General Discussion

PTWB

(4,131 posts)

116. You're close to my point but not exactly there.

Mon Jan 3, 2022, 09:21 PM

Jan 2022

My question is why we are expending energy and political capital trying to ban the AR-15 when the following statements are true:

1. There is 0 chance that we will get an AR-15 ban passed in this political climate.

2. Even if we could ban the AR-15, doing so would have a statistically insignificant effect on the overall gun violence epidemic in America.

Why are we expending energy on something that isn't going to pass and if it did pass, wouldn't even register as a blip on the gun violence radar? What the hell is wrong with us that we are letting emotion stand in the way of pragmatism? Calling for AR-15 bans, mandatory buybacks, and national registries accomplishes only one thing: making it more difficult to pass gun control measures that actually stand a chance.

I've got a proposal in the RKBA forum that gets us Universal Background Checks, Safe Storage Laws, & Minimum Standards for Concealed Carry. Those things would actually save lives and could actually pass in this political climate if we compromise instead of demonize.

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How insane is it that you could own a deadly machine like an AR-15 and not need to register it? [View all] ColinC Jan 2022 OP

In places like Misery and Tex-ass, toxic is the only kind of masculinity. Aristus Jan 2022 #1

At least in Texas I think a majority support registration of all weapons ColinC Jan 2022 #2

Until someone tries running on that and the propaganda machines kick in gear BeyondGeography Jan 2022 #3

Very few states require registration of certain types of long gun Kaleva Jan 2022 #4

More states PROHIBIT registries than requires them!!? ColinC Jan 2022 #5

Yep DetroitLegalBeagle Jan 2022 #6

This is why the estimates for the number of guns in the US vary by 100 million or more Amishman Jan 2022 #10

Adam Lanza's AR-15 was registered hack89 Jan 2022 #7

Should people who use their weapons in a crime be held accountable? ColinC Jan 2022 #14

Vehicles are registered for tax purposes to fund roads etc MichMan Jan 2022 #19

They are regularly used for that purpose, actually ColinC Jan 2022 #23

People can see a license plate on a get away car if the criminal hasn't removed it MichMan Jan 2022 #30

Not an analogy. Just common sense. ColinC Jan 2022 #32

Not common sense either. Straw Man Jan 2022 #150

Do you know what a lead is? ColinC Jan 2022 #151

Yes, and I told you where gun registration info "leads" in investigating crimes. Straw Man Jan 2022 #157

Person who gun was stolen from ColinC Jan 2022 #158

Umm ... Straw Man Jan 2022 #159

Your handle checks out. ColinC Jan 2022 #160

Attacking my username? That smacks of desperation. Straw Man Jan 2022 #163

This message was self-deleted by its author ColinC Jan 2022 #164

So your assumption is... ColinC Jan 2022 #166

Police puffery and unsubstantiated claims ... Straw Man Jan 2022 #177

So should I trust a random anonymous poster about how police investigations work? ColinC Jan 2022 #178

Please explain to me how police investigations solve crimes though gun registration. Straw Man Jan 2022 #179

What part do you not understand? ColinC Jan 2022 #180

The part where you claim this is about solving crimes. Straw Man Jan 2022 #181

Perhaps you missed the last sentence? ColinC Jan 2022 #182

Nope, didn't miss that. Straw Man Jan 2022 #184

It comes from a credible source ColinC Jan 2022 #185

Credible source? Straw Man Jan 2022 #186

Another part of the article cites this. Did you also fail to read it? ColinC Jan 2022 #187

I read the article you posted. I assumed the link was for attribution. Straw Man Jan 2022 #191

Actually the way it works is that a portion of the article is shared ColinC Jan 2022 #193

Wrong again. Straw Man Jan 2022 #221

Here's another ColinC Jan 2022 #189

Thirty-six pages of PR from the Chicago Mayor's Office? Straw Man Jan 2022 #192

Wait. So the first segment summarizing how it is done wasn't good enough. ColinC Jan 2022 #194

