General Discussion

hlthe2b

(111,459 posts)

182. Some of the arguments here leave me speechless (like the poster upstream who maintains this

Mon Oct 25, 2021, 11:50 AM

Oct 2021

responsibility for the actor is not unlike the surgeon being PRIMARILY responsible for ensuring the sterility of instruments and OR before they operate!) So, I suppose they would be willing to delay emergency surgery for the 3-5 hours required while their surgeon personally supervises sterilization of instruments and cleaning of the operating room (or the week-10 days for bacterial cultures to come back obtained from EVERYTHING) before that surgeon declares it safe to operate. (Unbelievable).

I'm happy to see this result in a "no live-capable guns on sets" policy in the future, but mere props plus CGI enhancement. But this excoriation of Baldwin for something he was NOT the professional hired to perform--when even the limited information available to date show that that professional was clearly not supervising or overseeing-- suggests to me something other than mere "concern."

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If it hasn't already been said, some support for Alec Baldwin as we know [View all] mahina Oct 2021 OP

K&R! SheltieLover Oct 2021 #1

I feel for him. jimfields33 Oct 2021 #13

It's a movie. Murder mysteries do not glamorize murder. They tell stories. Maraya1969 Oct 2021 #14

Too many guns in Hollywood stories. jimfields33 Oct 2021 #17

Too many guns sold at gun stores. LakeArenal Oct 2021 #37

This is certainly true. gldstwmn Oct 2021 #60

It's a Western set in the 1800's. gldstwmn Oct 2021 #59

sounded kind of knee jerk stopdiggin Oct 2021 #133

It's really weird seeing people like Liam Neeson in the "Taken" series... WarGamer Oct 2021 #71

All the gun nut movies sicken me (and our culture), but the even more obvious question... lagomorph777 Oct 2021 #173

Amen Jilly_in_VA Oct 2021 #2

If you touch a gun the first rule of gun safety is to make sure it is unloaded. former9thward Oct 2021 #9

I've only seen claims that Alec left New Mexico from Fox. Niagara Oct 2021 #15

He had permission from the sheriff to leave anyway. He's already answered questions. meadowlander Oct 2021 #19

I thought so, that's why I asked for a credible source. Niagara Oct 2021 #23

Leave it to FOX, they didn't learn from Seth Rich. 2Gingersnaps Oct 2021 #156

That article doesn't say he left. gldstwmn Oct 2021 #75

No, because as of last night he was still there. gldstwmn Oct 2021 #74

How do you know he didn't speak with the investigators already and get their permission Maraya1969 Oct 2021 #16

That is not how it works on movie sets. There are professionals who handle the guns Evergreen Emerald Oct 2021 #18

Armourer is 24, only second movie as head armourer, meadowlander Oct 2021 #20

I read a similar article. Very scary. BlackSkimmer Oct 2021 #22

Training? Codifer Oct 2021 #47

She was also a scab wackadoo wabbit Oct 2021 #81

Yes-- very key point! Non-union! LymphocyteLover Oct 2021 #83

I have not seen this Zeitghost Oct 2021 #115

don't think that is right stopdiggin Oct 2021 #135

I don't believe that to be the case. LisaL Oct 2021 #145

No. former9thward Oct 2021 #35

You really don't know what you are talking about. Cattledog Oct 2021 #39

Film sets do not get an exemption from standard gun safety. former9thward Oct 2021 #67

Wow. All judged out. Before a release of more info. LakeArenal Oct 2021 #40

Outside a movie set, I could not agree with you more. But there are procedures on sets and hlthe2b Oct 2021 #53

Assistant Director was supposed to check the gun before giving it to Baldwin. LisaL Oct 2021 #66

Obviously their procedures were not followed and incompetence was present. hlthe2b Oct 2021 #77

Reports that some crew members were doing some target practice with the guns womanofthehills Oct 2021 #165

Theater doesn't happen - and that would include movies - unless soldierant Oct 2021 #110

