General Discussion

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)

185. Yes, it is indeed the responsibility of the police to do just that

Wed Apr 18, 2018, 03:31 PM

Apr 2018

It's called "establishing probable cause," without which an arrest is illegal and possibly unconstitutional. One of the first and most important things that police officers learn and are drilled in over and over is how to determine probable cause before making an arrest. Police cannot go around arresting people because some says they want them arrested.

And there was NO no buy no sit rule. That's the entire point. The law requires that the public be put on notice of any conditions for being in the premises. There was no such notice of any no buy no sit rule. Sidling up to a couple of customers and telling them they have to buy something to stay is NOT notice to the public of any condition of occupancy.

I don't want to sound snarky, but if you don't know the law or how it's applied, please don't keep lecturing us on it.

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Black man blocked from entering NJ gym where hes a paid member and even the cops are confused [View all] MrScorpio Apr 2018 OP

What the???? Proud Liberal Dem Apr 2018 #1

Exactly what I was going to say ailsagirl Apr 2018 #35

White people, we are all complicit in this abuse, one way or the other. DemocracyMouse Apr 2018 #229

So True ConnorMarc Apr 2018 #248

The word is faze. Not phase. Two different meanings. Tipperary Apr 2018 #295

I suspect that their customer service folks at corporate Sherman A1 Apr 2018 #2

Maybe they should follow Starbucks' example NewJeffCT Apr 2018 #7

Sue them malaise Apr 2018 #3

Good thing roles arent reversed , the you know who's would burn down the city Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #27

I think there is underground encouragement going on. dixiegrrrrl Apr 2018 #112

"increasingly blatant police murders of black men." bluescribbler Apr 2018 #122

I agree! nt Anon-C Apr 2018 #156

ditto. same AllaN01Bear Apr 2018 #211

Kick dalton99a Apr 2018 #4

Uh-oh...LA Fitness is not going to have a good day MineralMan Apr 2018 #5

And the police RIGHTFULLY questioned the manager's account and apparently WERE NOT bound to arrest hlthe2b Apr 2018 #6

of course the police had a choice barbtries Apr 2018 #16

I finally had to put some posters on ignore they were so adamant the Philly police had no choice hlthe2b Apr 2018 #17

no kidding. fun story barbtries Apr 2018 #21

Wow! Scary story, but interesting... hlthe2b Apr 2018 #24

Not surprising. No jurisdiction over "traffic" incident on private property, shanny Apr 2018 #31

I suppose none of those people have ever heard of PBA cards? vi5 Apr 2018 #89

That's what I don't understand either. procon Apr 2018 #22

This ignores the differences between the two cases ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #28

I never said the police were acting in a racist manner. I said they were derelect in arresting hlthe2b Apr 2018 #29

Lots of strawmanning going on around here EffieBlack Apr 2018 #38

par for the course... hlthe2b Apr 2018 #42

We're gonna need a bigger bale.(nt) ehrnst Apr 2018 #134

Here's the thing... ConnorMarc Apr 2018 #262

This is not entirely correct ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #43

I can give you lists too, but I'll simply let you be content with the police force you deserve hlthe2b Apr 2018 #45

Nice insults, but they are not arguments ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #54

I've made my arguments and am refusing further contact with someone who advocates AGAINST hlthe2b Apr 2018 #61

Now that is really insulting ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #72

Holding accountable means corrective TRAINING and not just for these two. hlthe2b Apr 2018 #82

I'm all for more training for the police, ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #84

Well then we have one area of agreement. I think we should leave it there. hlthe2b Apr 2018 #85

Unless YOU are one of those unprofessional type of police officers to which I refer, no insult hlthe2b Apr 2018 #75

Not sure why this has become such a huge mission of this poster. EffieBlack Apr 2018 #58

yes. I wonder TOO hlthe2b Apr 2018 #62

WAYYY too hard. EffieBlack Apr 2018 #65

I'm curious about it too mcar Apr 2018 #140

I expect you didn't read my response to you in the other thread BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #48

I agree. A business is private property. Honeycombe8 Apr 2018 #239

And what if they pretend as in the Starbucks case that it is a non-discriminatory reason but it Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #244