The first segment didn't "summarize" how it was done. Straw Man Jan 2022 #196

That's easy. PTWB Jan 2022 #168

Super glad that exists. ColinC Jan 2022 #169

What clues are you going to get if you don't have the weapon in hand? BGBD Jan 2022 #172

Law enforcement seems to disagree. ColinC Jan 2022 #173

Are we just posting things that have nothing to do with the argument? BGBD Jan 2022 #174

Your argument portends to most crimes not having the weapon ColinC Jan 2022 #175

People that do use a gun in a crime are held accountable MichMan Jan 2022 #29

Actually most people who commit a crime with a gun likely get away with it ColinC Jan 2022 #33

Then you should be registering handguns, not rifles. hack89 Jan 2022 #56

Are you thinking that someone who legally bought a gun... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2022 #98

Canada tried and gave up hack89 Jan 2022 #8

There's no need to register an AR-15 in 44 out of 50 states. Dial H For Hero Jan 2022 #9

Better check the compliance rate in NY and CT first hack89 Jan 2022 #11

It is insane to own an AR-15. BeckyDem Jan 2022 #12

The AR-15 is actually one of the most popular hunting rifles in America. Dial H For Hero Jan 2022 #15

Yes, like I said, sick America. BeckyDem Jan 2022 #16

What's wrong with hunting? PTWB Jan 2022 #18

Sorry you have a typo. ColinC Jan 2022 #20

Okay, let's go with your version. PTWB Jan 2022 #26

For one it encourages hunters to waste ammo through the high capacity mags ColinC Jan 2022 #28

Many states limit the maximum magazine capacity when hunting PTWB Jan 2022 #46

High-capacity magazines are illegal in MI, dunno about other areas. JustABozoOnThisBus Jan 2022 #48

that the AR-15 equates to high capacity is a pretty common misconception cadoman Jan 2022 #50

The "easily modifiable" part is kinda my point. ColinC Jan 2022 #52

Actually, you missed the point. Straw Man Jan 2022 #188

Definitely didn't miss the point. ColinC Jan 2022 #190

Definitely did. Straw Man Jan 2022 #197

"If it can be modified to higher caliber, that bothers me." EX500rider Jan 2022 #211

Are you bothered by the T/C Contender handgun? Dial H For Hero Jan 2022 #215

You can't hunt legally with high capacity magazines Zeitghost Jan 2022 #70

Hunters Have been using semi automatic rifles and shotguns for well over a century. Dial H For Hero Jan 2022 #21

This message was self-deleted by its author ColinC Jan 2022 #31

Yeah the civilian ones don't have 3 round burst EX500rider Jan 2022 #36

Easily modifiable. ColinC Jan 2022 #39

What makes you think it is easily modified EX500rider Jan 2022 #40

This message was self-deleted by its author ColinC Jan 2022 #43

... ColinC Jan 2022 #49

Please tell me you're not taking that video seriously. It's an obvious joke. Dial H For Hero Jan 2022 #54

Yeah it was funny. ColinC Jan 2022 #58

I wouldn't take anything the OP says about this subject seriously, MarineCombatEngineer Jan 2022 #59

Oh, I don't, believe me. Dial H For Hero Jan 2022 #64

And I'm just sitting down for dinner before I crawl into my sleeper MarineCombatEngineer Jan 2022 #67

Right. I'm not a gun nut. ColinC Jan 2022 #69

I'm not either, MarineCombatEngineer Jan 2022 #72

It's highly illegal to convert without registration. PTWB Jan 2022 #55

Actually I don't think that a criminal is going to convert their weapon to fully auto ColinC Jan 2022 #57

