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EarlG

(23,671 posts)

169. I promise you I'm not trying to mansplain anything

Reply to questionseverything (Reply #159)

Fri Mar 24, 2023, 05:29 PM

Mar 2023

In fact I'm simply trying to seek understanding.

I've been given the impression by a number of replies here that making changes to reproductive health care terminology is going to eventually erase or eliminate the word "woman" from society at large -- that women will no longer allowed to identify as women -- with the follow-up suggestion that the "trans community" is to blame for this.

Is this a legitimate fear? I've literally been asked today whether I'm going to allow women to continue to call themselves women on DU. I gave the person a serious answer (of course I'm going to allow women to continue to call themselves women on DU), but I'm amazed that the question was even asked.

The question I was getting at in my last paragraph (which was not directed at you but was a reference to the content of the OP and to the hyperbole which is going on in this thread) is how does the phrase "people who need abortion services" get spun into "the trans community wants to tell me that I'm not allowed to identify as a woman?"

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I don't want to be identified by what body parts I have or don't have. [View all] boston bean Mar 2023 OP

Exactly, how does it affect my life to call somebody the name and gender they want to be called? Walleye Mar 2023 #1

That's what we want. Women also want to be called as who they are. BlackSkimmer Mar 2023 #34

Thank you, boston bean. I can only hope others who feel similarly will speak up as well. hlthe2b Mar 2023 #2

I feel the same way, and I know I'm not alone. BlackSkimmer Mar 2023 #102

That's why we have names, I think. MineralMan Mar 2023 #3

"Mammal"! I love it! Ocelot II Mar 2023 #5

Indeed she is. MineralMan Mar 2023 #7

Same here. Ocelot II Mar 2023 #4

The vast majority of trans people would never try to call a cis woman a "person with a uterus". meadowlander Mar 2023 #43

+1 nt Tree-Hugger Mar 2023 #49

I get that. I just wish there were a better term that was inclusive Ocelot II Mar 2023 #61

Literally nobody on "our side" is advocating for that term. meadowlander Mar 2023 #65

I see it Tree-Hugger Mar 2023 #73

I hope there aren't any "sides" and that we are all on the same one Ocelot II Mar 2023 #74

human being? Human IS, after all, the root word of humanity. nt allegorical oracle Mar 2023 #187

I disagree and believe that is transphobic...God knows we don't need to pile on this Demsrule86 Mar 2023 #6

That's kind of the point madville Mar 2023 #9

Expecting basic respect is a bridge too far? meadowlander Mar 2023 #54

Respect is a two way street madville Mar 2023 #89

Literally nobody is seriously suggesting that the one term is a replacement for the other. meadowlander Mar 2023 #126

Somebody has to be suggesting it Zeitghost Mar 2023 #155

I am sorry but they can they should be referred to how they choose and I do expect others to Demsrule86 Mar 2023 #150

What is the pile on? boston bean Mar 2023 #10

You said it perfectly well. BlackSkimmer Mar 2023 #35

Exactly. We are talking about respecting how people want to be identified, Ocelot II Mar 2023 #12

Respect is bidirectional Demsrule86. No one on this thread (nor many on the forum) would hlthe2b Mar 2023 #15

I am sorry what you say makes no sense. It just doesn't to me...a poster earlier said Demsrule86 Mar 2023 #151

Yes Hekate Mar 2023 #205

Then cis women should be allowed to refer to themselves as they prefer. BlackSkimmer Mar 2023 #28

Woman is an umbrella term. Cis or trans woman is used to distinguish between trans and non-trans meadowlander Mar 2023 #30

Exactly +1 nt Tree-Hugger Mar 2023 #76

It isn't the "cis" it is that some are advocating that the term "woman" be eliminated in context of hlthe2b Mar 2023 #87

Literally no one is advocating for that. meadowlander Mar 2023 #134

This message was self-deleted by its author hlthe2b Mar 2023 #135

How is it "respectful of the trans community" to tell a trans man with a uterus meadowlander Mar 2023 #147

Thank you that is exactly right... Demsrule86 Mar 2023 #153

Ah, they've moved into bullying PMs now meadowlander Mar 2023 #156

I support Transwomen...you mixed me up with someone else...I believe Trans folks have the right Demsrule86 Mar 2023 #172

Sorry, wasn't referring to you or implying the message was from you. meadowlander Mar 2023 #173