Well, I'm cursed with a logical mind. Honeycombe8 Apr 2018 #249

I read your post, and you did opine it could be a set up...so it is their fault Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #251

Why didnt they buy one lousy cup of coffee? EffieBlack Apr 2018 #255

Exactly. You don't know all the facts. And neither do I. Honeycombe8 Apr 2018 #258

Its not up to the men to prove they had a right to be there or that racism was a motive for their EffieBlack Apr 2018 #259

I Call BS! ConnorMarc Apr 2018 #263

You are so wrong. They were politely waiting for their friend to order. At my Starbucks people sit Oppaloopa Apr 2018 #273

Well guess what it appears...corporate doesn't agree with you in either the Starbucks case Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #242

Stop insulting me ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #268

I am not insulting you...but we both now the 'tresspass' thing has been used for years to keep Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #282

You are wrong as to the legal side. ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #291

You're ignoring context. Why? Boomer Apr 2018 #283

You are missing my point ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #290

How much of the police response was affected by the fact that the initial 911 call pnwmom Apr 2018 #266

It might have played a role, sure ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #269

Yeah, but like I said, police see crimes committed every day that they decide to let go. pnwmom Apr 2018 #272

On the other hand, you admit they have the discretion, right? ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #289

I know I am purportedly on ignore BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #296

Hah! And that will be easily provable since at least one person videotaped the arrest. n/t pnwmom Apr 2018 #302

The whole episode was completely jacked up. BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #303

Yes, and they didn't exercise it well. Thanks for the link! pnwmom Apr 2018 #301

which is de facto Jim Crow radius777 Apr 2018 #308

Perhaps it should be changed ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #311

Correct !! and what if the two men owned the that store ?! The police going on the managers uponit7771 Apr 2018 #52

The police did act stupidly, the two men in Philly could've owned the store and arresting them uponit7771 Apr 2018 #51

Well, if the men had owned the store, ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #60

This is not the case with multi owned franchises, store managers rarely meet the owners ... uponit7771 Apr 2018 #66

But the cops didn't just do what the manager said! ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #70

And the cops refused to talk to any witnesses BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #76

Yep, all they had to do is look around.The PPD had the opportunity to do so and decided not to uponit7771 Apr 2018 #78

Because that didn't matter, really. Honeycombe8 Apr 2018 #240

It DID matter BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #274

I disagree. Honeycombe8 Apr 2018 #307

Where do I start? BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #312

Long post. But suffice to say, we agree to disagree. Honeycombe8 Apr 2018 #313

"There is real racism out there. I don't see it here." How do you define "real racism?" EffieBlack Apr 2018 #316

Yes we can agree to disagree but I will still comment BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #317

"The employee isn't a lawyer." Exactly. Which is why police don't arrest people just on her say so EffieBlack Apr 2018 #315

Store owners have no legal right to make customers leave unless they're violating a lawful condition EffieBlack Apr 2018 #314

Yes, asking them to leave not assessing the situation via witness's. Again, the police should uponit7771 Apr 2018 #77

Then all of the white customers who said liberalhistorian Apr 2018 #87

But all of that reflects on the manager's actions, not those of the police. ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #101

I am exhausted with your thin blue lining on threads obamanut2012 Apr 2018 #108

I already responded to this on your other post, ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #118

True Thank you . Why is this so hard for people to comprehend? Oppaloopa Apr 2018 #275

The cops had the discretion of whether or not to arrest liberalhistorian Apr 2018 #111

I have explained this already ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #119

"continue to trespass'?? panader0 Apr 2018 #208

Actually, I have never done what happened here ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #270

Wrong, the LA Fitness men were trespassing as much as the SBX men obamanut2012 Apr 2018 #103

Legally this might not be true, if they were members. ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #116

if they did not call cops on WHITE trespassers, it IS racism. pansypoo53219 Apr 2018 #198

