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geek tragedy

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69. The problem is we don't know what was revealed.

Reply to paleotn (Reply #68)

Wed Jun 12, 2013, 06:41 PM

Jun 2013

We've seen a few presentations, but we shouldn't accept everything this guy says as true.

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Hero or devil's spawn, I don't give a shit. It's massive expansion of surveillance [View all] cali Jun 2013 OP

And I don't give a shit how legal and constitutional it is. MindPilot Jun 2013 #1

Quite well said. DissidentVoice Jun 2013 #64

Thank you! MindPilot Jun 2013 #70

But I guess committing the crime of treason doesn't matter to you VanillaRhapsody Jun 2013 #76

Tssk.. ForeignandDomestic Jun 2013 #85

Did you consider Daniel Ellsberg to be a traitor? lark Jun 2013 #108

I am rtracey Jun 2013 #110

"I'm not a criminal"... ljm2002 Jun 2013 #111

I am not OK with this lark Jun 2013 #122

Don't have anything to hide, eh? - nt HardTimes99 Jun 2013 #123

Do you consider THIS guy to be a Daniel Ellsberg? VanillaRhapsody Jun 2013 #120

Aren't you jumping to conclusions without all the real facts? avebury Jun 2013 #119

I can guarantee you he signed non-disclosure... VanillaRhapsody Jun 2013 #121

Oh, it's going to be mostly about Snowden over the next few MineralMan Jun 2013 #2

It hasn't been mostly about him for the past few days and I don't think cali Jun 2013 #4

No, of course you're not the only person. MineralMan Jun 2013 #8

This message was self-deleted by its author Junkdrawer Jun 2013 #9

If the Establishment has its way. They'll have to start doing better with their spin... reformist2 Jun 2013 #6

Has anyone explained how he got the FISC docs? Junkdrawer Jun 2013 #7

Nope. Clearly, they were briefing documents. MineralMan Jun 2013 #12

Some other important questions: Maedhros Jun 2013 #59

Simple answers.... paleotn Jun 2013 #66

Yes, it's all about the individual personalities, and has nothing to do with the institutions... YoungDemCA Jun 2013 #67

It took Snowden to get Obama to talk about debating the issue. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #3

It hasn't been debated because it's all legal Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #31

"all legal"? Famous last words. JDPriestly Jun 2013 #48

The law is an ass? Enthusiast Jun 2013 #86

You might want to give the link below a listen. snappyturtle Jun 2013 #50

Merkley seems to skip over this case law Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #58

Then we need a full and transparent investigation Maedhros Jun 2013 #62

+1 Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #65

I do not give the phone company the right to hand over my number to NSA. snappyturtle Jun 2013 #71

Part of it is so they will have the numbers later on Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #72

So what does the NSA do after 5 years? Start all over again? snappyturtle Jun 2013 #74

No reason for Snowden to expose all this like he did Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #75

I'm going to be very honest. I have a greater fear of the misuse of snappyturtle Jun 2013 #81

Now that the White House has confirmed the program Maedhros Jun 2013 #84

One point that people seem to be missing... ljm2002 Jun 2013 #113

Dots in a box Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #114

"just numbers with no names attached to them"... ljm2002 Jun 2013 #116

We all know this Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #117

DiFi is one of the least trustworthy people on this issue, IMO... ljm2002 Jun 2013 #118

We are not talking about pen registers when e-mails and other internet data is held. SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #101

If it was all legal, no one would have lied to Congress under oath and denied such spying. AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #60

I don't see Clapper as commiting perjury Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #63

It is a felony to mislead Congress. Answering in the "least untruthful manner" is still untruthful. AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #80

Good luck collecting a guilty verdict on this Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #82

I don't have to collect a guilty verdict on this. AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #83

Misunderstood? I don't see that in this exchange. He outright lied about what he knew. SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #102

I don't believe Clapper "knowingly" made a false statement Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #104

He told a lie, an obvious one. That he might wiggle out of a perjury charge SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #105

On what basis are you declaring the data as "legal"? You dont even know what they are doing rhett o rick Jun 2013 #92

Just because I point out something is legal, Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #96

+1000. premium Jun 2013 #5

derp geek tragedy Jun 2013 #10

Which judging by your posts Aerows Jun 2013 #16

Which posts are those? nt geek tragedy Jun 2013 #18

Every one you've made on the subject Aerows Jun 2013 #21

Pull the ones up where I called him a 'traitor' before the revelations of today. geek tragedy Jun 2013 #22

Now we are qualifying our posts beforehand? Aerows Jun 2013 #24

No, I'm stating as a fact you've been busted making shit up, and now you're refusing geek tragedy Jun 2013 #26