Trans women Demsrule86 Mar 2023 #177

+1 meadowlander Mar 2023 #179

Thank you! Ms. Toad Mar 2023 #182

I have seen it, and you appear (I could be wrong) to say exactly that thing... Hekate Mar 2023 #206

I absolutely am not saying that. meadowlander Mar 2023 #217

+1 Withywindle Mar 2023 #119

Exactly. hlthe2b Mar 2023 #44

+10000 Demsrule86 Mar 2023 #152

This message was self-deleted by its author Celerity Mar 2023 #200

What is this in reference of? Polybius Mar 2023 #8

See post 25 Takket Mar 2023 #26

Isn't this a strawman argument? EarlG Mar 2023 #11

I think # 2 is true. boston bean Mar 2023 #13

If you don't think the title of your own OP is true, what is this all about? EarlG Mar 2023 #17

THIS!!!! Tree-Hugger Mar 2023 #19

Um no. BlackSkimmer Mar 2023 #37

Again Tree-Hugger Mar 2023 #55

Medical professionals? Oneironaut Mar 2023 #80

I have primarily seen it... Tree-Hugger Mar 2023 #94

Just for clarity are you thinking I am a transphobe? boston bean Mar 2023 #38

. Tree-Hugger Mar 2023 #123

Have I called you out? Tree-Hugger Mar 2023 #124

Not sure what you are meaning. boston bean Mar 2023 #31

The title of your OP is "I don't want to be identified by what body parts I have or don't have." EarlG Mar 2023 #64

Just reading through this thread tells me I am really not misunderstanding. I wish boston bean Mar 2023 #66

. WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2023 #105

Post 148 & 128 questionseverything Mar 2023 #161

Posts 145, 149, 160 and 166 meadowlander Mar 2023 #167

"Pregnant people" does not erase women, it includes women who are pregnant. WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2023 #176

#2 is demonstrably true in a number of threads the past 24 hours. hlthe2b Mar 2023 #16

The problem is that we don't have a term that includes everyone Ocelot II Mar 2023 #18

I think "pregnant women and other pregnant persons" is fine, or however the trans community hlthe2b Mar 2023 #24

What's wrong with "pregnant people"? Why overcomplicate it? meadowlander Mar 2023 #128

why should 99% of those pregnant drop their prefered identifier from the term. hlthe2b Mar 2023 #132

Because it's not medically accurate and erases trans men meadowlander Mar 2023 #148

On DU? Tree-Hugger Mar 2023 #21

Again, is this true? EarlG Mar 2023 #23

I sent you an earlier pm. I will send another to your email hlthe2b Mar 2023 #29

This isn't a gotcha EarlG Mar 2023 #36

I emailed you and if you went through that long thread it is replete with examples. hlthe2b Mar 2023 #40

why are you allowing Tree-hugger (subthread beginning #33) accuse those who disagree with hlthe2b Mar 2023 #58

Those of us who try, as respectfully as we can, to discuss our concerns on a DISCUSSION board BlackSkimmer Mar 2023 #98

Nope Tree-Hugger Mar 2023 #104

Hi, Tree-Hugger here Tree-Hugger Mar 2023 #100

It is your accusation of transphobia toward nearly every other DUer that needs to be addressed. hlthe2b Mar 2023 #101

Every other DUer? Tree-Hugger Mar 2023 #107

Why don't you answer me in post 38. boston bean Mar 2023 #120

Answered nt Tree-Hugger Mar 2023 #125

Reminds me when Hillary said some Republicans were deplorable AZSkiffyGeek Mar 2023 #130

Yup... hlthe2b Mar 2023 #138

You didn't get it did you? AZSkiffyGeek Mar 2023 #140

You don't get it. we aren't talking about THIS thread. hlthe2b Mar 2023 #143

These tactics Tree-Hugger Mar 2023 #33

NO it is NOT. That is disgusting and unfair. hlthe2b Mar 2023 #41

Yes, it is Tree-Hugger Mar 2023 #45

+1000 FreeState Mar 2023 #103

Yep Tree-Hugger Mar 2023 #106

This is simply not true. BlackSkimmer Mar 2023 #50

The other thread? Tree-Hugger Mar 2023 #63

Its use towards all feminist women is a slur, for sure. hlthe2b Mar 2023 #82

That is incorrect Tree-Hugger Mar 2023 #85

Wat? Absolutely no one said that ever. Oneironaut Mar 2023 #77

Go back to the thread I know you posted on. It is replete with such comments. hlthe2b Mar 2023 #81

