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[Chasstev365]

This message was self-deleted by its author (Chasstev365) on Mon Jul 25, 2016, 12:23 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[uponit7771]

1. I'm more sickened about the AstroTurf like DWS hate and tRumps TANGIBLE ties to Putin and his

... praise of him and the obscene level of focus on the non issue of 2 emails out of 20,000.

[tallahasseedem]

12. +1

Spot on!

[kstewart33]

45. Bingo. nt

[GoCubsGo]

83. Yup. n/t

[liberal N proud]

2. Not as sickened as we are by the BS supporters causing all the riots in convention hall

https://twitter.com/DaveMontero/status/757577543033753600

and in the streets.




Until that clears up, don't come running here complaining about DWS.

[LongtimeAZDem]

24. ^^^^^ (nt)

[AgadorSparticus]

53. Holy shit!

[onecaliberal]

55. Riot?!? So now peaceful protest is called rioting? Wow, just fucking wow

a violent disturbance of the peace by a crowd.
"riots broke out in the capital"
synonyms: uproar, commotion, upheaval, disturbance, furor, tumult, melee, scuffle, fracas, fray, brawl, free-for-all; More

take part in a violent public disturbance.
"students rioted in Paris"
synonyms: rampage, go on the rampage, run riot, fight in the streets, run wild, run amok, go berserk; informal raise hell
"the miners rioted"

[liberal N proud]

65. This is peacful?

https://twitter.com/DaveMontero/status/757577543033753600

[B Calm]

70. Given the emails that we've seen and the conduct over the course of the campaign, there

is a lot of justifiable upset about the ways things were handled at the DNC. Bernie is encouraging his supporters to be respectful, but no one can be sure how they'll respond.

[zenabby]

71. so lock her up?

I don't believe you are going to vote for HRC

[B Calm]

72. I wasn't chanting lock her up. I just tried to explain their anger.

As far as your belief that I won't vote for her, that is way over the top! Take some time off and cool down!

[whathehell]

85. This still sucks and I'm on record here as Pro-Bernie AND anti- DWS..

That said, some of these Hillary Haters are nothing more than Boys with Mommy issues.

Chanting the Trump crowd's message? Guess they're the idiots who are going to vote for Trump -- assholes.

[B Calm]

89. Yea it sucks! This could have all been avoided if the DNC would have

stayed neutral.

[whathehell]

91. Still not an excuse for the "lock her up" shit..

[B Calm]

95. No it's not.

[whathehell]

97. Solid..

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

99. Yeah, it's called fairness

What a concept.

[Squinch]

82. Please post the texts of any emails that you have seen that show that the DNC

acted in a way that was biased.

You haven't SEEN any of them, because there aren't any. There are two emails between two low level assholes shooting the shit after Sanders lost the election. You have been played and used as a tool for the Trump campaign.

[lastone]

86. what did you see that was not peaceful?

chanting lock her up while putting ones hands together as if you have handcuffs is somehow not peaceful to you?

I don't get that...

[liberal N proud]

100. Disruptive is not peacful!

[joeybee12]

98. The goons are rioting and have rioted before...

Stop justifying goons FFS

[LisaM]

90. Thank you.

I'm really tired of this. This is supposed to be a celebration, and on the heels of the GOP trainwreck, we were poised for a hell of a party. But no!

[mwooldri]

103. Perhaps if the DNC was impartial...

... the protests wouldn't be like this. There are a lot of people who think that the DNC as an organisation was more of an extension of Hillary's campaign. I don't want to re-hash the primaries but we know of the controversies of the debate schedule, access to DNC voter registration data, etc.

Having said that, would there still be unhappy people? Yes. There were plenty of unhappy people when Hillary lost out to Barack Obama. They were branded PUMAs. This time around the PUMA label is being used but because so many non-Democrats have been brought aboard the phrase "Bernie or Bust" is being used - especially since aside from Hillary there isn't a viable alternative to beating the Repukes.

[liberal N proud]

108. Honestly after watching BSers and dealing with them here, I don't believe that.

There are too many who thought that Bernie Sanders was going to waltz into the Democratic Party and suddenly become the golden ticket.

