General Discussion

FBaggins

(28,447 posts)

88. You've said that a couple times here... but what's the basis for it?

Mon May 6, 2019, 11:11 AM

May 2019

The two scenarios are quite similar. In both cases, Congress subpoenaed document and the AG refused to provide them.

Yes, in Holder's case, the IG eventually cleared him of wrongdoing. However, the courts did require him to turn over virtually everything that was being withheld. This means that your commentary re: Obama's constitutional expertise was off-base. The GOP did "have a case" (since they eventually won that case).

What is notable is that even when Congress "had a case" to force the production of documents, the AG was not found to be in criminal contempt (both by the court and the IG) because it wasn't an unreasonable position to take. AND it took years before the process was complete and documents were produced.

Drawing the parallel to the current scenario, it means that Congress can eventually get most of the documents it's pushing for, but it won't be soon and threats to the AG are likely toothless.

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BREAKING CNN - House WILL vote to hold Barr in Contempt of Congress! [View all] MoonRiver May 2019 OP

Really??!! Great! One question, though... Shell_Seas May 2019 #1

Stay tuned. But at least they're doing their Constitutional duty. MoonRiver May 2019 #2

Correct malaise May 2019 #4

Yes they are DownriverDem May 2019 #72

Yes, I think Trump and his criminals have finally provoked Pelosi PatrickforO May 2019 #98

Well if anything Barr will go down in history as very few AGs have ever been in contempt titaniumsalute May 2019 #15

Eric Holder was MichMary May 2019 #120

As was Janet Reno titaniumsalute May 2019 #122

Shocking. Both Holder and Reno were Dems. susanna May 2019 #183

I think they turn it over to the Attorney General for prosecution :-) patphil May 2019 #33

Congress has a jail cell in the basement and the authority to use it. lagomorph777 May 2019 #35

It actually was supposed to be Washington's tomb... backscatter712 May 2019 #55

If you want my opinion, they should send the Sergeant at Arms to go get him. backscatter712 May 2019 #50

Sargent of Arms DownriverDem May 2019 #71

I was a Sergeant in the Marines! SCVDem May 2019 #104

I stood Shore Partrol Several Times in the Navy INdemo May 2019 #109

Don't cabinet member have their own security detail. Flaleftist May 2019 #118

Why do you suppose House Republicans never took that tack? tritsofme May 2019 #158

See... PoliticAverse May 2019 #90

Pay Wall... ut oh May 2019 #156

Just disable adblock for washingtonpost.com. But... PoliticAverse May 2019 #157

Nothing. They said last night it would wither away Laura PourMeADrink May 2019 #178

Not until Wednesday! I'm so tired of these stupid delays! Why two more damn days? manor321 May 2019 #3

Trial balloon and keeping it in the news bitterross May 2019 #8

Do you mean Corporate Media telling the public how to feel rainy May 2019 #66

Aka the Department of Jokes. CentralMass May 2019 #69

Yeah, this is dramatic enough. forgotmylogin May 2019 #73

Im tired of caring what the right wing will do. We arent the party of reaction we are Chin music May 2019 #162

For the courts and the history books? NurseJackie May 2019 #11

Yes, it will collapse in court without a "good faith effort" to compromise Maru Kitteh May 2019 #113

They want to be seen as giving the other side as much chance as possible to cooperate, it will yaesu May 2019 #26

Fuck that bullshit. I'm tired of playing nice.... nt Hotler May 2019 #102

Me too but its not about playing nice, its about not giving the fascist Supreme court any more yaesu May 2019 #105

You kid yourself if you think the SC will back us anyway. Especially gorsuch and kavanaugh. Chin music May 2019 #171

+Infinity. I'm so tired of this bullshit ecstatic May 2019 #197

I think they must be looking at accommodations. There is a penalty for being held in contempt. Texin May 2019 #47

What penalty did Eric Holder pay? dumbcat May 2019 #76

They have to vote on it n/t malaise May 2019 #114

Im w you. Big dang groan. Why not today? What are they waiting for? Chin music May 2019 #117

With a sternly worded letter! gordianot May 2019 #5

I haven't seen the letter, just breaking news. MoonRiver May 2019 #7

Being snarky but there will be a vote today. gordianot May 2019 #121

How did holding Eric Holder in Contempt work out? NewJeffCT May 2019 #6

The Justice Department's Inspector General later cleared Holder of any wrongdoing. ehrnst May 2019 #20

