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Straw Man

(6,905 posts)
70. Close, but not quite.
Fri Oct 22, 2021, 04:30 PM
Oct 2021

A dummy round is usually a cartridge containing a bullet, but from which both powder and primer have been removed. In a close-up of the front of the revolver, it needs to loaded with dummy rounds for the sake of realism because the tips of the bullets need to be visible. Dummies are also used when someone needs to be shown loading a gun.

You are correct that these dummies were prepared improperly, with the primers left in, but the force of the primer alone is usually not great enough to propel the bullet out of the barrel. Instead, it may propel the bullet into the barrel, where it can get lodged; that's what happened in this case.

The gun was subsequently loaded with blanks, cartridges that contain primer and powder but no bullet. When the blank was fired, it propelled the stuck bullet out of the barrel, killing Lee.

This should never have happened, and was the result of negligence, both in the creation of the faulty dummies and in the failure to make sure that the gun was clear before loading it with the blanks.

I don't really know what happened in Baldwin's case, but I suppose we will find out. One other point: I'm seeing a lot of references to a "prop gun." To the best of my knowledge, a prop gun is a non-firing replica. That doesn't appear to be the case here. This was a real gun. Also, the notion that blanks are completely safe is a dangerous one that needs to be dispelled. At very close range, they can be deadly; although there is no projectile, there is a tremendous amount of force coming out of the muzzle. That force dissipates quickly over distance, but if it is contained, such as by placing the muzzle against something solid, it can be devastating. This is how the actor Jan-Erik Hexum died; he essentially fractured his own skull by "simulating" suicide with a blank-firing gun.

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How awful for everyone involved. meadowlander Oct 2021 #1
It probably wasn't live ammunition... regnaD kciN Oct 2021 #11
I think it probably was Chuuku Davis Oct 2021 #51
Gun was loaded with a live round. LisaL Oct 2021 #69
Horrific tragedy and will affect Baldwin the rest of his life. hlthe2b Oct 2021 #32
I cannot imagine living with that PatSeg Oct 2021 #55
Brandon Lee died in a similar way. Xolodno Oct 2021 #2
So depressing that they are still cranking out all these gun-nut movies. lagomorph777 Oct 2021 #45
Good grief. SergeStorms Oct 2021 #3
See Brandon Lee's death for just one example how this can happen: Hassin Bin Sober Oct 2021 #4
Also Jon Erik Hexum GPV Oct 2021 #19
his gun had blanks, but he jokingly "shot" himself in the head with it at point blank range eShirl Oct 2021 #23
Blank ammo can be dangerous for several meters away from the muzzle of the gun...nt Wounded Bear Oct 2021 #24
For muzzle flash, sure.... SergeStorms Oct 2021 #40
Blank rounds expel more than just "muzzle flash"... Wounded Bear Oct 2021 #43
In his case, Gruenemann Oct 2021 #66
He is the producer. former9thward Oct 2021 #5
Not really, producers do not check gun status. Nt USALiberal Oct 2021 #38
That is what CEOs say when an employee screws up. former9thward Oct 2021 #60
He's one of a dozen producers eShirl Oct 2021 #41
But he is the producer than fired the gun that killed someone. former9thward Oct 2021 #61
no kidding eShirl Oct 2021 #63
The prop master... SergeStorms Oct 2021 #72
There was film of this. former9thward Oct 2021 #73
And not just a bunch of guilt... regnaD kciN Oct 2021 #12
Why would his career be over? It sounds like a tragic babylonsister Oct 2021 #26
Spielberg was co-producer of '92 movie where helicopter accident killed adult & two child actors.... hlthe2b Oct 2021 #35
It was the Twilight Zone film in 1983 fishwax Oct 2021 #48
Not true! Nt USALiberal Oct 2021 #39
I doubt it. Elessar Zappa Oct 2021 #49
How is it only Alec Baldwin's ultimate legal responsibility for whatever happens on set? Niagara Oct 2021 #52
Not a factual statement whatsoever obamanut2012 Oct 2021 #58
Why do real bullets even fit in a prop gun? mucifer Oct 2021 #6
I know zero about guns, but when I see one in a film or tv show, I always imagine lindysalsagal Oct 2021 #7
Even "firing it at a wall" might not be enough... regnaD kciN Oct 2021 #14
Thanks for that real-world input. lagomorph777 Oct 2021 #47
Alec Alec Alec oh good grief UTUSN Oct 2021 #8
This sounds like the plot dweller Oct 2021 #9
That's going to be interesting. BannonsLiver Oct 2021 #10
Since he's the producer, it's not a "different story"... regnaD kciN Oct 2021 #13
Doubtful WHITT Oct 2021 #17
This message was self-deleted by its author ExTex Oct 2021 #65
Of Course WHITT Oct 2021 #68
Of course, in a fictional murder mystery... regnaD kciN Oct 2021 #15
Totally on special effects people, no actor is responsible for a prop gun put in their hands Shanti Shanti Shanti Oct 2021 #16
Brandon Lee was killed when the "blanks" weren't prepared properly LeftInTX Oct 2021 #18
The dummies were made incorrectly obamanut2012 Oct 2021 #29
Thanks...I don't know enough about guns or bullets to articulate this correctly.. LeftInTX Oct 2021 #31
Close, but not quite. Straw Man Oct 2021 #70
Don't these people in charge of weapons check out the weapon and ammo? marie999 Oct 2021 #20
So why was the gun pointed in the direction of the cinematographer? LisaL Oct 2021 #21
He was either joking around with them or they happened to be in the line of fire while filming. Irish_Dem Oct 2021 #28
Good question newdayneeded Oct 2021 #37
Could've been a head on shot where the actor shoots directly into the camera NightWatcher Oct 2021 #42
Waiting for "the rest of the story" pfitz59 Oct 2021 #22
Exactly so. We don't have enough information at this point. Dial H For Hero Oct 2021 #44
As am I. Nowhere close to enough information, yet. (nt) Paladin Oct 2021 #46
this sounds like a case for perry mason rampartc Oct 2021 #25
It was edhopper Oct 2021 #50
Baldwin is 63, not 68. BlueStater Oct 2021 #27
He was born in 1958 obamanut2012 Oct 2021 #30
Yes. So, 63. hlthe2b Oct 2021 #34
Yes this caught me too. hlthe2b Oct 2021 #33
I blame the NRA for loose regulations of prop guns SYFROYH Oct 2021 #36
Really? Wingus Dingus Oct 2021 #53
Or some of us make jokes to cover for the fact that they oppose all gun regulation it seems... jcgoldie Oct 2021 #54
Uh... what? Music Man Oct 2021 #59
Is that what we do? Completely make stuff up? kcr Oct 2021 #62
.... Niagara Oct 2021 #56
With all the digital audio and visual special effects technologies available Tommymac Oct 2021 #57
After hearing about this incident, Sogo Oct 2021 #64
This message was self-deleted by its author ExTex Oct 2021 #67
Just horrible Catherine Vincent Oct 2021 #71
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