[Doodley]

3. Is there any actual evidence that anything DWS personally did influenced the outcome?

[merrily]

10. That is not the correct standard.

[kcr]

15. Really?

So, it's not actions and outcome that count? Well, that explains a lot. Honesty points.

[uponit7771]

18. Proof is the correct standard by objective people

[CrowCityDem]

22. It's the standard if you're going to accuse people of things. Unless you agree with Trump.

[merrily]

26. No matter who you agree with, the correct standard here is were they biased, not

whether they succeeded in getting the result they wanted.

Also, this is message board, not a court of law, and my post contained no accusation, anyway.

[CrowCityDem]

44. Bias is meaningless if confined to private conversations. You can hate somone & be professional.

[LongtimeAZDem]

56. +1 (nt)

[Doodley]

30. This is the time to save any hate or anger for Donald Trump.

If we aren't careful, some Bernie supporters might still be complaining about DWS and HRC even after Trump wins.

[merrily]

38. If you see hate or anger in "That is not the correct standard," you may want to think about that.

[Doodley]

43. I apologize if I gave that impression. I was not referring to you in particular, but those who are

protesting and giving the impression that the Clinton campaign is not united.

[merrily]

49. Thanks. I accept. The issue is whether the left is united, not whether the campaign is united.

The left is not united. Everyone who watches TV or reads a paper or a website knows that. However, neither is the right and everyone knows that, too. Some of the left will not vote for Hillary. Some of the right will vote for Hillary.

As I have posted here any number of times, it comes down to numbers of votes. We can argue all we want, silence anyone and anything we want, but it is about the numbers of votes and how to get them.

[sheshe2]

51. Is it acceptable to you...

to see the entire DNC being compared to the GOP and the entire DNC being called corrupt. Is that broad brush acceptable to you?

Me, I call these types of OPs that condemn an entire group of Democrats, Dem. bashing.

[merrily]

58. Exactly how does interrogating me about what is acceptable to me relate to "That is

not the correct standard," which is what you are supposedly replying to?

In fact, how does it relate to any substantive issue?

[eastwestdem]

111. NO.

[RonniePudding]

4. Trashing

And another for my iggy.

[we can do it]

5. Sick and tired of hearing about this.

[Doodley]

33. It's the biggest non-story since Hillary Clinton's emails.

[unblock]

6. not remotely in the same league as nixon

not making excuses for what dws did, never been a fan.

but nixon and his gang committed obvious felonies, abused the governmental powers, covered it up, lied to congress and investigators, etc.

not remotely in the same league as the head of a non-profit non-governmental institution violating internal rules.

a breach of ethics? sure.

but to compare this to nixon is to severely underestimate the criminality and evil that was the nixon administration.

[CrowCityDem]

7. Sickened so many recite that lie without a shred of evidence. The DNC DID NOTHING to stop Bernie.

[DURHAM D]

13. In fact, DWS and DNC helped the Independent run

as a Democrat. Hope they never make that mistake again.

[JCanete]

20. yeah, cuz you and the DNC elite should be the ones determining who does and does not belong in

OUR party. Offensive as hell dude.

[DURHAM D]

23. Facts are facts.

He was and still is an Independent. Why haven't you started your own party?

[JCanete]

39. Parties survive or die by having money. A lot of money. You apparently, are okay with that

money coopting the democratic party's positions and message, perhaps because you are in favor of corporatist positions yourself, but Sander's positions aren't far afield of what the Democratic Party used to stand for. We have every right as part of the democratic party to help to define what our party should look like. I assure you the DNC leadership didn't simply invite him in out of the kindness of their hearts; they just didn't want to look like they were brokering the convention, even while for the most part, they were. Why? Because they have an interest in continuing to let us believe that the party operates on democratic principles.

Actually, in fairness, your proposal isn't that unreasonable. At least if the party had barred Bernie, it would have sent a more honest message than it wanted to about how things are done.

[merrily]

50. Why haven't you, since you disagree with what the party did with Bernie?

As an indie, Bernie has campaigned for Democrats and only Democrats. As a Democrat, he is campaigning for Hillary.