I read through it before, and, I honestly didn't see any. Oneironaut Mar 2023 #83

I just did for you. Read post 32. boston bean Mar 2023 #84

Post 32 doesn't say that at all. Oneironaut Mar 2023 #88

On the original thread subthread beginning with post#1-44. There are others, but that is the start. hlthe2b Mar 2023 #90

Do you have a specific example (e.g post #)? Oneironaut Mar 2023 #91

Honestly, I have aleady put so much time into this. It is in that subthread which you need to hlthe2b Mar 2023 #92

I have. People are referring to inclusiveness in a medical context, e.g. abortion. Oneironaut Mar 2023 #93

Yes. If you had read it, the issue is that they want only the term 'Pregnant person" used... hlthe2b Mar 2023 #95

What term... Tree-Hugger Mar 2023 #115

Pregnant women and other pregnant persons" or the equivalent. hlthe2b Mar 2023 #121

Pregnant women suggests that pregnancy is an inherent feature of womanhood LostOne4Ever Mar 2023 #193

No where in my post was that said. LostOne4Ever Mar 2023 #192

This reminds me of the old right wing fear-mongering about the ACLU. yardwork Mar 2023 #208

Nope. Voltaire2 Mar 2023 #214

Thank you! n/t Ms. Toad Mar 2023 #183

I agree mcar Mar 2023 #14

Rec! BlackSkimmer Mar 2023 #20

Who? Tree-Hugger Mar 2023 #22

You're never going to get that answer, I'm afraid. Oneironaut Mar 2023 #56

Oh I know Tree-Hugger Mar 2023 #67

Here is sone context if anyone doesn't understand the OP's remark Takket Mar 2023 #25

Gross Tree-Hugger Mar 2023 #48

Trans people generally don't want people to be identified by their body parts. Oneironaut Mar 2023 #27

I'm going to repost this every time this comes up: LostOne4Ever Mar 2023 #32

Thanks for posting this again Rob H. Mar 2023 #42

It is not about erasing womanhood. boston bean Mar 2023 #46

I am NOT willing to give up the term "woman." hlthe2b Mar 2023 #53

You shouldn't have to. At this time it is the only non offensive term for how I identify. boston bean Mar 2023 #57

Once again, who? Oneironaut Mar 2023 #69

I don't understand your comment. boston bean Mar 2023 #71

Who is saying that you need to give up calling yourself a woman? Oneironaut Mar 2023 #72

Read post 32. boston bean Mar 2023 #78

I read it as saying the exact opposite of how you understood it. Oneironaut Mar 2023 #86

It states that woman must accepted a unity term that excludes "women" hlthe2b Mar 2023 #96

No it does not. LostOne4Ever Mar 2023 #195

Exactly Tree-Hugger Mar 2023 #97

And then it says,"more inclusive language would be better " questionseverything Mar 2023 #118

* In the context of abortion * EarlG Mar 2023 #122

Why can't the phrasing be, " women and anyone needing abortion services " questionseverything Mar 2023 #139

It can be -- but at the same time, what's wrong with "people who need abortion services"? EarlG Mar 2023 #144

What's wrong with,"people who need abortion services " questionseverything Mar 2023 #159

I promise you I'm not trying to mansplain anything EarlG Mar 2023 #169

medical journals are using terms other than woman to be more inclusive. boston bean Mar 2023 #185

The op wasn't talking about abortion services, other posters questionseverything Mar 2023 #190

Hi, EarlG Hekate Mar 2023 #213

Hello there EarlG Mar 2023 #218

No. with due respect most here know exactly what you are saying. That is not the issue. hlthe2b Mar 2023 #141

No it did not LostOne4Ever Mar 2023 #194

Okay lets work with that LostOne4Ever Mar 2023 #191

I'm convinced it has to be about the Biden administration. betsuni Mar 2023 #199

Thank you, thank you, thank you Tree-Hugger Mar 2023 #47

Thank you for applying basic common sense to this dicussion. meadowlander Mar 2023 #60

My friend was born with no reproductive organs. LakeArenal Mar 2023 #39

I think this is a situation where the language is going to have to catch up. Scrivener7 Mar 2023 #51

My personal opinion (FWIW) is that when talking about an overall subject, haele Mar 2023 #52

