General Discussion

snot

(11,623 posts)

202. A concern is,

Tue Feb 17, 2026, 10:04 PM

Yesterday

this seems to focus on allowing discussion of "strategy" and "tactics" (though it also mentions "the future of the party," which I find pretty vague, given the context). Are we supposed to not discuss substantive matters, and just stick to cheerleading and recruiting?

What about Dem policy, not in the "future," but now? Can we urge a return to the policies that we Dems used to stand for, including higher taxes on the rich, tighter regulation on Wall St., enforcement of anti-trust law, tighter restrictions on the consolidation of media ownership, stronger labor protections, humane levels of support for those who can't support themselves, etc.? (Then there are also such civil rights as free speech and privacy, which Dems have lately seemed to care about only when it's the other side that's infringing them.)

Imho, our gradual but steady betrayal of these policies helped pave the way for Trump to win by co-opting Bernie's language and promising to improve the lot of workers (not that Trump's actually delivered).

I worry about getting kicked off DU for saying this.

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Jack Valentino snot PeaceWave vanessa_ca obnoxiousdrunk

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It is not an act of loyalty to quash conversations about our own party's role in getting to where we are today. [View all] Scrivener7 Yesterday OP

Maybe that's why EarlG gave us The Way Forward forum. quaint Yesterday #1

The posting rules are the same everywhere on DU EarlG Yesterday #84

A concern is, snot Yesterday #202

To answer your questions EarlG 22 hrs ago #209

Thank you; that all sounds good. snot 3 hrs ago #238

Get a candidate who supports those things to run in a primary creeksneakers2 21 hrs ago #211

I did: snot 3 hrs ago #237

It's a bit tricky... ._. Yesterday #2

Yup, what Jason Crow said last week on TV gab13by13 Yesterday #7

Sorry, it's not the Democratic Party. It's Republican voters, third party voters, and petulant nonvoters lapucelle Yesterday #3

Kamala Harris won the election. gab13by13 Yesterday #6

Yup, pedo Trump cheated on the vote count Farmer-Rick Yesterday #30

That's a perfect way to keep losing iemanja 21 hrs ago #213

Well said. We lost fair and square. Claiming otherwise just makes us sound like Republican election deniers. PeaceWave 4 hrs ago #233

Yup! yellow dahlia Yesterday #77

I'm noticing JustAnotherGen Yesterday #9

I can count the leftists I've actually corresponded with online TBF Yesterday #93

I can't do that JustAnotherGen Yesterday #119

Can you "be in community" with Donald Trump? TBF Yesterday #140

I disagree JustAnotherGen Yesterday #145

What is "Magapub/CSA" - TBF Yesterday #159

Magapub JustAnotherGen Yesterday #163

I am old school labor - originally from Wisconsin TBF Yesterday #179

And maga-pub IS NOT a political party---- it is a criminal domestic terrorist organization Jack Valentino 23 hrs ago #207

Thank you sir! JustAnotherGen 13 hrs ago #222

What does any of this mean...Demanding concessions?...Taking up arms against each other? PeaceWave Yesterday #166

Full Disclosure - I'm in NJ JustAnotherGen Yesterday #149

This insists that any change must come from our opposition. Scrivener7 Yesterday #36

I work hard, every single year, to elect Democrats in races big and small. lapucelle Yesterday #45

I think we here all work hard to elect Democrats. And we have been doing so for years. And yet, here we are. Scrivener7 Yesterday #48

Work harder to shut down opposition narratives, most especially those from purists and punishers lapucelle Yesterday #52

Which, by definition, has nothing to do with shutting down discussions on DU. Scrivener7 Yesterday #53

To begin with, expressing an opinion on a topic is not "shutting down discussion" on a topic. lapucelle Yesterday #66