That's ridiculous. PTWB Jan 2022 #60

Why do you think semi automatic weapons are necessary? ColinC Jan 2022 #62

Semi automatic weapons are used in a huge number of crimes. PTWB Jan 2022 #63

I'm talking about allowing AR15s to be sold en masse. ColinC Jan 2022 #66

They're fantastic rifles. PTWB Jan 2022 #68

For me, I lost a friend in a mass shooting ColinC Jan 2022 #71

I'm sorry for your loss. PTWB Jan 2022 #74

Thank you. And you are probably right. ColinC Jan 2022 #78

Firearms are inherently legal in our country. PTWB Jan 2022 #80

... ColinC Jan 2022 #86

Perhaps. PTWB Jan 2022 #89

Well I include societal collapse as a possible factor within 20 years.. ColinC Jan 2022 #91

Societal collapse is much more likely than getting an AR ban passed. PTWB Jan 2022 #92

I agree wholeheartedly with the first statement. ColinC Jan 2022 #93

I agree wholeheartedly with the first statement. ColinC Jan 2022 #94

These 11 mass shootings involved an AR-15-style weapon. BeckyDem Jan 2022 #107

Yes. PTWB Jan 2022 #111

Your conlusions suggest they're such a "small percent" of the problem, why take them off the market. BeckyDem Jan 2022 #113

You're close to my point but not exactly there. PTWB Jan 2022 #116

That is not demonizing. BeckyDem Jan 2022 #119

They're not a small percentage of murders? PTWB Jan 2022 #120

I think we're done here. BeckyDem Jan 2022 #121

We're done if you want to be done. PTWB Jan 2022 #123

I waded through the statistics from the FBI krispos42 Jan 2022 #233

My deepest condolences to the loss of your friend, MarineCombatEngineer Jan 2022 #75

Thanks ColinC Jan 2022 #77

Let's game this out......... MarineCombatEngineer Jan 2022 #79

I think the fact that "how would you prevent a civil war if guns were banned" ColinC Jan 2022 #82

I commend you for your beliefs, even if I disagree with them. MarineCombatEngineer Jan 2022 #84

Thanks so much for the kind words. ColinC Jan 2022 #90

On civil war ColinC Jan 2022 #83

I couldn't agree with you more. MarineCombatEngineer Jan 2022 #87

You mean banned like in Mexico? EX500rider Jan 2022 #85

No. I mean banned like in Japan. Or the uk. Mexico is definitely an exception. ColinC Jan 2022 #88

Sure you can cherry pick European states with low rates. EX500rider Jan 2022 #99

Actually choosing mexico is cherry picking ColinC Jan 2022 #104

Dead is dead...if you are actually worried about people being murdered and not how. EX500rider Jan 2022 #106

Again. Discussing shooting deaths. ColinC Jan 2022 #109

OK EX500rider Jan 2022 #125

Cool let's outlaw all guns then. ColinC Jan 2022 #130

Sure good luck with that EX500rider Jan 2022 #131

Thanks I'll need it. ColinC Jan 2022 #132

"disregards the numbers of deaths caused by gun accidents" EX500rider Jan 2022 #140

Are you seriously comparing a machine designed to kill people with "accidentally falling"? ColinC Jan 2022 #142

You brought up accidental deaths by firearms like it was a significant number which is not... EX500rider Jan 2022 #145

You missed the point. The issue isn't about the number of deaths ColinC Jan 2022 #195

Getting rid of any guns I might own won't help save anyone's lives EX500rider Jan 2022 #204

If we are going to compare guns to cars ColinC Jan 2022 #222

Get back to me when cars are in the Bill of Rights EX500rider Jan 2022 #224

And you didn't answer my question EX500rider Jan 2022 #226

Hell, I'm even uncomfortable ForgedCrank Jan 2022 #135

Requires machine milling isn't necessarily easy EX500rider Jan 2022 #73

I think the N. Hollywood bank robbery was the last time. nt MarineCombatEngineer Jan 2022 #76

Certainly the last one i heard of, 1997 nt EX500rider Jan 2022 #81

Might be a newer instance but... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2022 #133

