General Discussion

MattSh

(3,714 posts)

110. I'd be more concerned about Svoboda in Ukraine than Putin in Russia.

Mon Mar 17, 2014, 01:38 PM

Mar 2014

Who Are the World's Worst Anti-Gay Bigots? - PolicyMic - (from May 2013)

4. Ukrainian Political Party Svoboda

Svoboda, which ironically translate as "freedom," is a radical nationalist party and currently one of the five biggest parties in the country. Following elections last year, Svoboda secured seats in parliament for the first time ever, winning 10 times more votes than it had previously ever won. Part of its platform during its election campaign included a pledge to "introduce criminal responsibility for propaganda of drug use and sexual perversions."

According to HRW, the:

"... party repeatedly speaks out against LGBT people’s rights and has announced its support for homophobic bills. On May 14 Iryna Farion, a Svoboda member of parliament, told media, referring to LGBT people: 'They should be cured. I do not make comments about sick people. I don't understand what you are asking me about. They need to be cured.' In July and December 2012, Svoboda party members were involved in attacking a peaceful protest against homophobic laws."

http://www.policymic.com/articles/42733/who-are-the-world-s-worst-anti-gay-bigots

Summary: “Anti-propaganda laws”, the new criminalisation of homosexuality | The European Parliament Intergroup on LGBT Rights

Stanislav Mishchenko, Ukrainian LGBT Council

An already very bad situation was made worse by these laws, according to Stanislav Mishchenko from the Ukrainian Council of LGBT Organisations. He underlined that the phony draft Ukrainian anti-discrimination laws didn’t effectively protect LGBT people from discrimination. The far-right party Svoboda was described as very active in its attempts to limit LGBT people’s rights.

Mr Mishchenko also stressed that the threat of stopping EU visa liberalisation had worked so far, but that it was also important to provide positive incentives occasionally.

http://www.lgbt-ep.eu/intergroup-documents/summary-anti-propaganda-laws/

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My view as a resident of Kiev Ukraine - 3/17 edition [View all] MattSh Mar 2014 OP

As our Man In Havana as it were dipsydoodle Mar 2014 #1

Cool to see a report from the ground over there. I'm sure someone will be right along to correct you quinnox Mar 2014 #2

Yep, the view is always best from 5000 miles away. MattSh Mar 2014 #39

Which is probably where you are... joeybee12 Mar 2014 #47

Oooh, another skeptic. MattSh Mar 2014 #112

Yea, real funny. Not. levp Mar 2014 #93

Believe what you want. MattSh Mar 2014 #116

I found their statement in less than a minute levp Mar 2014 #128

What a sick rationale... JackRiddler May 2014 #193

It is a common practice... levp May 2014 #194

That was about money. JackRiddler May 2014 #195

That's why they went an extra mile... levp May 2014 #196

You've got to be kidding. JackRiddler May 2014 #197

They didn't... levp May 2014 #198

Yeah yeah, I get it. JackRiddler May 2014 #199

You totally called it. JVS Mar 2014 #159

thank you for your view from the front row seat... magical thyme Mar 2014 #3

I think it is a very unreliable post as the OP doesn't disclose his snagglepuss Mar 2014 #17

the OP is not ethnic Ukraine. I see you're badgering him below to reveal his ethnicity magical thyme Mar 2014 #29

Hardly baggering him. Why not disclose potential bias? The OP is snagglepuss Mar 2014 #32

I was born in the USA. MattSh Mar 2014 #42

and he answered your question. magical thyme Mar 2014 #48

My father's background was Ukrainian and Turkish. My mother's background, Welsh and French. snagglepuss Mar 2014 #53

thank you. that reveals your potential bias. magical thyme Mar 2014 #56

If I make a wildly pro-Ukrainian OP then my background ought to be snagglepuss Mar 2014 #67

The entire media is making wildly Pro-nationalist Ukrainian Ops. newthinking Mar 2014 #167

There is no equivalency. The furor of posts supporting Ukraine stem snagglepuss Mar 2014 #182

Actually I was talking in general about everything going on in Ukraine newthinking Mar 2014 #183

The OP is engaging in blatant Putin apology, though. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #41

When will Ukraine allow the people to vote so they have an elected sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #71