Really? Cirsium Yesterday #92

That's an odd definition of "purist". lapucelle Yesterday #99

Exactly Cirsium Yesterday #117

Even given the definitional problems (and notwithstanding the random use of latin), lapucelle Yesterday #127

hi back Cirsium Yesterday #128

Recognizing a Latin word and saying your conclusion doesn't follow from your premises is not an argument either Ilikepurple Yesterday #198

Creating your own three term argument by merging two distinct and seperate terms into one lapucelle 13 hrs ago #221

You said even given the definitional problems, there conclusion does not follow Ilikepurple 4 hrs ago #236

You merged two terms into one in an attempt to create a syllogism where none exists. lapucelle 3 hrs ago #239

I didn't take that as an attack JustAnotherGen Yesterday #180

agreed Cirsium Yesterday #183

We shouldn't "shut down" speech Just_Vote_Dem Yesterday #97

Couldn't agree more with you more Scrivener. choie Yesterday #49

It's defining the mistakes JustAnotherGen Yesterday #181

Personally... Chemical Bill Yesterday #190

Yes! mcar 4 hrs ago #234

I agree with you 100% Scrivener7. It is not a fluke that we are in this mess. flashman13 Yesterday #71

I'm really looking forward to the primaries too. We have an incredible bench, and Scrivener7 Yesterday #73

You are? Divergent views within our own party might lead to hurt feelings afterwards. PeaceWave 23 hrs ago #208

+1 leftstreet Yesterday #103

Joe Biden WAS a great President. Chemical Bill Yesterday #193

Well said. Thank you again! KPN Yesterday #132

Isn't amazing that SocialDemocrat61 Yesterday #40

Thanks for illustrating the problem. FoxNewsSucks Yesterday #65

The problem is Trump and republicans SocialDemocrat61 Yesterday #75

I have never seen anyone here say that Democrats are the enemy FoxNewsSucks Yesterday #78

Good SocialDemocrat61 Yesterday #88

And what Scrivener is asking is HOW did we get here? CrispyQ Yesterday #100

We got here because of Republicans SocialDemocrat61 Yesterday #110

So was it an attack or not? Ilikepurple Yesterday #192

Have a nice day SocialDemocrat61 Yesterday #194

What are you doing? Cirsium Yesterday #94

Have a nice day! SocialDemocrat61 Yesterday #98

With deliberate misrepresentation MorbidButterflyTat Yesterday #109

Have a nice day! SocialDemocrat61 Yesterday #111

Unrec. This is why we can't have nice things. TBF Yesterday #112

It's the Democratic Party which nominates candidates which voters either accept or reject Jose Garcia Yesterday #154

With the (somewhat) arguable exception of 2024, voters choose the candidates. lapucelle Yesterday #165

Mahalo, lapucelle! Some seem to forget Cha Yesterday #170

Thank you for this thread, gab13by13 Yesterday #4

I'm firmly in the FIGHT NOW group. n/t PatrickforB Yesterday #34

Same here. And I'm highly suspect of the motives of anyone demanding we do otherwise. FoxNewsSucks Yesterday #67

Careful! Floyd R. Turbo Yesterday #5

Yep. And that's the problem. This has nothing to do with criticizing Democrats. It has to do with looking at Scrivener7 Yesterday #8

Jason Crow backs up your thread, gab13by13 Yesterday #19

I'm with you right up until the part about nominating a republican. But I get your point. Scrivener7 Yesterday #22

Miles Taylor has no political experience and we know karynnj Yesterday #38

Not fair comparing Miles Taylor with Liz Cheney, gab13by13 Yesterday #57

I will listen to him but just based on what you said MadameButterfly Yesterday #63

I remember all the support here for Michael Avenatti for a presidential run. MichMan Yesterday #64

That doesn't mean we shouldn't want fighters, FoxNewsSucks Yesterday #68

I remember it and thinking it beyond stupid karynnj Yesterday #74

While I'm grateful to Conservatives who have drawn a line and chosen to MadameButterfly Yesterday #62

nominating a REPUKE? Skittles 21 hrs ago #217

If we don't look at the issues of the Dem structure, and question it, then we are in a cult... yellow dahlia Yesterday #81