Let's look at what hapopened on that set. former9thward Oct 2021 #68

No one is saying the procedures were either appropriate nor followed. hlthe2b Oct 2021 #76

First Rule Of Weapons Handling... COL Mustard Oct 2021 #26

However you want to phrase it the rule was broken. former9thward Oct 2021 #32

Yup. Another Person COL Mustard Oct 2021 #34

But it WAS loaded... druidity33 Oct 2021 #84

The difference between Progressives and conservatives OrangeJoe Oct 2021 #52

He attended a memorial service in NM gldstwmn Oct 2021 #62

And? former9thward Oct 2021 #69

His family. Not him. You made it seem like he skipped town. gldstwmn Oct 2021 #72

+1 MustLoveBeagles Oct 2021 #157

According to news reports today it looks as though the assistant director was known for lax security gldstwmn Oct 2021 #158

That's not how it works on film sets. Merlot Oct 2021 #120

Film sets do not get an exemption from standard gun safety. former9thward Oct 2021 #141

True, and there are professionals who are there for the gun safety. Merlot Oct 2021 #147

He was also a producer. former9thward Oct 2021 #148

How many... inthewind21 Oct 2021 #205

I'm not going to drag the guy right now ForgedCrank Oct 2021 #3

Alec is distraught as any normal person would be. Niagara Oct 2021 #4

I'm Not Really A Fan Of Alec COL Mustard Oct 2021 #27

Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of his either meadowlander Oct 2021 #38

Good post. n/t NH Ethylene Oct 2021 #126

Same here. Niagara Oct 2021 #48

Very sad situation. Joinfortmill Oct 2021 #5

I'm not a fan, but my heart goes out to both the victims and him. Lunabell Oct 2021 #6

it's a terrible tragedy Skittles Oct 2021 #7

So tragic... Hulk Oct 2021 #8

Absolutely. This is tragic for the family and for Alec. jrthin Oct 2021 #10

K&R 2naSalit Oct 2021 #11

I'm a big fan and absolutely know this was a horrible accident tavernier Oct 2021 #12

I'm Sure The Civil Lawsuits Will Follow COL Mustard Oct 2021 #28

I don't know BeerBarrelPolka Oct 2021 #29

Yeah, But I Think That Had A Larger Budget COL Mustard Oct 2021 #30

Yeah BeerBarrelPolka Oct 2021 #31

I can't even imagine Baldwin wanting to, wnylib Oct 2021 #85

He also held the title of "Producer", the person who makes budget decisions for the project. NullTuples Oct 2021 #150

He's one of twelve producers according to imdb. meadowlander Oct 2021 #160

He was on set, and had the ability to influence what happened. It's that simple. NullTuples Oct 2021 #164

He might not have had those specific duties. wnylib Oct 2021 #161

I've a cousin who did producing for a while. Any one of them has enough clout. NullTuples Oct 2021 #166

I think it was more a case of wnylib Oct 2021 #167

Ah inthewind21 Oct 2021 #206

Then ask your cousin what a line producer is. gldstwmn Oct 2021 #217

I don't think it will ever be finished Withywindle Oct 2021 #109

He was the executive producer and owns the production company. AngryOldDem Oct 2021 #118

The production company was an LLC. gldstwmn Oct 2021 #218

How could this be seen as a mistake? It was an accident, pure and simple... elias7 Oct 2021 #21

How can it be seen as a mistake? former9thward Oct 2021 #70

Baldwin was co-producer. As in "chose not go with union crews" to save money. NullTuples Oct 2021 #106

What I think could have happen? INdemo Oct 2021 #24

Someone suggested that to me last night when we were talking about this. Sh actually niyad Oct 2021 #43