I agree wholeheartedly ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #201

This! mcar Apr 2018 #137

id be voting with my feet and wallet. AllaN01Bear Apr 2018 #213

Good the police did the right thing TNLib Apr 2018 #8

amen this could have been worse dembotoz Apr 2018 #33

White people seem to be shocked that example after example of this ismnotwasm Apr 2018 #9

i was in LA during the Rodney King days barbtries Apr 2018 #20

So sick of being asked for proof of racism HipChick Apr 2018 #23

IKR? EffieBlack Apr 2018 #39

Exactly.. HipChick Apr 2018 #219

Yeah. Me as well. irisblue Apr 2018 #41

Yeah, I've gotten that. 'I didn't see it when I was growing up. ' Really? You were raised in a box? byronius Apr 2018 #47

They don't see it because it doesn't affect THEM! ConnorMarc Apr 2018 #264

I like you EffieBlack Apr 2018 #265

Right back atcha! ConnorMarc Apr 2018 #306

+1... SidDithers Apr 2018 #67

+1, some people want to ignore even the base amount of racism that occurs uponit7771 Apr 2018 #80

Ditto, same goes for liberalhistorian Apr 2018 #92

Which white people? Egnever Apr 2018 #73

Of course that's what your focus is on. LanternWaste Apr 2018 #88

it's literaly what the post was about Egnever Apr 2018 #90

I think that poster completely missed the point lol. Tipperary Apr 2018 #297

Same way I'm shocked by examples of misogyny since I benefit from the patriarchy IronLionZion Apr 2018 #195

that racist bastard soiling the people's house has allowed all the scum to crawl out from niyad Apr 2018 #10

Exactly what hitler did. I just watched a series on him. Racism was his first point of attack. notdarkyet Apr 2018 #12

yep can not have a master race with out a non master race dembotoz Apr 2018 #30

And DUers defend them EffieBlack Apr 2018 #64

I mentioned this "political climate" to someone today, and how Ilsa Apr 2018 #231

True Oppaloopa Apr 2018 #276

Add another thing to the LONG & GROWING list of things you CANNOT do while black .... LenaBaby61 Apr 2018 #11

Two stars rating on Yelp gyroscope Apr 2018 #13

They suck around where I am, and liberalhistorian Apr 2018 #97

Can't describe how mad this makes me rurallib Apr 2018 #14

Un-f'ing-believable. BobTheSubgenius Apr 2018 #15

Again, an example of how cops aren't required to arrest people just because a manager calls them. EffieBlack Apr 2018 #18

Yep. Where's the outrage? Iggo Apr 2018 #37

different situation though Egnever Apr 2018 #50

The issue is the cops assessing the situation at Starbucks, they failed to IMHO and allowed the uponit7771 Apr 2018 #59

How did they fail? Egnever Apr 2018 #69

Not taking in the account of the people that were there and there are plenty of white uponit7771 Apr 2018 #74

it doesn't matter if the policy is set in stone Egnever Apr 2018 #79

The cops shouldn't ask someone to leave based off of obviously racist reasons either and if they uponit7771 Apr 2018 #81

the cops didnt ask someone to leave Egnever Apr 2018 #83

The managers decision was based off of race, we both know this .... uponit7771 Apr 2018 #93

The cops are supposedly TRAINED BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #100

The "I was just following orders" defense, redux!! Mad_Mongol Apr 2018 #230

Meanwhile, innocent black men keep getting locked up and it is EffieBlack Apr 2018 #234

But Effie didn't you hear 'all they had to do was buy a cup of coffee' (sarcasm). Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #246

And then guess how many jellybeans in the jar - or was it how many bubbles in a bar of soap? EffieBlack Apr 2018 #252

Exactly, prove they have earned the 'privilege' of sitting in Starbucks. Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #286

I'd ignore the dramatic lack of interviewing relevant witnesses also LanternWaste Apr 2018 #91

Right !! I don't see how this is not obvious. They could've asked why are you wanting these uponit7771 Apr 2018 #99

Can you show me in the trespassing laws for PA Lee-Lee Apr 2018 #136

Don't we have some amendments where people can't be arrested etc based off race? uponit7771 Apr 2018 #141

Here is how it works Lee-Lee Apr 2018 #152

Lee, your first statement is overtly false ... the decision to kick them out was based off race and uponit7771 Apr 2018 #161