Stop fighting primary battles.

[liberal N proud]

27. That is how political parties work

The Party committee makes those decisions.

[bigtree]

8. sick that snarky emails are more important to people

...than a foreign government with deep financial ties directly to the Trump campaign are working to disrupt our presidential election.

[merrily]

9. I've read a lot of sickening things on this board this year.

Perhaps the one I found the most horrifying was a reply to my post about election fraud that pointed out that the goal was winning, not merely participation.

No, scratch that. The most sickening to me were the anti-Semitic posts and the posts seeking to disqualify Bernie because of his alleged atheism or "at best, pantheisim." Or was it the posts about his enabling pedophiles?

Good grief. I can't even choose the worst!

[zappaman]

28. What anti-Semitic posts?

Link or slink.

[merrily]

35. At least one poster got banned for an anti-Semitic post and at least one poster apologized for them.

I am not linking because posts have been hidden for linking, even if the posts were on another board, but most of us will know exactly what I am talking about. Possibly, you even know about the hides for linking.

[Loki]

61. I think we know who was screaming about "anti-Semitic" posts

and it now lovingly posts at the site that shall not be named by decent people. I refuse to give them any traffic for their hate.

[kcr]

76. Yep. It's interesting because

I went over there and took a look around and right off the bat saw a terrible anti-semtic post that would be right at home on storm front, with nary a peep of objection. And yet outrage over some mythical anti-semitic post from months ago persists.

[Doodley]

36. Okay, but that is old news. Time to move on, because Donald Trump is the issue right now.

[merrily]

41. Please stop spamming me. Thanks.

Also, I am not your minor child.

[JudyM]

73. Your single minded desire to shut down a valid discussion is noted.

[melman]

11. They don't care

Everything's good as long as it's their team.

[uponit7771]

19. No we don't care about bullshit astroturf winger memes, we agree

[Blue Idaho]

14. The one that sickened me the most

Was the one that said that in today's latest polling release Trump is now favored to win the election this November.

[treestar]

16. What did she do wrong?

She's been the scapegoat for months now, because Bernie could not win. Someone other than Bernie has to be blamed and DWS was so powerful apparently she could stop him.

[JudyM]

81. .

[Karen_J]

17. not surprised

I don't agree with what was done, or think it was right, but I can't say that I'm surprised. Party insiders could reasonably complain that Bernie was an independent / socialist for years, as long as it suited his purposes, and then switched to Democrat when he decided that it would improve his chances for success. He wanted to receive the same rights, privileges, and respect that Hillary received as someone who has been a loyal Democrat for decades, and he didn't get it. Maybe things would have gone better if he had declared himself to be a Democrat four years earlier.

I say this as a person who voted for Bernie, and someone who is not in any way a fan of DWS or her actions.

[onecaliberal]

59. That argument MIGHT hold water were it not for the fact that he caucused

with them from day one, he voted with them from day one, having a better record on women's right, equal rights, the environment, veterans issues than many of the supposed registered D''s. This is sickening, it should sicken everyone. This is a REALLY GOOD demonstration of what the rank and file thinks of those who fight for the working people in this country. It's okay to cheat as long as it benefits the candidate you like. They don't even give a fuck what that looks like. All they have are shiny objects to throw, they CAN'T even comment on the actual situation.

[Sunlei]

21. I'l go with what Clinton, Sanders and Obama said about DWS. They're not 'sickened' and neither am I.

A couple emails is not 'actively worked'. Enjoy the convention, it is very well organized and many Great Americans, many Presidents will speak.

[Loki Liesmith]

25. So you are sickened...

Save your emotional responses until when we can afford them.

There are two things to do right now:

1) collect data
2) use data to win

Everything else wastes your cognitive resources.

[TheBlackAdder]

29. The psychological dynamics of politics mirrors religion. Dem or Rep, the same forces apply.

.


Regardless of party affiliation, the same psychological dynamics apply.


Some will find any reasoning to justify their positions, even if they are irrational.


.