I think there was one in Miami involving the FBI but I forgot when EX500rider Jan 2022 #134

An AR-15 *is* a semiautomatic rifle. When used to hunt, the user must obey all relevant game Dial H For Hero Jan 2022 #44

The AR-15 when being used for hunting ColinC Jan 2022 #45

The Winchester Model 1905 I mentioned had a 10 round magazine manufactured for it. Dial H For Hero Jan 2022 #51

Was your Winchester originally built for the military? ColinC Jan 2022 #53

Nope. My 1903 Springfield bolt action rifle was, though. So what? Dial H For Hero Jan 2022 #61

"Is not legally allowed to use all of the things that an AR-15 is already built to include." EX500rider Jan 2022 #212

None of that is significant or relevant. ForgedCrank Jan 2022 #136

Okay how bout this: ColinC Jan 2022 #139

The law of unintended consequences EX500rider Jan 2022 #141

Curious. There are dozens of countries where nearly 0 people own firearms. Why did you pick Mexico? ColinC Jan 2022 #143

Because it clearly shows how criminals and drug cartels and gangs behave with a disarmed populace EX500rider Jan 2022 #147

Doesn't sound like banning guns was the issue there, then :) ColinC Jan 2022 #149

I'll ask again: EX500rider Jan 2022 #152

The two are completely different things. ColinC Jan 2022 #153

Yes good of you to admit it EX500rider Jan 2022 #205

Of course gun homicides do contribute to homicide rates ColinC Jan 2022 #207

This message was self-deleted by its author ColinC Jan 2022 #209

The US is a lot more like Mexico EX500rider Jan 2022 #206

Mexico is arguably run by drug cartels ColinC Jan 2022 #210

A "much older nation"? Straw Man Jan 2022 #225

I'd like for you to think ForgedCrank Jan 2022 #144

I have two friends killed by guns unnecessarily. ColinC Jan 2022 #148

Although I don't think ForgedCrank Jan 2022 #154

I think I have a far different idea of what is realistic and achievable. ColinC Jan 2022 #170

Was waiting for this! Lol! Nt USALiberal Jan 2022 #95

I have hunters in my family iemanja Jan 2022 #183

...And the old myth "The AR-15 will destroy the meat of any animal it hits" rears it's head yet again. Dial H For Hero Jan 2022 #198

Try to follow the plot iemanja Jan 2022 #199

An AR-15 in 6.8 SPC using a 5 round magazine is a deer rifle. Dial H For Hero Jan 2022 #201

"Pretending the AR-15 is a hunting weapon doesn't hold water." Stats say otherwise. EX500rider Jan 2022 #213

Does anyone actually need an AR-15 to hunt? iemanja Jan 2022 #214

How exactly does using an AR-15 "shoot game to oblivion"? I would really like to know. Dial H For Hero Jan 2022 #216

It's all a joke to you iemanja Jan 2022 #218

Au contraire, I find the comparison of a rifle to a nuclear weapon laughable. Dial H For Hero Jan 2022 #219

I remember you iemanja Jan 2022 #223

I haven't the faintest idea who you are or what you're speaking of. Dial H For Hero Jan 2022 #227

Thousands certainly aren't dead every year from AR-15's or indeed all rifles. EX500rider Jan 2022 #234

1st you have poor grasp of what is a WMD... EX500rider Jan 2022 #217

I don't think there are any hunters in your family Kaleva Jan 2022 #220

A post with that much info on cartridges might upset someone. Doesn't it need a Dial H For Hero Jan 2022 #228

I'm not expecting a reply Kaleva Jan 2022 #235

Likely so. Dial H For Hero Jan 2022 #236

THANK YOU Skittles Jan 2022 #137

+1. BeckyDem Jan 2022 #200

Given that the AR-15 has been around for almost 60 years, Dial H For Hero Jan 2022 #202