The cops did not need to assess that the request was racially motivated EffieBlack Apr 2018 #166

Thx for this info, sounds like since there was no posting of the rules then there was no rules that uponit7771 Apr 2018 #169

Exactly EffieBlack Apr 2018 #193

You have to stand up to racism...and it shed light on this dirty practice. Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #245

Here you go EffieBlack Apr 2018 #159

There it is then uponit7771 Apr 2018 #167

You say... tonedevil Apr 2018 #95

i know exactly the difference Egnever Apr 2018 #98

Please ask these people to leave because they're black is not OK nor is any other indication uponit7771 Apr 2018 #106

they were asked to leave because they were not paying cutsomers Egnever Apr 2018 #109

That's an arrestable offense now? Seriously? ehrnst Apr 2018 #110

Where do you live where trespassing is not an arrest able offense? Egnever Apr 2018 #115

I think that "trespassing" isn't really applicable here ehrnst Apr 2018 #117

what you believe is irrelevant Egnever Apr 2018 #121

Actually, your knowlege of law seems to lack relevant areas. ehrnst Apr 2018 #128

Trespassing is absolutely applicable Lee-Lee Apr 2018 #139

Could you post a link to the statute? ehrnst Apr 2018 #150

Here you go Lee-Lee Apr 2018 #171

So, you are saying that the manager was wrong to ask them to leave ehrnst Apr 2018 #180

Yes, essentially Lee-Lee Apr 2018 #225

Thank you! Egnever Apr 2018 #202

Under Pennsylvania law, they had every right to be there unless the public was put on notice EffieBlack Apr 2018 #120

Here you go again with those "facts" and "knowledge." ehrnst Apr 2018 #125

Well I am not a lawyer and I certainly don't know Pennsylvania law. Egnever Apr 2018 #127

But that doesn't stop you from splaining the law to everybody, does it? ehrnst Apr 2018 #130

nope Egnever Apr 2018 #132

It helps to have an understanding of something when you lecture others about it. ehrnst Apr 2018 #135

heres someone eelse who also knows it Egnever Apr 2018 #142

Not seeing the word "trespass" in there. ehrnst Apr 2018 #148

Trespass occurs when you are asked to leave and refuse to do so Egnever Apr 2018 #151

Legal definitions are specific. ehrnst Apr 2018 #157

here since you seem to be confused Egnever Apr 2018 #163

This law is inapplicable EffieBlack Apr 2018 #175

That would have to be determined in a court Egnever Apr 2018 #187

Good Lord - please just stop EffieBlack Apr 2018 #190

explain it to me Egnever Apr 2018 #197

I think you seem to be confused a bit ehrnst Apr 2018 #183

No. That's not true EffieBlack Apr 2018 #170

OK but it is not the job of the police to determine if those conditions are met Egnever Apr 2018 #181

Yes, it is indeed the responsibility of the police to do just that EffieBlack Apr 2018 #185

Like the folks at the lunch counter in Greensboro during the Civil Rights movement? ehrnst Apr 2018 #192

not if due to race/gender/orientation radius777 Apr 2018 #309

I don't care what some Virginia-based attorney says about federal law EffieBlack Apr 2018 #179

except Egnever Apr 2018 #138

So when does it become "trespass" and an arrestable offense? ehrnst Apr 2018 #147

They weren't charged under federal law EffieBlack Apr 2018 #182

hmmmmm, good point ... if the reasons aren't posted then how in the hell are they supposed to know!? uponit7771 Apr 2018 #145

except they were posted Egnever Apr 2018 #153

That link nor quote claim the rules were posted for all to see. uponit7771 Apr 2018 #154

Where does it say it was posted? ehrnst Apr 2018 #162

+1, I think this ends this debate on whether the police took the right steps. I ASSumed the rules uponit7771 Apr 2018 #174

The rules don't have to be posted Egnever Apr 2018 #204

Posting of the rules is proof that there ARE such rules EffieBlack Apr 2018 #207

doesn't have to be posted Egnever Apr 2018 #191

If you insist on arguing the law with a lawyer and law professor who taught Con Law, Crim Pro and EffieBlack Apr 2018 #206