[TreasonousBastard]

31. What about thinking what she did was wrong but still just...

getting over it and moving along?

We can't overturn the primaries or redo them. And we have no evidence of tampering with the primaries.

What we do have is candidate with a few flaws, but who has a record of decades of public service that is being trashed. She is running against a notorious cheat, liar, and bankrupt who doesn't pay his bills and had befriended criminals and the Russian oligarchy.

Are we abandoning Hillary and the nation for a carnival barker who owes maybe a billion to the Russians?

[rjsquirrel]

32. I'm sickened by something else eom

[NCTraveler]

34. Democrats fighting for Democrats.

For those taking issue with it, get over it.

The DNC gave Sanders a platform he has never had and helped him.

I doubt one person taking issue with this has taken issue with West and his deception and lack of ethics.

[Dem2]

37. Sorry

Wrong messenger for this. This is what happens, nobody cares what you say

[KittyWampus]

40. The Nixonian approach is BREAKING INTO THE DNC DATABASE. It's what Watergate

was about.

And thanks to Giordano for pointing that out.

[merrily]

42. Two wrongs don't make a right.

[andym]

87. Watergate was the actual illegal act pinned on him.It was the dirty tricks that really defined Nixon

He had a team of dirty tricksters disrupt the democratic primaries, to ensure that the strongest candidates would not oppose him. Donald Segretti forged letters from front runner Edmund Muskie that helped cost him the nomination. One was written to a New Hampshire newspaper stating he disliked people of Canadian descent, which brought a huge amount of negative publicity 2 weeks before the nh primary. Others made slanderous accusations against other democrats such as Scoop Jackson and Humphrey. The Nixonian approach was creating questions and bad publicity about opponents.

[pnwmom]

46. She didn't write the anti-atheist email. Are you objecting to the horrible email

that said: "LOL"?

No? Then which of the emails indicates something wrong that they did, either than being annoyed?

[Arkansas Granny]

47. What exactly did DWS do that had any effect on the primary election results?

What action did she personally take that led to Bernie not getting the nomination? All I've heard is that emails were exchanged and there are charges of favoritism, but no mention of what specific acts were done by DWS or the Democratic party that changed the outcome of the election.

[Paladin]

48. I think DWS did plenty of wrong things, and she should have stepped down long ago.

But I STILL think Sanders supporters should move on and get over it, immediately. Or are you bearing such a grudge against the Democratic establishment that you're willing to help install a fascist lunatic in the White House? Because that's how I view your disruptions at this point: providing aid and comfort to the enemy.

[DinahMoeHum]

52. DWS should have fallen on her sword after the 2014 elections

IMO, she did a piss-poor job then and there and for that alone she should have left so that she could better serve her constituency.

I do not hang around with losers like her. Period.

[Maven]

54. Putin thanks you!

[onecaliberal]

63. Corporate American, big banks, insurance, pharma, and oil

Thanks you very phucking much!!

[Maven]

64. Ya know, you're right - I'm sure Donald Trump will get us much closer to single payer

Oh, and don't worry about oil consumption - he's gonna bring back COAL!

That is, after he gets done lowering taxes on the rich.

What was that Ted Cruz said? Oh yeah - vote your conscience!

[onecaliberal]

66. You don't want our votes remember.

Now you're crying for our votes... No worries, that's what we thought. And don't blame me for trump, blame the god damn corporate owned fucks who occupy our congress and ignore the suffering. If you had critical thought you'd know that. I'm not a Hillary fan, but I damn sure WILL vote for her and I made that clear. We don't need the likes of you twisting facts in the wind because they have become inconvenient for you. These fucking emails were known about long ago, the powers that be should have canned her ass when 3/4 of our state house races were lost on her watch.

Edit to add: There is NOT one democrat working towards single payer either, so spare me that pathetic argument.

[Maven]

78. Crying for your votes?

What self-importance. Did I say I blamed you for Trump? No. But people flogging this "inside baseball" story to reopen divisions from the primaries is the desired result of Trump and the Russian intelligence operatives who leaked the info, NOT US. I am NO FAN of DWS and I'm glad she is gone. In fact I hope she is not seen for the rest of the convention. But certainly people need to realize what is going on and not allow themselves to be used by people who are the sworn enemies of progressive change.

