the Democratic Party Gothmog Oct 2014 #75

One of the problems with republicans; their inclusion of a single religion in politics liberal N proud Oct 2014 #76

As long as their views are progressive bigwillq Oct 2014 #78

I certainly hope so. NaturalHigh Oct 2014 #79

The label one announces to others is of no concern to me, I care about actions Bluenorthwest Oct 2014 #81

If a person wants to believe in God thats their business madokie Oct 2014 #82

A most excellent philosophy. n/t cherokeeprogressive Oct 2014 #92

Hey Bro' madokie Oct 2014 #98

Do you think challenging religious beliefs edhopper Oct 2014 #90

I think that religious believers of all stripes, and nonbelievers, should be welcome in the LeftishBrit Oct 2014 #93

honestly I blame HG Wells for this: he promised a Godless, Anglophone, technocratic MisterP Oct 2014 #97

It's going to be a really small party once you kick them all out. dilby Oct 2014 #99

Oh, for fuck's sake. Iggo Oct 2014 #101

You need another option... 99Forever Oct 2014 #102

today's fight is the .01% against the rest of us questionseverything Oct 2014 #103

Religious people or fundies? Doctor_J Oct 2014 #104

We Have A Place RadicalGeek Oct 2014 #105

It'll be a darned small party if they aren't. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2014 #106

the majority of them already are... lame54 Oct 2014 #107

We should welcome everyone. Lady Freedom Returns Oct 2014 #108

Good to see there are only 11 intolerant fucks so far. CBGLuthier Oct 2014 #110

now 12, but at least they are a very tiny and very nutty fringe Douglas Carpenter Oct 2014 #116

Martin Luther King was a believer, just as an example KinMd Oct 2014 #112

Everyone who supports the platform TBF Oct 2014 #113

The platform is fairly long and multifaceted YoungDemCA Oct 2014 #136

I don't think you need an TBF Oct 2014 #140

This is just a damn stupid question. WinkyDink Oct 2014 #114

thanks for kicking the poll Douglas Carpenter Oct 2014 #115

Of course - as long as they do not try to impose their beliefs on others whatthehey Oct 2014 #119

Is DU's religious tolerance somehow subject to question? DirkGently Oct 2014 #121

There are those among us who have contempt for ALL religion YoungDemCA Oct 2014 #137

It runs two ways. Some of the defenses of religious faith manage to come off as wildly bigoted Bluenorthwest Oct 2014 #156

Of course, as long as they respect others'... Mike Nelson Oct 2014 #126

It's not a fucking country club. Orsino Oct 2014 #128

I didn't realize that the Democratic Party had purity tests YoungDemCA Oct 2014 #134

i voted for the hard bread, artichoke and crab meat. tiredtoo Oct 2014 #138

Are they voting for Democratic and Progressive candidates? el_bryanto Oct 2014 #144

Who is saying they're not welcome? Arugula Latte Oct 2014 #146

yes, unless they want their religious doctrines incorporated into public policy. nt La Lioness Priyanka Oct 2014 #148

Seems like a backwards question Bradical79 Oct 2014 #159

Of course they should Dorian Gray Oct 2014 #162

I would think that "religious" Democrats are already in the overwhelming majority. Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2014 #163

If, but only if, their political views are liberal. Donald Ian Rankin Oct 2014 #164

Of course they should be welcomed... abakan Oct 2014 #169

Of course not, silly. KamaAina Oct 2014 #172

I think religious tests to be accepted into a political party would be a swell idea... LanternWaste Oct 2014 #175