If you look at my sig line JustAnotherGen Yesterday #10

They want all poor people dead, depopulation is a part of Project 2025. gab13by13 Yesterday #20

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever Ping Tung Yesterday #11

"I am a Christian and a Democrat. That's all": FDR, when asked to define his political philosophy. lapucelle Yesterday #21

That was his choice. That's what democracy is supposed to be about...choice. Ping Tung Yesterday #26

Yes, folks choose to vote for Republicans or third-party candidates or to withhold any vote as punishment lapucelle Yesterday #120

And add mainstream media to that list Just_Vote_Dem Yesterday #125

Just as there's nothing wrong calling out the politicians who support or vote for Ping Tung Yesterday #143

Sir, this is a Wendy's Johnny2X2X Yesterday #12

I'm not talking about ripping on Dems and I'm not talking about anything that violates the TOS. Scrivener7 Yesterday #13

I'd be willing to bet that the same posters jumping all over you also FoxNewsSucks Yesterday #69

I actually express hatred JustAnotherGen Yesterday #184

Fire the strategists and consultant class, The party needs to stop making the same mistakes. yellow dahlia Yesterday #86

YES! The 'strategists' and 'Consultants" don't seem to have Bettie Yesterday #137

That really is at the base of all of it. Scrivener7 Yesterday #144

The other thing that would make a HUGE difference Bettie Yesterday #146

Indeed. yellow dahlia Yesterday #186

Any time we stop speaking truth, we benefit those who want to hide the truth. hamsterjill Yesterday #14

Yours is a great post also, gab13by13 Yesterday #23

Thank you. hamsterjill Yesterday #24

Agreed! yellow dahlia Yesterday #87

It's just demographics Sympthsical Yesterday #15

But at this point, none of us is. I'm that comfortable boomer you describe. Scrivener7 Yesterday #16

Absolutely Sympthsical Yesterday #27

Cheerleaders, the party is always right, swarm, posse, toe the line, echo chamber, blind loyalty, marching in lockstep, betsuni Yesterday #17

And supposedly, MorbidButterflyTat Yesterday #116

. SunImp Yesterday #131

Finding out facts instead of leaping to negative conclusions about Democrats is mocked as mindless loyalty. Projection. betsuni Yesterday #164

We failed to read history, but it's only now that history is understood at all bucolic_frolic Yesterday #18

Somewhat related to your OP, discussions quickly sink... harumph Yesterday #25

So much yes to this! All those bad movies about evil conglomerates trying to rule the world? Scrivener7 Yesterday #29

My daughter quipped the other day - "Who knew the original Superman movie was a road map..." harumph Yesterday #42

We are at a confluence of all the evil empire "Bond villain" types. yellow dahlia Yesterday #90

Time for a paradigm shift. yellow dahlia Yesterday #89

It's a return to 1877 to 1965 JustAnotherGen 8 hrs ago #231

As I have said before: popsdenver Yesterday #39

Amen, sis! demmiblue Yesterday #28

I cleared my ignore list a while ago Bettie Yesterday #142

Trump 2.0 could have been prevented by closing the border and having a normal primary dalton99a Yesterday #31

Thank you! intheflow Yesterday #32

I agree popsdenver Yesterday #43

... SSJVegeta Yesterday #33

In his diplomatic, inoffensive way, I think President Obama pointed the way Martin Eden Yesterday #35

I make no bones about it JustAnotherGen Yesterday #188

DURec leftstreet Yesterday #37

For example, gab13by13 Yesterday #41

I think that's a perfect example because it's my opinion that, if Democratic leaders had not gotten so much Scrivener7 Yesterday #44

Yep, things changed Just_Vote_Dem Yesterday #46

And it seems like it took a little outrage to convince them of the fact. Scrivener7 Yesterday #50

That's the problem in a nutshell. AloeVera Yesterday #102

People are pissed at the wait-and-see say-nothing do-nothing approach. dalton99a Yesterday #47