Trans rights are human rights old as dirt Mar 2023 #59

Of course they are. boston bean Mar 2023 #62

I get it vercetti2021 Mar 2023 #68

Post removed Post removed Mar 2023 #70

Women matter vercetti2021 Mar 2023 #75

We shouldn't be fighting at all. Feminist women, especially on DU support the LGBTQ community hlthe2b Mar 2023 #79

Post removed Post removed Mar 2023 #109

You matter Tree-Hugger Mar 2023 #112

You matter. Don't give up. You are loved. yardwork Mar 2023 #203

Attempts to eliminate the term "woman" serve patriarchy. delisen Mar 2023 #99

🔼 THIS!!! 🔼🔼 hlthe2b Mar 2023 #127

Nobody has attempted to eliminate the term woman. Voltaire2 Mar 2023 #216

Disappointing and utterly unsurprising to see people on DU falling for right-wing talking points. WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2023 #108

Agreed Tree-Hugger Mar 2023 #110

Well said. WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2023 #111

The right-wing talking points from Ana Kasparian? OilemFirchen Mar 2023 #113

Incredible, isn't it? As I say, people can fall for anything. WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2023 #114

You can say that again! OilemFirchen Mar 2023 #117

I think that's what's happening, too. yardwork Mar 2023 #204

This seems a contradictory take. Act_of_Reparation Mar 2023 #116

"pregnant women and trans individuals" How hard is that? hlthe2b Mar 2023 #129

Or just "pregnant people"/"people who can get pregnant". Made it easier. meadowlander Mar 2023 #131

You insist on eliminating the preferred term of millions of pregnant self-identifying women. hlthe2b Mar 2023 #133

"Woman" does not equal "pregnant person". meadowlander Mar 2023 #136

As you well know i was referring to a term for those pregnant, not women in general hlthe2b Mar 2023 #137

Isn't the discussion about how one identifies? boston bean Mar 2023 #142

No it is a discussion about how we refer to people who can get pregnant. meadowlander Mar 2023 #145

A person who identifies as a woman boston bean Mar 2023 #146

Yes fine. meadowlander Mar 2023 #149

So, for real, what will my medical records state? boston bean Mar 2023 #154

That's between you and you medical provider(s). meadowlander Mar 2023 #157

Really? Then what is this all about then? boston bean Mar 2023 #158

When we are talking at the population scale about people capable of being pregnant meadowlander Mar 2023 #160

Ok so what are they going to call me? boston bean Mar 2023 #163

Whatever you ask them to when the discussion is only referring to you. meadowlander Mar 2023 #164

But it may not be inclusive? boston bean Mar 2023 #165

There doesn't have to only be one inclusive term. meadowlander Mar 2023 #166

Seems to me, based on your comments a box to check boston bean Mar 2023 #168

I'm not sure what you're asking meadowlander Mar 2023 #170

I understand all of that. But the question boston bean Mar 2023 #174

Yes, so do I. It's always going to be contextual. meadowlander Mar 2023 #178

That is just not the case. It is not only contextual. boston bean Mar 2023 #186

Medical records Tree-Hugger Mar 2023 #188

Some "trans individuals" do not possess the requisite anatomy to bear children. Act_of_Reparation Mar 2023 #189

Thank you for trying, boston bean Hekate Mar 2023 #162

I agree. Some identify me as a dick or asshole. Kaleva Mar 2023 #171

Well., if the boston bean Mar 2023 #175

Interesting and curious discussion. H2O Man Mar 2023 #180

+1 leftstreet Mar 2023 #196

Please provide a link to any progressive individual Ms. Toad Mar 2023 #181

I don't want others identifying me as, for example, a person with a uterus. boston bean Mar 2023 #184

I didn't miss the point. Ms. Toad Mar 2023 #197

Thank you for your hard and grueling work in this thread Withywindle Mar 2023 #201

The attitude of some on DU toward trans individual is heartbreaking. Ms. Toad Mar 2023 #210

Thank you LostOne4Ever Mar 2023 #212

TY, Ms. Toad. The hate and bigotry toward transfolk that is Roisin Ni Fiachra Mar 2023 #215

Thank you for this excellent post. yardwork Mar 2023 #207

You're welcome. n/t Ms. Toad Mar 2023 #211

This Thread is Rife with Misunderstanding Haveadream Mar 2023 #198

It's really not that threatening Withywindle Mar 2023 #202

This whole thing is about Ana Kasparian being mad at the Biden administration. betsuni Mar 2023 #209