Rt.com didn't mention that, did they? geek tragedy Mar 2014 #75

Yes, as a matter of fact, they did. Which is why I asked the question, why there is sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #107

why are they waiting two months to hold an election? geek tragedy Mar 2014 #108

Why are the making decisions that will affect Ukrainians sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #111

they are not handing the country over to the IMF. geek tragedy Mar 2014 #114

Maybe they should go after the wealthy oligarchs as Iceland did, and find some sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #123

Are you suggesting that Ukraine sit in anarchy until elections could be held? Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #115

Your question has zero to do with my comment. My question was sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #122

Actually, since they destroyed the opposition and scared the witts out of anybody who might want to newthinking Mar 2014 #170

I think Russia is going to take over Ukraine before then davidpdx Mar 2014 #177

In May of this year. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #76

May 25th, for president only. MattSh Mar 2014 #120

Iow, the unelected government will remain in power. sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #131

They are the elected government. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #132

Correction, there was a coup and Yanukovitch was driven from power. sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #155

The Parliament of Ukraine was elected in 2012, Progressive dog Mar 2014 #146

How did I miss that newthinking Mar 2014 #169

The Parliament didn't flee the country. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #179

No, they fled the parliment newthinking Mar 2014 #184

In May, but no way it can be fair. They destroyed the opposition parties - newthinking Mar 2014 #168

That stood out to me as well. Babel_17 Mar 2014 #175

That's not Putin apology. JackRiddler May 2014 #200

Commending Putin on "knowing his history" when he makes a land grab? Tommy_Carcetti May 2014 #201

Well, you're a Putin apologist now, but thanks for the reports anyway. bemildred Mar 2014 #4

I guess you meant to say that you're anti-Putin, and not much else matters? nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #5

Yeah, I should have used a sarcasm smiley, you are right. nt bemildred Mar 2014 #8

"Putin apologist" is a term perhaps thrown around too loosely by some here. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #13

Thanks for the example. nt bemildred Mar 2014 #26

No, this person was a Putin apologist back when they geek tragedy Mar 2014 #34

Ah, another example. nt bemildred Mar 2014 #37

yes, you've discovered that people will point out partisan supporters geek tragedy Mar 2014 #40

Why not just call them traitors and be done with it? nt bemildred Mar 2014 #46

Oh please. Noting that a source is obviously biased in favor geek tragedy Mar 2014 #52

All sources are biased. So what? That's why you read everybody. nt bemildred Mar 2014 #55

I don't. I don't read Richard Perle, don't watch rt.com or Hannity, etc. nt geek tragedy Mar 2014 #63

Well I read anybody, I won't say everybody, someone would point out it's impossible. bemildred Mar 2014 #66

Where there's honest disagreement, sure I'll seek out opposing viewpoints. geek tragedy Mar 2014 #68

You can learn a lot from partisan hacks. bemildred Mar 2014 #70

in the instant case, the narrative pushed by both sides has been pretty well known for a while. geek tragedy Mar 2014 #72

I agree. The purple rhetoric is indicative of things too. bemildred Mar 2014 #78

quiet for maybe a week, but wait until the Ukrainian election campaigns geek tragedy Mar 2014 #80

It's never really quiet, I suppose. What would they do if they couldn't squabble? nt bemildred Mar 2014 #82

shoot each other nt geek tragedy Mar 2014 #85

OK, I'm giving you this one. bemildred Mar 2014 #86

And, check out those who buys this crap lock stock and barrel.. But, Franklin Graham thinks Putin.. Cha Mar 2014 #162

See, now there is a REAL Putin apologist, thanks for the example. nt bemildred Mar 2014 #181

Thanks NV Whino Mar 2014 #6

Wow. Just wow. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #7

Wait, so the imperialist fascist starting a pogrom against a minority in his country NuclearDem Mar 2014 #10

Boogles the mind, eh? nt Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #36

No kidding. nt laundry_queen Mar 2014 #101

It's a bit shocking to hear a report from someone actually over there, instead of the propaganda we quinnox Mar 2014 #12

This right here is just shilling for Putin. There's no two ways around it. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #15

Well, looks like we see this totally differently quinnox Mar 2014 #22

I just got done post another five dispatches from VICE as OP snooper2 Mar 2014 #24