It is the Barr/Trump DoJ now NewJeffCT May 2019 #63

Dems still have much more of a case against Barr. They aren't just posturing. (nt) ehrnst May 2019 #70

The Justice Department is a unit of the executive branch not Congress. n/t PoliticAverse May 2019 #95

I was talking about the contempt charge brought by Congress. (nt) ehrnst May 2019 #96

Congress has no power to bring criminal charges, only the DOJ...headed by Barr. tritsofme May 2019 #159

Congress can actually hold trials and jail people for "inherent contempt"... PoliticAverse May 2019 #161

Yes, they can. However no one has used it for nearly 100 years. tritsofme May 2019 #167

This will turn out the same way, despite what others may think. hughee99 May 2019 #57

what do you propose they do then? qazplm135 May 2019 #78

Impeachment means NewJeffCT May 2019 #82

how so qazplm135 May 2019 #91

It wont, but the judicial branch holds impeachment proceedings like grand juries so congress ... uponit7771 May 2019 #100

Any holdups by Exec Branch NewJeffCT May 2019 #110

and if they refuse? qazplm135 May 2019 #112

Strongly worded letters, impeach Barr ... then get all the records and let America know about Red Do uponit7771 May 2019 #115

What do you suggest they do? EffieBlack May 2019 #124

Commence same impeachment ...PROCESS...*started* for Nixon get GJ level access to docs and witness's uponit7771 May 2019 #132

What process do you propose the Dems in an impeachment proceeding use StarfishSaver May 2019 #163

Don't impeach, again ... when party A impeaches party B suffers uponit7771 May 2019 #180

That doesn't answer my question StarfishSaver May 2019 #184

I don't understand the question then, sounds like your asking what can they get during ... uponit7771 May 2019 #186

Thanks StarfishSaver May 2019 #187

Is your position impeachment confers nothing outside of what they can do n!? Question not rhetorical uponit7771 May 2019 #188

My position is StarfishSaver May 2019 #190

Hmmm, I'm thinking time is lost because the court process could take years that's what people ... uponit7771 May 2019 #192

Neither U.S. v. Nixon nor Clinton v. Jones were part of the team in impeachment process StarfishSaver May 2019 #193

Acquittal by Senate is expected, the expectation is to expose Trump before the election. The party.. uponit7771 May 2019 #194

Memories are very short StarfishSaver May 2019 #195

Hmmmm, that's the thing ... an impeachment inquiry most likely wont wrap up in months because uponit7771 May 2019 #198

I don't think he'll string out an impeachment inquiry, especially if it starts soon StarfishSaver May 2019 #199

They can go through impeachment inquiry and not move to impeach or send to senate for ... uponit7771 May 2019 #200

Yes, timing is everything. StarfishSaver May 2019 #201

Your's is the most compelling case I've read for no impeachment now, should be it's on OP uponit7771 May 2019 #202

I appreciate that StarfishSaver May 2019 #203

They will not give up the documents and records just like they won't now. gldstwmn May 2019 #136

We'll get more than what we got and then courts outside of house can hold members in contempt with uponit7771 May 2019 #181

It's the courts ordering fines and jail sentences NewJeffCT May 2019 #129

which have to be effectuated by which branch? qazplm135 May 2019 #130

They will ignore that as well. gldstwmn May 2019 #135

Holder and Reno were not gldstwmn May 2019 #139

fuck yeah yuiyoshida May 2019 #9

and so what? vlyons May 2019 #10

Which consequences do you suggest? NurseJackie May 2019 #12

Arrest and jail him vlyons May 2019 #14

It won't happen to a cabinet member. Any other ideas? NurseJackie May 2019 #16

If you want to give Trump and the GOP a whole lot of ammuntion, sure. ehrnst May 2019 #21

That same perp-walk video will energize Dems. And there are twice as many of us as them. lagomorph777 May 2019 #37

You really think Democrats need energizing so much that they need red meat that might ehrnst May 2019 #40

Actually, yes I do think some of us need energizing. Many are discouraged or voter-suppressed. lagomorph777 May 2019 #43

A perp walk will not undo voter suppression laws. ehrnst May 2019 #52

Not all voter suppression is "hard" suppression - they just make it more difficult to vote. lagomorph777 May 2019 #77