I want to understand the law professor Egnever Apr 2018 #212

Purchasing is NOT a store wide policy, nor was it the policy of that particular stor EffieBlack Apr 2018 #215

Sorry I just don't agree Egnever Apr 2018 #217

It's not a matter of whether you agree or not. It's just a fact. EffieBlack Apr 2018 #218

To your point it, looks like Starbucks doesn't have policy towards bathroom (link inside) uponit7771 Apr 2018 #222

Still lots of disagreement here Egnever Apr 2018 #235

Whether you accept it or not, that is the law EffieBlack Apr 2018 #250

The video in your post BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #279

Yet people are still telling me, right on this "Democratic" board, that it's our imagination EffieBlack Apr 2018 #280

Exactly BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #281

It wasn't store policy because Starbucks hasn't given one (per Starbucks) link inside uponit7771 Apr 2018 #220

They were asked to leave because of their skin color we both know that and the police could've uponit7771 Apr 2018 #123

Their decision was not based on race Egnever Apr 2018 #155

The managers decision WAS based on race and that was assessable by relevant witness's uponit7771 Apr 2018 #164

but has no bearing on their removal at that point in time Egnever Apr 2018 #168

Much like the people who sat in at the segregated lunch counters in Greensboro ehrnst Apr 2018 #186

now you're just silly Egnever Apr 2018 #188

Hit home, didn't I? ehrnst Apr 2018 #196

Whose decision? ehrnst Apr 2018 #165

It doesn't matter what the decision was based on EffieBlack Apr 2018 #209

"Clearly racists of her but matters not to the cops." BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #107

it can't Egnever Apr 2018 #114

So why were the "trespassers" released, without being charged? ehrnst Apr 2018 #124

who was going to press the charges? Egnever Apr 2018 #129

Didn't you declare that they were "trespassing" under the "legal definition?" ehrnst Apr 2018 #143

you are nothing but questions with never an answer Egnever Apr 2018 #149

Now you're trashing the Starbuck's CEO as being only concerned with "the bottom line" ehrnst Apr 2018 #172

The manager who called seeing she had good reasons to press them right? tia uponit7771 Apr 2018 #144

No one pressed any charges BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #194

They tried to get them to leave for 10 minutes, Egnever Apr 2018 #200

Why was it their job to "get them to leave" BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #203

argh this is a circular argument Egnever Apr 2018 #205

"argh this is a circular argument" BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #210

Why should they leave...as other customers pointed out they had done nothing wrong...why do Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #237

Because they were non paying customers Egnever Apr 2018 #241

People sit in Starbucks for hours without buying anything. This was about racism...and Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #253

absolutely on the part of the employee Egnever Apr 2018 #261

"The employee was being racist full stop. That has nothing to do with the cops or their actions." BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #277

so white folks use the bathroom which happened during the incident without buy...but these guys who Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #285

When the other motivations are OBVIOUS but not stated then what should the police do. Thx in advance uponit7771 Apr 2018 #133

Here is what the deal is and what you do BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #160

That argument was made in the South during the Jim Crow days...and it is used Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #236

You did not negate a thing the person you are responding to wrote. NCTraveler Apr 2018 #214

+1, the cops still have to assess a situation not just take someones word for it uponit7771 Apr 2018 #56

Dude circumstances Lee-Lee Apr 2018 #126

There were no rules posted therefore the cops had no reason to remove the two black men. uponit7771 Apr 2018 #177

The "You're a Special Kind of Stupid Award" goes to LA Fitness and its management. n/t sarge43 Apr 2018 #19

I imagine there are multiple lawyers willing to take his case. Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Apr 2018 #25

I hope these two GallopingGhost Apr 2018 #26

well... sagetea Apr 2018 #32

Give them a taste of non-violent hell. saidsimplesimon Apr 2018 #34

Can I say I love that the cops allowed him to continue filming. Egnever Apr 2018 #36

As Gregg Popovich so famously stated Ferrets are Cool Apr 2018 #40

Every Day. BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #44

Sue the motherfuckers. malthaussen Apr 2018 #46

I love the comment by the officer in your last sentence. Good for him. And you're right... George II Apr 2018 #49