I've been watching those as well davidpdx Mar 2014 #176

How do we know this person IS over there? Avalux Mar 2014 #79

Everything posted anonymously on the internet should be taken with a grain of salt. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #89

There are people who believe this stuff. This poster also was part of the geek tragedy Mar 2014 #19

Interesting. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #28

here's his reaction to protests against Russia's state-sanctioned bigotry: geek tragedy Mar 2014 #30

Jeez a whiz. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #31

The difference between he and you appears to be... go west young man Mar 2014 #140

Birds of a feather. NuclearDem Mar 2014 #141

Amazing you can't see yourself. go west young man Mar 2014 #147

Hey, a video without a transphobic word in the title. NuclearDem Mar 2014 #154

Trans...that's a new one for you. go west young man Mar 2014 #157

You calling the LGBT community unwilling tools of the MIC is good enough for me. NuclearDem Mar 2014 #158

Those hides came in one thread after 10 years of activity by me on Democratic Underground. go west young man Mar 2014 #163

Yeah, you're the victim here. NuclearDem Mar 2014 #164

Oh the old reverse persecution complex reversal..... go west young man Mar 2014 #165

Dude, were you not reading the part of the OP's post.... Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #142

b..bb..bbbbuutttt, he disagrees with me. So he must be a sock puppet!!! newthinking Mar 2014 #171

Putin is so fucking Wonderful. Who needs RT when the Putin Propaganda is right here on DU? Cha Mar 2014 #161

Joe McCarthy is a dead piece of shit. DisgustipatedinCA Mar 2014 #180

Thanks for your post malaise Mar 2014 #9

Are you an ethnic Russian or Ukrainian? snagglepuss Mar 2014 #11

Neither... MattSh Mar 2014 #16

Why the secrecy? Why not reveal basic personal information? snagglepuss Mar 2014 #21

See above... MattSh Mar 2014 #62

then why did you refuse to criticize Russia's gay propaganda law? geek tragedy Mar 2014 #23

My, what a completely unbiased post. (nt) jeff47 Mar 2014 #14

Thanks for reminding us that Yanukovych and Putin still have admirers in Ukraine. geek tragedy Mar 2014 #18

The reason Putin has admirers in Ukraine is that Russians during the snagglepuss Mar 2014 #25

That's pretty much it. nt laundry_queen Mar 2014 #97

You appear to be pro-Russia ProSense Mar 2014 #20

Yeah, Berkut. Those are the guys you *really* want running the show for Ukraine's security. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #35

sigh. your bias is so strong and you include such weak examples that cali Mar 2014 #27

Hi Matt, go west young man Mar 2014 #33

This seems to be a fairly complete list... MattSh Mar 2014 #60

Nice. Anti-gay Putin shill pats anti-gay Putin shill on the back. HERVEPA Mar 2014 #117

I was never anti gay. go west young man Mar 2014 #144

I'm putting the OP on full ignore. stg81 Mar 2014 #38

Well, gee, thanks for the announcement quinnox Mar 2014 #43

Cool MattSh Mar 2014 #45

I'm putting you on full ignore. And when they invent a triple ignore, I'll put you on that! JVS Mar 2014 #106

Well, my friends in Dnipro, a very pro-Russian area, want to leave if Russia joeybee12 Mar 2014 #44

Russia is overplaying its hand when it comes to Eastern Ukraine. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #50

Oooh, the skeptic. MattSh Mar 2014 #90

It doesn't explain the blatant Putin apology. nt Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #92

I sympathize with your situation randr Mar 2014 #49

Well thank you for posting this. zeemike Mar 2014 #51

Well, when you actually defend Putin's military actions... Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #54

And likewise I could say zeemike Mar 2014 #59

First, that presumes what happened.... Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #65

Telling the other side is not "excuse Putin's actions " zeemike Mar 2014 #94

Crimea isn't Russia's only warm water port. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #109

That OP is from someone that lives there. zeemike Mar 2014 #127

And I have relatives who live there and who are actually Ukrainian. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #136

I appreciate your report and hope you will continue to keep us posted snappyturtle Mar 2014 #57

Recommend...interesting read.. KoKo Mar 2014 #58

Interesting. Thanks for posting. n/t Comrade Grumpy Mar 2014 #61

Thanks, good report. nt Demo_Chris Mar 2014 #64

Thank you. Interesting. 840high Mar 2014 #69

Thank you for your post as I struggle to understand this situation. mountain grammy Mar 2014 #73