You mean like they were in 2018? But what evidence do you have that your view ehrnst May 2019 #85

There's another intangible here, too. calimary May 2019 #108

+1 We can't let Nervous Nellies in our own ranks discourage us from firm action. lagomorph777 May 2019 #111

I agree with you lagomorph, not a game.... saidsimplesimon May 2019 #128

"Nervous Nellies?" Who are you talking about? (nt) ehrnst May 2019 #140

Anybody who wants to roll over and play dead; anybody who says lack of the vote count is a reason to lagomorph777 May 2019 #143

Can you be specific? Because I have no idea who you're talking about. (nt) ehrnst May 2019 #145

I'm glad to hear you haven't encountered anybody like that. lagomorph777 May 2019 #148

Too bad you can't name anyone like that you've "encountered." ehrnst May 2019 #152

I think most folks here can read. lagomorph777 May 2019 #155

Takes courage to back up your accusations. ehrnst May 2019 #169

I'm not looking to break any DU rules. lagomorph777 May 2019 #173

You're not seeing decisive and serious action? Really? ehrnst May 2019 #141

I must have missed it. Who did we arrest? Who did we hold in contempt? lagomorph777 May 2019 #146

Oh, because no one is in cuffs, Democratic leaders are "nervous nellies?" ehrnst May 2019 #150

When faced with a bully the worst thing you can do is be afraid. gldstwmn May 2019 #138

I don't see fear in our ranks. Nancy Pelosi is a badass. (nt) ehrnst May 2019 #142

Then they should not be afraid of the GOP or what the GOP gldstwmn May 2019 #144

What makes you think that they might be? (nt) ehrnst May 2019 #147

Your post stating the GOP will use impeachment gldstwmn May 2019 #149

Not me. I said that they could use a perp walk against us. ehrnst May 2019 #154

I think a good perp walk is just what the doctor ordered. gldstwmn May 2019 #165

For you perhaps, but I will trust Pelosi on this. (nt) ehrnst May 2019 #168

I hope it all works out. gldstwmn May 2019 #172

Agreed. What we do and how we do it is crucial. charlyvi May 2019 #160

The House has no arrest powers. RandySF May 2019 #56

Yes they do. The Sergeant at Arms heads the Capitol Police. backscatter712 May 2019 #61

How exactly should they go about "going to get him". EffieBlack May 2019 #125

They send one or more uniformed police officers to arrest him. backscatter712 May 2019 #166

It most certainly does. PoliticAverse May 2019 #164

Is there legal authority for that? treestar May 2019 #62

Something extraordinary is going to have to occur. gldstwmn May 2019 #137

Confinement until compliance. Mr.Bill May 2019 #22

He's a member of the cabinet. It won't happen. What else do you suggest? NurseJackie May 2019 #36

Sorry - I couldn't find a special exemption in the Constitution for the President's cronies. lagomorph777 May 2019 #38

Yes, and feed right into the GOP narrative that there is a coup going on. (nt) ehrnst May 2019 #41

The Russiapublicans make up any narrative they want; doesn't matter what we do. lagomorph777 May 2019 #48

What evidence do you have that Democrats need "energizing?" ehrnst May 2019 #53

This musicblind May 2019 #182

"This" what? (nt) ehrnst May 2019 #185

I live in the real world. What you're suggesting is a fantasy. It won't happen. NurseJackie May 2019 #49

Thank you. I'm grateful that those making these decisions are much cooler heads. (nt) ehrnst May 2019 #68

About the only other thing I can think of Mr.Bill May 2019 #81

That's a good start. I'm interested in seeing him disbarred and I'd like to learn more... NurseJackie May 2019 #86

Well, he could be charged with perjury. n/t Mr.Bill May 2019 #87

Vlyons already said "jail time" at140 May 2019 #75

It's a fantasy with long-term real-world costs that exceed the immediate emotional satisfaction. NurseJackie May 2019 #84

So, do you think that they shouldn't have done this? That it was pointless? ehrnst May 2019 #19

and it will be fought all the way to the Supreme court but at least they are doing something, yaesu May 2019 #31

They can also issue fines DeminPennswoods May 2019 #44

i like the idea of fines..LOTS of them.. and watch trump say he will pay.. then wont. samnsara May 2019 #74

AG contempt and obstruction of justice is more kindling on the eventual impeachment fire (n/t) forgotmylogin May 2019 #80