We're in a partial shutdown at the moment. lapucelle Yesterday #113

Eight Democrats voted to end the fillibuster in October, ten in March. Scrivener7 Yesterday #126

Your vote counts in both instances are off by one. lapucelle Yesterday #133

So a groundswell of constituent opinion has no effect on your elected officials? Scrivener7 Yesterday #134

Social media posts and constituent opinion are two very different things. N/T lapucelle Yesterday #167

i completely agree with you. We should be able to speak freely if it is for constructive reason samsingh Yesterday #51

That's a good example of a topic we should discuss in detail. Scrivener7 Yesterday #114

exactly - and given the power trump is wielding samsingh Yesterday #121

So the lesson, which I hope we have learned, is that we release it all as soon as we are able. Scrivener7 Yesterday #122

there can be no healing until the crimes are punished samsingh Yesterday #123

Concise and to the point. Well said. Escurumbele Yesterday #54

100% Agree, Scrivener 7. If we can't see our own part in something we can't improve... johnnyplankton Yesterday #55

Everything changes except one thing that was never addressed, and still isn't. usonian Yesterday #56

It is important to note that WE elected our officials to represent us Grim Chieftain Yesterday #58

That's why we have primaries SocialDemocrat61 Yesterday #60

And if they don't uphold the promises they made in the primaries? Grim Chieftain Yesterday #70

Really depends on the promises they made SocialDemocrat61 Yesterday #76

And it doesn't need to be a fight. I made mistakes in my job. Scrivener7 Yesterday #79

Agreed. yellow dahlia Yesterday #95

Wanting to learn from the past & do better in the future... CaptainTruth Yesterday #59

Good Luck with that here. n/t ihaveaquestion Yesterday #61

When do we rank-n-file types get to see the Election 2024 Postmortem? Kid Berwyn Yesterday #72

Spot on! yellow dahlia Yesterday #96

Yup Joinfortmill Yesterday #80

This is what those finger-waggers really are FoxNewsSucks Yesterday #82

I do think the DNC is starting to realize that much of the grass roots is really pissed at the party leadership Bluetus Yesterday #83

I think recent events have provided us with a pretty extensive list of things we Scrivener7 Yesterday #85

I have a list. You have a list. The Party does not have a list. Bluetus Yesterday #105

Without a doubt. And Dems -- all Dems -- should be repeating that list. Bluetus 9 hrs ago #229

Please link to these threads: MorbidButterflyTat Yesterday #91

There was one in particular this morning that was a good example. I can't link to it. For reasons I will not state. Scrivener7 Yesterday #107

Milquetoast, strongly worded letters, old guard, status quo, gerontocracy, Vichy Dems, Surrender Dems, betsuni Yesterday #124

Good post Scrivener7, and a worthwhile question to ask. I feel the biggest mistake we may have made is to underestimate c-rational Yesterday #101

Definitely. I agree with all of that. Scrivener7 Yesterday #115

Right? They see us as the enemy Bettie Yesterday #147

Well said, Scrivener. yellow dahlia Yesterday #104

What a great topic. Absent discussions like these, we Dems are merely REACTING to what the other side does. PeaceWave Yesterday #106

I see the same cheerleaders on this thread. hamsterjill Yesterday #108

I hear you. harumph Yesterday #150

You are absolutely correct! hamsterjill Yesterday #199

Our role in getting here today Quiet Em Yesterday #118

Sadly, I think this is true. We have lost so much civil rights ground Scrivener7 Yesterday #139

I am 59 Bettie Yesterday #151

The adults gulliver Yesterday #129

The Democrats I know aren't lazy, neglectful OR self-indulgent. Scrivener7 Yesterday #135

"Romans and countrymen, lend me your ears?" gulliver Yesterday #136

Thank you so much Scrivener. KPN Yesterday #130

Great OP SunImp Yesterday #138

Thank you for the thread canetoad Yesterday #141

Loyalty means being willing to examine our own missteps Torchlight Yesterday #148