It was my first thought too Tumbulu Oct 2021 #54

Okay, that made my skin crawl. niyad Oct 2021 #56

Honestly that wouldn't surprise me vercetti2021 Oct 2021 #61

Crossed mind more than once too mahina Oct 2021 #64

That's dark and I hope untrue. gldstwmn Oct 2021 #78

OMG! calimary Oct 2021 #116

That scenario is the bases of many a good murder mystery. Farmer-Rick Oct 2021 #125

I Agree. This Is A Tragedy For All Parties Involved. COL Mustard Oct 2021 #25

My spouse is certain he was set up by a Trumper because of SNL performances. apcalc Oct 2021 #33

That was my immediate reaction. YDogg Oct 2021 #41

It sure seems likely to me mahina Oct 2021 #65

K&R. NT ecstatic Oct 2021 #36

Imagine a job where you are handed guns to shoot at people NullTuples Oct 2021 #42

Agree.... No gun should ever be fired in someone's direction. Never. apcalc Oct 2021 #44

Never? Then I'm a fucking criminal. 11 Bravo Oct 2021 #86

Except in self defense... apcalc Oct 2021 #123

Yes, especially since reports say there were problems with the guns already JI7 Oct 2021 #46

You don't have to absolve him of all guilt to feel compassionate towards him. meadowlander Oct 2021 #49

No, corporate insurance now exists to shield from liability and having to increase costs with change NullTuples Oct 2021 #51

I guess what's really bothering me is from his first statement, Baldwin distanced himself NullTuples Oct 2021 #50

Nonsense. The blame can definitely be fixed. Random Boomer Oct 2021 #107

What about the producer(s) who decided to save money and not go w/professionals? NullTuples Oct 2021 #112

Did you even read my statement? Random Boomer Oct 2021 #174

Those are some amazing gynastics. But also, anyone who handles a gun is responsible for it. NullTuples Oct 2021 #178

Problem is, the actor is also the producer & they make the decisions that affect budget. NullTuples Oct 2021 #149

No, the person holding the weapon is ultimately the one responsible. marie999 Oct 2021 #184

I always find it fascinating when people say the one who pulled the trigger is not responsible. NullTuples Oct 2021 #241

There is probably a crisis management team in place and everyone gldstwmn Oct 2021 #219

That explanation is in the LA Times article. gldstwmn Oct 2021 #80

Thank you for your caring and compassionate post. niyad Oct 2021 #45

Yes, horrible for all TFRD Oct 2021 #55

Looks like an inexperience armorer is a factor. No way a live... brush Oct 2021 #57

My heart goes out to him. yardwork Oct 2021 #58

Amen Chicagogrl1 Oct 2021 #63

I'm sorry but... Jetheels Oct 2021 #73

Live ammunition doesn't mean an actual bullet. LisaL Oct 2021 #79

This could be a career killer for him. trof Oct 2021 #82

I just have one question lordsummerisle Oct 2021 #87

Because he is acting in a movie? LisaL Oct 2021 #88

I see, so the film's cinematographer had a part in the film? n/t lordsummerisle Oct 2021 #92

Cinematographer wasn't even supposed to have been in that position during LisaL Oct 2021 #95

Oh, I get it, it's her own fault that she's dead n/t lordsummerisle Oct 2021 #100

You didn't get what I am saying. LisaL Oct 2021 #101

I guess if I were test firing a gun I wouldn't point it at a person first. lordsummerisle Oct 2021 #102