"Secaucus is right across the river from NYC" BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #86

Are LA Fitness gyms franchises, or are they all owned by the parent company? Brother Buzz Apr 2018 #53

L.A. Fitness fires 3 workers after black men get kicked out of N.J. gym KY_EnviroGuy Apr 2018 #55

A perfect response by the company. MineralMan Apr 2018 #57

"A paid member of L.A. Fitness for eight years" dalton99a Apr 2018 #227

Is this crap becoming more prevalent because of Trump, being caught on video, or a combination argyl Apr 2018 #63

I'm sure he gave racist tendencies voice in the conscience of some Americans uponit7771 Apr 2018 #68

"I do wish I'd had the chance to go to school with and have African American friends as a child." EffieBlack Apr 2018 #71

Thank you. I always enjoy and learn something from your posts. argyl Apr 2018 #105

Thank you! EffieBlack Apr 2018 #113

What in the entire ****? AllyCat Apr 2018 #94

Cell phones are great. Blue_true Apr 2018 #96

This country is so damn full of hatters and religious freaks. n/t RKP5637 Apr 2018 #102

Misleading headline: " ... and even the cops are confused" JustABozoOnThisBus Apr 2018 #104

I interpreted "confused" meaning BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #176

LA Fitness is very, very good about disciplining employees and patrons obamanut2012 Apr 2018 #131

They have, looks like the two people who badgered the guy were fired uponit7771 Apr 2018 #146

This chain needs a good boycotting and picketing event onetexan Apr 2018 #158

Seems like a serious overreaction TCJ70 Apr 2018 #173

your response is a bit naive onetexan Apr 2018 #189

What sort of measures would you like to see? TCJ70 Apr 2018 #199

"...will not tolerate it in any shape or form"? Or else what? Steven Maurer Apr 2018 #228

They fired the two people badgering the member uponit7771 Apr 2018 #178

yes but alot more action needs to be taken to ensure this crap doesn't happen any more onetexan Apr 2018 #184

Please describe additional actions required Blue_Adept Apr 2018 #232

three fired Demovictory9 Apr 2018 #216

Sweet Justice! swishyfeet Apr 2018 #233

K & R for exposure. SunSeeker Apr 2018 #221

Sorry I helped hijack your thread - the Starbucks barfight tumbled out of EffieBlack Apr 2018 #223

I don't think the folks shocked over Starbucks Blue_Tires Apr 2018 #224

A coworker in a different department enlightened several of us in my group last week. MissB Apr 2018 #271

At least the cops were smarter in this case lame54 Apr 2018 #226

So, let me get this straight. If you are a black man, you raven mad Apr 2018 #238

+1000 Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #247

And you don't even have to be a "man" BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #284

I cannot understand. Really, I can't. raven mad Apr 2018 #287

The "Other" BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #288

Then, I am very grateful to those who raised me. raven mad Apr 2018 #300

When even the cops think you're overeacting to some Abu Pepe Apr 2018 #243

This! EffieBlack Apr 2018 #256

Sue these assholes until it hurts. onecaliberal Apr 2018 #254

Damn it, this has got to stop! Nitram Apr 2018 #257

According to quite a few people in DU, theres nothing to stop because it doesnt exist EffieBlack Apr 2018 #260

Nope, feel worse. Liberals who haven't noticed the racism all around (and even within) them are not Nitram Apr 2018 #298

Cancelling my membership first thing in the morning, after I get all the facts. ecstatic Apr 2018 #267

Coming into this late... mark67 Apr 2018 #278

self-delete pnwmom Apr 2018 #304

My YMCA is diverse and welcoming. klook Apr 2018 #292

At one time they were NOT BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #293

I cannot understand the problem with his membership, but filming or photography is prohibited. Tipperary Apr 2018 #294

The filming took place because an egregious act was was happening ChubbyStar Apr 2018 #305

They canceled his membership??!! CrispyQ Apr 2018 #299

Aside from all this friggin racism, is anyone else annoyed that these dumbassess tulipsandroses Apr 2018 #310