It's not possible currently to discuss mistakes and we are doomed to repeat them again. Melon Yesterday #152

How is it happening in Texas? SocialDemocrat61 Yesterday #156

Beto Melon Yesterday #162

What's he running for? SocialDemocrat61 Yesterday #169

See Below Quote Melon Yesterday #172

So what did Beto SocialDemocrat61 Yesterday #173

This thread is all about why we don't do that.... Melon Yesterday #175

So who should run in Texas? SocialDemocrat61 Yesterday #176

This and your gatekeeping is the issue that prevents open discussion and improvement. Melon Yesterday #177

I'm just trying to understand SocialDemocrat61 Yesterday #178

Why? Are you in Texas? Or are you trying to gatekeep? Melon Yesterday #191

No, but am trying to understand what is going on In Texas. SocialDemocrat61 Yesterday #196

And I say again...go read the threads on Talarico or Crockett Melon 22 hrs ago #210

I was asking for your perspective SocialDemocrat61 21 hrs ago #215

I have a relative running for the Senate, so luckily Scrivener7 Yesterday #157

It has nothing to do with being loyal. It's about fighting back against (often) unfair and unwarranted criticism. W_HAMILTON Yesterday #153

Well, "bullshit criticism" is in the eye of the beholder. Orrex Yesterday #195

I may be late to this discussion, but I read it early this morning and just now thought I would add my 2cents. Ninga Yesterday #155

We had the clear advantage in social media Scrivener7 13 hrs ago #223

We do not need to do this before midterms and publicly oldmanlynn Yesterday #158

Suicidal has been the lack of transparency and free discussion Melon Yesterday #161

The right time is always behind closed doors oldmanlynn 20 hrs ago #218

Absolutely agree! And I've noticed another of the cheerleaders' tactics: Orrex Yesterday #160

That's not an accurate metaphor for your point EdmondDantes_ Yesterday #187

Thanks, but I know what I've seen, and I'm ready to be judged Orrex Yesterday #189

No I expressly don't. But you leap to that conclusion EdmondDantes_ 23 hrs ago #203

Let's just say that the discussion's been going on since before July 21, 2024 Orrex 23 hrs ago #204

And they feel just as strongly as you do about their name calling being calling it as they see it EdmondDantes_ 23 hrs ago #205

I've accused you of exactly nothing except joining the conversation late Orrex 23 hrs ago #206

To quote you EdmondDantes_ 14 hrs ago #220

LOL. No, read it again Orrex 12 hrs ago #226

Sure thing. It's not like you were replying to me or anything EdmondDantes_ 10 hrs ago #228

Bless your heart. Orrex 9 hrs ago #230

The key: 100% confidence one is 100% correct, obviously morally righteously correct. betsuni 21 hrs ago #212

This part: Scrivener7 13 hrs ago #224

I would remark that biggest reason Dems "lost" Mblaze Yesterday #168

Sounds like you have a problem with the jury system. LudwigPastorius Yesterday #171

She just made the argument iemanja 21 hrs ago #214

No. I think the jury system is kind of genius, actually. Scrivener7 13 hrs ago #225

I choose to belong to the Democratic party Progressive dog Yesterday #174

I choose to exercise my democratic rights iemanja 21 hrs ago #216

of course you do Progressive dog 10 hrs ago #227

Nether productive or appropriate? iemanja 6 hrs ago #232

Time and place. Zelda_Orchid Yesterday #182

Based OP. BannonsLiver Yesterday #185

The number of RECs, replies, and views to this OP shows just how important to the DU community... Ol Janx Spirit Yesterday #197

I think we all have perspectives and ideas that have value, even if only to further a productive dialectic Ilikepurple Yesterday #201

Absolutely agree & Thank You for saying it! 👍nt Raine Yesterday #200

complicit poozwah 14 hrs ago #219

I agree. But using terms like mcar 4 hrs ago #235