He was told the gun was empty. LisaL Oct 2021 #103

Post removed Post removed Oct 2021 #104

wasn't 'test firing' a gun stopdiggin Oct 2021 #138

You notice that too. hlthe2b Oct 2021 #168

There are inthewind21 Oct 2021 #208

He deserves some of it. Happy Hoosier Oct 2021 #222

As I understand it... Happy Hoosier Oct 2021 #223

Why are we so willing sarisataka Oct 2021 #89

What do you propose be done with him? LisaL Oct 2021 #90

Nothing at this time sarisataka Oct 2021 #91

Armorer put the guns on the cart. LisaL Oct 2021 #94

To me that is a problem sarisataka Oct 2021 #98

you're setting up a LOT of conditions and protocol stopdiggin Oct 2021 #139

I do not know how it is actually done sarisataka Oct 2021 #146

what I kind of thought stopdiggin Oct 2021 #151

I agree sarisataka Oct 2021 #154

go along with that 100% stopdiggin Oct 2021 #155

AD also a cowboy meadowlander Oct 2021 #159

Yet, you immediately assume the ACTOR to be at fault. hlthe2b Oct 2021 #169

If you had bothered to read this thread sarisataka Oct 2021 #175

Uhh, huh. I've read your implied statements as well. hlthe2b Oct 2021 #176

Well you have certainly won sarisataka Oct 2021 #177

Nice that you post an image of a body in a thread discussing a horrendous human tragedy... hlthe2b Oct 2021 #183

Woosh... sarisataka Oct 2021 #187

Nothing complicated about your posting an image of a body in a thread about a horrendous death. hlthe2b Oct 2021 #188

I take life and death extremely seriously sarisataka Oct 2021 #194

And to prove it you post an image of a dead body to show your concern for this tragedy... hlthe2b Oct 2021 #195

Apparently your observational skills failed to note sarisataka Oct 2021 #196

and your empathetic sense appears to be missing. This is a human tragedy--not one for exploitation. hlthe2b Oct 2021 #197

If it's so serious sarisataka Oct 2021 #199

You boiled this tragedy down to a reprehensible joking image of a dead body so if that is civil hlthe2b Oct 2021 #201

My thoughts have been consistent sarisataka Oct 2021 #202

Maybe you should've left it at "I don't know how it Is actually done!" Nt USALiberal Oct 2021 #220

Lol nt sarisataka Oct 2021 #231

And Baldwin should have verified Happy Hoosier Oct 2021 #224

So you think that he should know how movie guns are loaded?? USALiberal Oct 2021 #93

He should know the safety protocols sarisataka Oct 2021 #96

I doubt the producers also tell the stuntman how to do their work. nt USALiberal Oct 2021 #97

Is the producer would ask the stuntmen how the desired effect sarisataka Oct 2021 #99

Maybe have a person trained on guns to handle the guns instead of the actor. Kaleva Oct 2021 #114

Nobody should handle a gun w/o training. Period. NullTuples Oct 2021 #153

Yes n/t Devil Child Oct 2021 #128

Of course! Happy Hoosier Oct 2021 #225

It's creepy to me. Devil Child Oct 2021 #129

What's creepier is people creating their own realities to claim Baldwin is guilty of something other uponit7771 Oct 2021 #171

Nah, I still think people carrying water for a rich dude who killed a woman and injured another dude Devil Child Oct 2021 #179

Donald Trump Jr. has a t-shirt for you to wear. Paladin Oct 2021 #181

"Negligence with firearms kills" Devil Child Oct 2021 #193

Beats me. Why don't you ask Don Jr.? Paladin Oct 2021 #198

No interest Devil Child Oct 2021 #203

I would defend James Woods and Scott Baio over the same thing obamanut2012 Oct 2021 #185

I would condemn James Woods and Scott Baio over the same thing Devil Child Oct 2021 #192

He is probably suffering from PTSD, he canceled gldstwmn Oct 2021 #221

Go back and read it again sarisataka Oct 2021 #232

I used to work in a job that was a great deal of inspecting and certifying complex... BobTheSubgenius Oct 2021 #105

