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In reply to the discussion: Hero or devil's spawn, I don't give a shit. It's massive expansion of surveillance [View all]ljm2002
(10,751 posts)111. "I'm not a criminal"...
...until the government decides you are one.
There are plenty of perfectly legal groups that one can associate with and still end up on a watch list. At present, OWS is the canonical example of this. Apart from their occupations, they have held demonstrations and the like that were 100% peaceful and 100% legal and constitutional per the First Amendment:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
And yet if you are known to be associated with them you are considered potentially subversive or worse. So maybe you're not a fan of OWS, still, if you have any interest in actively engaging in our political discourse, you better watch your back. Some things are acceptable to say and some things aren't -- and it is not all about whether you threaten violence. Anything, anything that threatens the status quo is taken as a threat.
Finally, privacy vis a vis companies is different than privacy vis a vis the government. For one thing, any one business has access to their own data, not all data. Whereas the government is gaining more and more access to consolidated data. For another thing, a company can't send someone to your house to have you arrested. The government can.
I don't think you have thought this through.
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Hero or devil's spawn, I don't give a shit. It's massive expansion of surveillance [View all]
cali
Jun 2013
OP
If the Establishment has its way. They'll have to start doing better with their spin...
reformist2
Jun 2013
#6
Yes, it's all about the individual personalities, and has nothing to do with the institutions...
YoungDemCA
Jun 2013
#67
We are not talking about pen registers when e-mails and other internet data is held.
SlimJimmy
Jun 2013
#101
If it was all legal, no one would have lied to Congress under oath and denied such spying.
AnotherMcIntosh
Jun 2013
#60
It is a felony to mislead Congress. Answering in the "least untruthful manner" is still untruthful.
AnotherMcIntosh
Jun 2013
#80
Misunderstood? I don't see that in this exchange. He outright lied about what he knew.
SlimJimmy
Jun 2013
#102
On what basis are you declaring the data as "legal"? You dont even know what they are doing
rhett o rick
Jun 2013
#92
Pull the ones up where I called him a 'traitor' before the revelations of today.
geek tragedy
Jun 2013
#22
No, I'm stating as a fact you've been busted making shit up, and now you're refusing
geek tragedy
Jun 2013
#26
None of those links indicate that you are not defending the NSA program.
Fantastic Anarchist
Jun 2013
#45
So then Snowden did nothing wrong if he did indeed spy on the USA for China.
redgreenandblue
Jun 2013
#93
I think it is only about Snowden in the sense that unless people like him come forward we have no
avaistheone1
Jun 2013
#13
When they can't argue facts, and people aren't buying the legalization of crime,
Egalitarian Thug
Jun 2013
#15
exactly, who exposed it , what their motivation was has no bearing on the facts
bowens43
Jun 2013
#34
When thinking about our rights I now start to think about the ones we've lost.
WHEN CRABS ROAR
Jun 2013
#51
I'm not going to get caught up in the personalities of this when it's not what's important.
blkmusclmachine
Jun 2013
#52
I agree, although some are very dedicated to trying to make it about persons and gossip
Bluenorthwest
Jun 2013
#56
Exactly. 1) mass surveillance is bad. 2) Even if it were ok we have a right to know about it.
limpyhobbler
Jun 2013
#57
K&R. The McCarthyist howler monkeys want us screaming about Snowden, not about Google for Tyrants.nt
backscatter712
Jun 2013
#77