Uh, no, Aerows Jun 2013 #28

you said you would "gladly provide links" geek tragedy Jun 2013 #29

Here you go Aerows Jun 2013 #32

the derp is strong with you geek tragedy Jun 2013 #35

Oh well Aerows Jun 2013 #38

peace, nt geek tragedy Jun 2013 #42

If you need more, I'll provide them Aerows Jun 2013 #33

that was a pretty pitiful selection from you. geek tragedy Jun 2013 #37

Oh, I forgot Aerows Jun 2013 #39

Just how was I smearing the guy for suggesting he fly to Venezuela? geek tragedy Jun 2013 #41

your translation would be off and really my assessment was a cautious one cali Jun 2013 #17

Blind support for the surveillance state=you lying about my position. nt geek tragedy Jun 2013 #19

hardly. touchy aren't you? cali Jun 2013 #23

I'm touchy when people lie about me. geek tragedy Jun 2013 #25

None of those links indicate that you are not defending the NSA program. Fantastic Anarchist Jun 2013 #45

the accusation was: geek tragedy Jun 2013 #47

So what if he is a narcissist. He isn't a traitor if he tells the truth JDPriestly Jun 2013 #49

I would have agreed before today. geek tragedy Jun 2013 #53

++++++++haha! ++++++++ Whisp Jun 2013 #54

Argue for or against... paleotn Jun 2013 #68

The problem is we don't know what was revealed. geek tragedy Jun 2013 #69

Nobody in the government is denying it. Maedhros Jun 2013 #109

Lets see: Spying on China is ok, but revealing said spying is treason. redgreenandblue Jun 2013 #89

Yes, spying on other countries is perfectly okay. nt geek tragedy Jun 2013 #90

So then Snowden did nothing wrong if he did indeed spy on the USA for China. redgreenandblue Jun 2013 #93

Spying on behalf of one's own country against a foreign power is okay. geek tragedy Jun 2013 #94

Under customary international law all spies are treated equal. redgreenandblue Jun 2013 #95

rec rec rec Autumn Jun 2013 #11

I think it is only about Snowden in the sense that unless people like him come forward we have no avaistheone1 Jun 2013 #13

It isn't right Aerows Jun 2013 #14

When they can't argue facts, and people aren't buying the legalization of crime, Egalitarian Thug Jun 2013 #15

I'm willing to stipulate he's the Worst Person In the World. BlueCheese Jun 2013 #20

BINGO! n/t dgibby Jun 2013 #55

Yep. Little Star Jun 2013 #27

Rec. woo me with science Jun 2013 #30

exactly, who exposed it , what their motivation was has no bearing on the facts bowens43 Jun 2013 #34

interesting. Whisp Jun 2013 #36

You mean the expansion that took place in 2007? pnwmom Jun 2013 #40

Hero or Traitor? Fantastic Anarchist Jun 2013 #43

I agree BainsBane Jun 2013 #44

Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Jun 2013 #46

When thinking about our rights I now start to think about the ones we've lost. WHEN CRABS ROAR Jun 2013 #51

I'm not going to get caught up in the personalities of this when it's not what's important. blkmusclmachine Jun 2013 #52

I agree, although some are very dedicated to trying to make it about persons and gossip Bluenorthwest Jun 2013 #56

Exactly. 1) mass surveillance is bad. 2) Even if it were ok we have a right to know about it. limpyhobbler Jun 2013 #57

excellent post warrprayer Jun 2013 #61

DURec leftstreet Jun 2013 #73

K&R. The McCarthyist howler monkeys want us screaming about Snowden, not about Google for Tyrants.nt backscatter712 Jun 2013 #77

There are two major questions/issues.. DCBob Jun 2013 #78

30,000 applications for warrants submitted to the FISA zeeland Jun 2013 #79

33,900 in 33 years. About 1800 last year. JoePhilly Jun 2013 #91

Can you tell me how many of those 33,900 applications zeeland Jun 2013 #98

No. I so disagree. cali Jun 2013 #87

Ok I will revise the questions.. DCBob Jun 2013 #100

Long as warrants were involved then yes its legal. cstanleytech Jun 2013 #99

Exactly. He & Greenwald are not the issue. At all. Triana Jun 2013 #88

Damn Skippy. nt MrScorpio Jun 2013 #97

+1 exactly. SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #103

Thank you again lark Jun 2013 #106

Amen. 840high Jun 2013 #107

Agree 100%. n/t ljm2002 Jun 2013 #112

Thank you. Apophis Jun 2013 #115