This message was self-deleted by its author xfile-gg08-0000f5d7 Oct 2021 #108

No winners here, Aussie105 Oct 2021 #111

Why? Kev80 Oct 2021 #113

It's just damn sad. AngryOldDem Oct 2021 #117

He's liable as a producer. RandySF Oct 2021 #119

He was the on set producer and aimed a gun at a person. Kablooie Oct 2021 #121

If The Director Told Him To Do It Deep State Witch Oct 2021 #136

A producer or AD can override the director ... Kablooie Oct 2021 #143

He was not the on set producer. That's the line producer. gldstwmn Oct 2021 #227

I know. But he was A producer on the set. Kablooie Oct 2021 #238

The lesson? kentuck Oct 2021 #122

and how many movie scenes stopdiggin Oct 2021 #144

The assistant director seems to be the guy responsible for leaving an unchecked gun around. BlancheSplanchnik Oct 2021 #124

Odd to see this need to circle the wagons around Baldwin Devil Child Oct 2021 #127

Odd to see the assumption that the actor and not the gun professionals to be at fault. hlthe2b Oct 2021 #170

+1, looks like "Baldwin's guilty" FUD going around uponit7771 Oct 2021 #172

Yes, the more information comes out, the more I realize Wingus Dingus Oct 2021 #180

Some of the arguments here leave me speechless (like the poster upstream who maintains this hlthe2b Oct 2021 #182

Mostly it seems a litmus test for whether or not someone likes or hates Alec Baldwin. Wingus Dingus Oct 2021 #189

Yes. And I can honestly say if it were a RW actor-- like James Woods or other-- I'd feel similarly. hlthe2b Oct 2021 #190

I feel the same. Whether or not you like that actor as a person, they're doing their professional Wingus Dingus Oct 2021 #191

I've never been near a real gun, but I know for sure that you NEVER aim at a human being.... LAS14 Oct 2021 #130

I know right inthewind21 Oct 2021 #209

Yes, lots of sympathy for him, but... Joinfortmill Oct 2021 #131

When these movie accidents happen BootinUp Oct 2021 #132

The S**t Has Already Started Deep State Witch Oct 2021 #134

Why was the gun pointed at the cinematographer? nt LAS14 Oct 2021 #137

It wasn't inthewind21 Oct 2021 #210

Oh! Thanks. Do you remember where you saw this? nt LAS14 Oct 2021 #211

In the search warrant, from the director who was shot. gldstwmn Oct 2021 #228

Thanks very much! nt LAS14 Oct 2021 #240

He should be ejected from SAG IbogaProject Oct 2021 #140

What union the armorer wasn't in? LisaL Oct 2021 #142

Not sure but there have been issues all over this year IbogaProject Oct 2021 #163

lol obamanut2012 Oct 2021 #186

Nasty and mean. Pathwalker Oct 2021 #204

Just sad all around. Wingus Dingus Oct 2021 #152

Alec's a living victim bound to this tragedy that took a life, and changed Bluethroughu Oct 2021 #162

Everyone who handles a gun should safety check it. Kaleva Oct 2021 #207

I agree, but in his defense, prop guns and the dummy or hollow bullets Bluethroughu Oct 2021 #212

Baldwin the told the revolver was empty. It'd be easy to see if it was or wasn't Kaleva Oct 2021 #213

You are right assistant director shouldn't even handle the gun. Bluethroughu Oct 2021 #214

I also hope that people outside the movie industry learn from this too. Kaleva Oct 2021 #215

Me too. Bluethroughu Oct 2021 #216

A problem for Alec Baldwin is that it may point back to the executive producer: Alec Baldwin. Iggo Oct 2021 #200

There are 11 producers on this film. gldstwmn Oct 2021 #229

Mm-hmm. Iggo Oct 2021 #235

From KOB4: gldstwmn Oct 2021 #236

People die probably every day due to workplace accidents Steelrolled Oct 2021 #226

Let's say Donald Trump knocked a Diet Coke onto the little red button and started WWIII. meadowlander Oct 2021 #230

They say the guy who accidently killed Brandon Lee never got over it. nt Quixote1818 Oct 2021 #233

Good people are often filled with guilt even if it was total mistake JI7 Oct 2021 #237

200th Rec Hekate Oct 2021 #234

200 moments of kindness mahina Oct 2021 #239