Oh yes, Murika is normal. BeckyDem Jan 2022 #203

It really isn't at all krispos42 Jan 2022 #232

I think there should be a blood alcohol limit to carrying firearms Walleye Jan 2022 #13

Plus registration, plus insurance, plus license requirements and training. ColinC Jan 2022 #17

Insurance for what? EX500rider Jan 2022 #34

There's never been an accident with a gun where somebody is injured? ColinC Jan 2022 #35

What I said was insurance won't cover crimes committed with firearms EX500rider Jan 2022 #38

You said "insurance for what?" ColinC Jan 2022 #41

"The rate of accidents at the hands of guns could absolutely warrant their being insured" EX500rider Jan 2022 #96

And wherever there is liability in even the cases you provided ColinC Jan 2022 #105

How so? EX500rider Jan 2022 #108

And if somebody hurts themselves on your property and you have no insurance ColinC Jan 2022 #110

Yes but insurance is not required, people can already get firearm insurance if they want. EX500rider Jan 2022 #115

Unlike with your house, I think firearm insurance should be required ColinC Jan 2022 #126

Given the very low rate of firearms accidents ... Straw Man Jan 2022 #155

Good. They can make a comeback by supporting a law to require firearm insurance! ColinC Jan 2022 #156

Being a vendor of gun insurance ... Straw Man Jan 2022 #161

Again. Name checks out. ColinC Jan 2022 #162

I see you that failed Analogy 101. Straw Man Jan 2022 #165

Yes I said that. They are both mentioned next to each other in the constitution. ColinC Jan 2022 #167

The 18th Amendment lasted 15 years. Straw Man Jan 2022 #176

Not as insane as owning it in the first place!! InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2022 #22

I own one. Does that make me insane? Dial H For Hero Jan 2022 #25

well, it certainly doesn't prove you're sane. maxsolomon Jan 2022 #42

I agree. Just as not owning one doesn't prove you're sane. Dial H For Hero Jan 2022 #47

I guess we just go along as before. maxsolomon Jan 2022 #65

+1 uponit7771 Jan 2022 #101

How would you strap "methicillin-susceptible Staphylococcus aureus" to your chest? nt EX500rider Jan 2022 #114

Military-Style Semi-Automatic. maxsolomon Jan 2022 #237

The fact no one can say "hell no" is bad enough for you NOT to own a PGR. Calis PGR laws should uponit7771 Jan 2022 #100

"PGR"? Dial H For Hero Jan 2022 #129

Gunsplainers don't seem to mind. Kingofalldems Jan 2022 #24

Democratic Party doesn't mind either which is why there's no serious push to register such guns Kaleva Jan 2022 #112

Missouri doesn't have any gun registration. LiberatedUSA Jan 2022 #27

Considering we are in a fight for democracy right now. LiberatedUSA Jan 2022 #37

All PGR's owners should be licensed and registered IMHO. PGRs are designed for mass kill not defense uponit7771 Jan 2022 #97

What's a PGR? n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2022 #102

Here : ) EX500rider Jan 2022 #124

Here :) discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2022 #127

Hmm... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2022 #128

I have to assume Precision Guided Rifle SYFROYH Jan 2022 #138

What is a PGR? LiberatedUSA Jan 2022 #118

What would the state do with the registration info? BusterMove Jan 2022 #103

Yeah, I don't know, either. Act_of_Reparation Jan 2022 #117

K&R UTUSN Jan 2022 #122

I always like these types of posts..... Fla_Democrat Jan 2022 #146

Is there a difference between the concepts of registered and licensed? Sapient Donkey Jan 2022 #171

If a weapon is legal, I am against the government knowing I own it. marie999 Jan 2022 #208

I fail to see how registering one will stop crime krispos42 Jan 2022 #229

Might find the perp. yagotme Jan 2022 #230

Very few states require registration fescuerescue Jan 2022 #231