The best way I can explain it would be this. MattSh Mar 2014 #125

Thank you. mountain grammy Mar 2014 #145

DUers: In reading this post, do yourself a favor. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #74

This highlights the difference between anecdote and data gathered through scientific polls and other stevenleser Mar 2014 #96

Well said. nt Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #113

Your right. go west young man Mar 2014 #149

Oh noes! You caused the authoritarians to have a sadz! Rex Mar 2014 #77

LOL! Yeah, supporting Putin is a sign of being anti-authoritarian, right? ProSense Mar 2014 #83

That was priceless. stevenleser Mar 2014 #98

LOL is right. That post was one of the weirdest things I have ever read here at DU... Hekate Mar 2014 #185

You keep using that word. stevenleser Mar 2014 #99

damn you beat me to it. !!!!!!nt msanthrope Mar 2014 #102

That person's response begged for that video. stevenleser Mar 2014 #119

Haha, being against fascist Putin = authoritarian! joshcryer Mar 2014 #133

Putin is an anti-fascist? blackspade Mar 2014 #137

Hmm, I see how that reads. joshcryer Mar 2014 #138

I may have mis-read your original post. blackspade Mar 2014 #139

interesting...and clearly lop sided Sheepshank Mar 2014 #81

this is reminding me of 1956 Hungary grasswire Mar 2014 #100

A couple of questions/comments... blackspade Mar 2014 #84

Some answers... MattSh Mar 2014 #103

Thanks for the replies. blackspade Mar 2014 #134

Whenever an international crisis gets hot nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #87

Thanks for giving us your perspective Crunchy Frog Mar 2014 #88

It's about oil & austerity, IMHO. grahamhgreen Mar 2014 #91

What is your opinion of the plight of LGBT's in Russia? totodeinhere Mar 2014 #95

It's so authoritarian of you to say so... stevenleser Mar 2014 #104

I'd be more concerned about Svoboda in Ukraine than Putin in Russia. MattSh Mar 2014 #110

Being more concerned about a group that MIGHT enact anti-gay laws vs one that ALREADY HAS is an stevenleser Mar 2014 #121

+1000! William769 Mar 2014 #126

Good point. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #129

Yea right... We have heard all about how the far right and neo-nazis in Ukraine are "kinder-gentler" newthinking Mar 2014 #186

See my #188 below. I am not buying it. nt stevenleser Mar 2014 #189

So Svoboda is bad because they MIGHT enact homophobic laws NuclearDem Mar 2014 #130

LOL Cali_Democrat Mar 2014 #166

Yes, they are "kinder-gentler" Neo-Nazi's. What a load of horseshit newthinking Mar 2014 #187

LGBT rights are clearly a game to you. You dont want to hold to account the country that has already stevenleser Mar 2014 #188

I am not the one politicizing rights newthinking Mar 2014 #192

So the potential for codified homophobia in Ukraine NuclearDem Mar 2014 #190

How dare you sit there in Kiev and contradict the American armchair activists LittleBlue Mar 2014 #105

Fucking Putlerite! JVS Mar 2014 #135

Interesting points of view. fleabiscuit Mar 2014 #118

well, i just sold a straight razor to a guy in ukraine. we have been chatting since i emailed him pansypoo53219 Mar 2014 #124

Yes, there are multiple viewpoints. But a single viewpoint is getting most of the coverage in msm newthinking Mar 2014 #174

Thank you for the propaganda LiberalEsto Mar 2014 #143

Tere! NervousRex Mar 2014 #148

Tere tagasi! LiberalEsto Mar 2014 #156

And, look at all those who are lapping Cha Mar 2014 #172

Is Pootie-Poot gonna take east Ukraine? n/t moondust Mar 2014 #150

Thanks for the update, MattSh Demeter Mar 2014 #151

Demographics? wercal Mar 2014 #152

Thanks Matt... WillyT Mar 2014 #153

Would you be ok if Ukraine declared itself neutral like Switzerland? bluestate10 Mar 2014 #160

The truthiness brigade doesn't like this one bit. Union Scribe Mar 2014 #173

And what of actual Ukrainians living in Ukraine, who unlike the OP... Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #178

kick woo me with science Mar 2014 #191