Right. I see this as Congress "building a case" against Trump until he withers and leaves office. CTyankee May 2019 #131

you'e right and limbaugh will be there to help barr wear it as a badge of honor certainot May 2019 #103

Republicans attempted this with AG Holder and nothing came of it inwiththenew May 2019 #13

I think this case is much more solid. Holder was later cleared of wrongdoing. ehrnst May 2019 #24

You've said that a couple times here... but what's the basis for it? FBaggins May 2019 #88

I'm talking about the case that the GOP had against Holder for contempt. (nt) ehrnst May 2019 #89

So was I (nt) FBaggins May 2019 #94

Good. At LEAST make an attempt to uphold the law. nt Honeycombe8 May 2019 #17

Then what? Jail threat to force expedited court intervention. Pepsidog May 2019 #18

Disbarment, impeachment. Trump would LOVE footage of Barr being handcuffed ehrnst May 2019 #27

Right On! Pepsidog May 2019 #119

Contemp order may be first step toward Barr's impeachment. infullview May 2019 #23

They're Not Going To Have Him Arrested Though... global1 May 2019 #25

Has to be personal funds. And it may be grounds for disbarrment. (nt) ehrnst May 2019 #28

Disbarment would have teeth for him treestar May 2019 #64

There is no constitutional requirement for the AG to be a lawyer. Just appointed by POTUS. ehrnst May 2019 #67

and where does it go? samnsara May 2019 #32

The US Government, just like the Manafort and Cohen fines and payments. (nt) ehrnst May 2019 #45

The fine will be paid by his boss. lagomorph777 May 2019 #39

If that can be shown, it will be used in court. (nt) ehrnst May 2019 #42

Barr was brought into stop the Mueller investigation and to help cover up the biggest crime in ... Botany May 2019 #29

sigh well NOW baby sussex is on cnn ( which is fine with me!) samnsara May 2019 #30

bout time. I have held him in contempt for years still_one May 2019 #34

If 220 Democrats support the Contempt citation Ponietz May 2019 #46

Excellent point. (nt) klook May 2019 #54

hot damn! nt Javaman May 2019 #51

They will vote on it on Wednesday DesertRat May 2019 #58

Yep, not a done deal yet. Duppers May 2019 #79

They can hold him in contempt until the cows come home, but he cannot be alllowed to remain at DOJ. Texin May 2019 #59

I think Nader waited this long... nycbos May 2019 #60

Yep. "Exhaustion of remedies" CaptainTruth May 2019 #106

50+ posts and nobody has pointed out that the OP isn't correct? FBaggins May 2019 #65

I corrected the OP. MoonRiver May 2019 #99

It sounds like you're describing inherent contempt as opposed to civil contempt. CaptainTruth May 2019 #107

In order for "The House" to do anything - requires a vote of the full House FBaggins May 2019 #126

Excellent. The Velveteen Ocelot May 2019 #83

Finally LibFarmer May 2019 #92

Inherent contempt or civil contempt? CaptainTruth May 2019 #93

This is bullshit, why not do it right this minute? instead of playing reality TV shitshit with it Snake Plissken May 2019 #97

Because they would like to actually win the issue... rather than just playing games FBaggins May 2019 #101

We either have a democracy or we don't spanone May 2019 #116

Yes, exactly MoonRiver May 2019 #127

What, if anything, can the Senate do about it rocktivity May 2019 #123

So, now Barr is a criminal......Lock him up!!!!! W T F May 2019 #133

Great now what? gldstwmn May 2019 #134

I've los all hope itcfish May 2019 #151

Good, they've done it to at least 2 of our recent AGs. nt MadDAsHell May 2019 #153

The Latest: Justice Department proposes Nadler talks PoliticAverse May 2019 #170

The Trumpers are just stalling. Hope the judiciary committee doesn't fall for it. nt SunSeeker May 2019 #174

yay! johannsyah May 2019 #175

kick Barr's ass on this... BlueJac May 2019 #176

Why is Nadler demanding something that is against Federal law to turn over? Alea May 2019 #177

It's not against federal law. StarfishSaver May 2019 #179

Thank you StarfishSaver for the reply Alea May 2019 #189

Definitely don't let Trump stress cost you grades StarfishSaver May 2019 #191

Great, if jail time and/or a 100k fine is involved. ecstatic May 2019 #196