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FBaggins

(28,519 posts)
22. I think I can add some context
Tue Jun 28, 2022, 08:07 AM
Jun 2022

Much of this is bluster. The Supreme Court generally doesn't make determinations of fact at all. The "prayed quietly" comes directly out of the 9th circuit record that they were reviewing. Gorsuch didn't make it up.

But your reading is still probably correct. The ruling only applies (directly anyway) to "a guy praying quietly while his students are otherwise occupied". Having said that - the court seems to be making clear that you would have to move pretty far from that description before they would have a problem with the behavior. It's unlikely that an occurrence where others decide to join him and pray at the same time will be seen as crossing the line.

One key element that many are missing (apparently including the dissent) is that the case really only applies to the three events in October 2015 that resulted in his firing. The dissent points out a much longer record that included arguably clearer cases that could result in his firing, but SCOTUS doesn't do that. They don't pull up other incidents and say "well... he could have been fired for that so that's good enough".

From the dissent -

Under the Court’s analysis, presumably this would be a different case if the District had cited Kennedy’s repeated disruptions of school programming and violations of school policy regarding public access to the field as grounds for suspending him. As the District did not articulate those grounds, the Court assesses only the District’s Establishment Clause concerns. It errs by assessing them divorced from the context and history of Kennedy’s prayer practice.


I'd respond that... yes... as you catch in the OP, this could have been a different case. The error (and in the dissent as well) is the implication that the court should have just ignored the fact that the school district screwed up. It sounds like they could have built a much stronger case for firing him... but didn't.

A liberal court might have vacated the ruling and sent it all the way back to the initial court for additional proceedings that might add some of that relevant information, but I'm not sure that it could be fixed (because the district can't change what they've said about why they suspended him)... but at the very least, they could have ruled in his favor on much narrower grounds that did not overturn existing precedent and made explicit that some of the other behaviors in the record could legitimately have resulted in termination.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Unable to reply for fear of being ejected. lindysalsagal Jun 2022 #1
I don't understand that. It's a question about applying the ruling. Scrivener7 Jun 2022 #2
Unable to reply for fear of being ejected. lindysalsagal Jun 2022 #3
I'm with you and I'm Jewish. mucifer Jun 2022 #11
Ejected from what? A fighter jet that's about to crash? Not sure what you mean. Hope you are ok emulatorloo Jun 2022 #30
Poster has 3 hides. Mosby Jun 2022 #40
Yeah I have been there. Four bad hides, one wacky jury away from a ban . Thanks for the heads up. emulatorloo Jun 2022 #45
A heads up, you could get a hide for a post like this. So probably better just to lay low for emulatorloo Jun 2022 #46
May I respectfully suggest... Mister Ed Jun 2022 #31
You just did reply to the post. Albeit in a cryptic way. Politicub Jun 2022 #38
IANAL, but intrepidity Jun 2022 #4
"on the 50 yard line in the middle of the game." Scrivener7 Jun 2022 #5
As I posted elsewhere intrepidity Jun 2022 #8
Oh, but that's one of those parts of the Bible they don't have to follow. Scrivener7 Jun 2022 #9
This message was self-deleted by its author Mosby Jun 2022 #41
The junta set the precedent that "tradition" overrides separation of church and state. John1956PA Jun 2022 #6
But there was no tradition till this guy started it, right? So is it that anyone can do something Scrivener7 Jun 2022 #7
Thank you, too. The junta used this case as a bulldozer to overrule a 1970s case. John1956PA Jun 2022 #14
That is feckin' terrifying. Scrivener7 Jun 2022 #16
An honest lower would be at a loss applying this case to a similar claim brought to it. John1956PA Jun 2022 #21
So I guess we will be seeing more of these eroding the fundamental basis for our country. Scrivener7 Jun 2022 #23
You are welcome, and thank you for your cordial replies. John1956PA Jun 2022 #25
To you too. Scrivener7 Jun 2022 #29
I would love to see any ruling like this ... Novara Jun 2022 #10
I would love to know this. Lawyers? Anyone know? Scrivener7 Jun 2022 #12
One of the first things I learned in law school is that the 'facts' Tomconroy Jun 2022 #15
So this is not unusual? Interesting. I never knew. But then what does Scrivener7 Jun 2022 #17
There is a 'free exercise clause' as well as a 'non-establishment' Tomconroy Jun 2022 #13
Tell me about this. Are you saying they are justifying his act on the basis of these two? Scrivener7 Jun 2022 #18
This really isn't my issue and I haven't read the opinion, Tomconroy Jun 2022 #19
THANK YOU, ALL! This is a bit clearer to me now. I appreciate all the replies. Scrivener7 Jun 2022 #20
I think I can add some context FBaggins Jun 2022 #22
Bluster, and, it seems from the answers above that this is one part of a whole that will Scrivener7 Jun 2022 #26
I don't know... but I doubt that they need to FBaggins Jun 2022 #28
Thanks, that's helpful. nt sl8 Jun 2022 #27
One of the areas of the case I found interesting Sympthsical Jun 2022 #37
+1, uponit7771 Jun 2022 #44
+1, uponit7771 Jun 2022 #43
When the facts of a case change or are wrong, it can be appealed. Baitball Blogger Jun 2022 #24
That could be intentional FBaggins Jun 2022 #32
Does this coach thinks God cares who wins the football game? Emile Jun 2022 #33
Would such a prayer occur before the game? nt FBaggins Jun 2022 #34
I have a question. Haven't footballers been praying leftyladyfrommo Jun 2022 #35
There is nothing preventing players from praying. When I was a HS Coach, I stood JCMach1 Jun 2022 #39
Trying to picture Jesus in a football helmet, wnylib Jun 2022 #36
I will repeat moniss Jun 2022 #42
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