By the way, since you bring it up, there IS a Democrat who is working tirelessly for single payer. Dr. Irene Aguilar, State Senator from Colorado. She put single payer on the ballot there and we have a real chance of getting it passed. Funny how you hear so little about that on DU, when in all likelihood, single payer will have to happen first on the state, not the federal, level. Instead, we'll focus 100% on the presidential race, putting our faith in one man (or woman) alone who can fix it. Much easier to cry foul and throw up our hands when that person doesn't win, than actually do the work to make real change.

[Loki]

57. Can you justify the Sander's campaign hacking into Clinton's voter data?

Just asking. Was anything ever acted upon, or is this just the thought and word police being forever "Determined to be Offended".

[annavictorious]

60. It's called a double standard.

Some people are sickened only when two staffers of someone they don't like engage in a thought crime by exchanging an email.

Data theft by staffers of someone they like...no problem!

[pnwmom]

62. Which emails, specifically, were offensive or indicate some wrong action was taken?

Aside from Brad Marshall's anti-atheist email?

[heresAthingdotcom]

67. Put a gun to your head and pull the trigger... or put a gun to my head and pull the trigger...

because that is what you are doing.... by not uniting and defeating Trump...

[Stellar]

68. In other words, if we were calling Bernie the Presumptive nominee, everything would be hooky-dory?

and we could move right along, even if one of Bernie's surrogates helped your candidate Hillary lose the campaign. Comb ayah.

[CobaltBlue]

69. Chasstev365—I am not surprised.

I think the people who yield the most influence in the Democratic Party, the ones who direct where they will go not only with their operations but on the agenda, are out of touch. Willfully out of touch.

[LAS14]

74. I wouldn't say "move on", I'd say...

... please postpone. Let's get past this Trump threat and THEN focus on cleaning up our act.

[whathehell]

92. Good point. n/t

[MohRokTah]

75. DWS didn't do anything wrong and failure to move on is just stupid. eom

[cloudbase]

77. Reasonable standards are apparently applicable only

to the opposition.

[Squinch]

79. Sickened that you are sickened by the two emails out of 20,000 that were exchanged

between two low level assholes who were shooting the shit after Sanders lost the primary.

Sickened that you fell for the trap Putin and Trump set for you.

I don't ever want to see anyone helping out Donald Trump like that again! We should be smarter than this!

[Duckhunter935]

80. Indeed so

[LisaM]

84. The primaries were not rigged.

Please stop.

[Phlem]

102. !

[CharlotteVale]

88. K&R

[johnp3907]

93. Democrats favored the Democrat?

Shocking!

[Gman]

94. So be very sick

She was a fine chair and is a good congressperson.

[joeybee12]

96. I'm sickened by your post

Sickened by the fact that you and others can't see a smear for what it is...we need to unrec posts like yours to oblivion...we're better than what you post

[Phlem]

101. K&R! Thank you for this excellent post.

[afertal]

104. I agree with everything you've said except...

..that we are a better party that that.

Political parties exist primarily to ensure their own continuity! '..undermining the outsider' is the way the game is played.

[Saviolo]

105. It is possible

To be unhappy with how the DNC has behaved during the primaries and also be extremely upset that there may be massive foreign influence on this hacking scandal.

DWS backed payday loans companies against Elizabeth Warren, and the DNC rejected requests several times on Bernie's part for more debates. It was pointed out very early on that she had been Hillary's campaign manager previously, and that there might be a conflict of interest there in an organization that is supposed to remain neutral across its potential candidates.

By the same token, Wikileaks has turned into a really gross organization, and if they're being backed by Putin-funded Russian hackers who are trying to prop up Trump, that's massively troubling, too.

I'm glad to see DWS step down. If there are even the hints of skeletons in the DNC's closet, they need to clean that shit out because Trump is going to BEAT US OVER THE HEAD with them. I'm terrified because this election is too close right now. To everyone who says "Trump will never be elected!" I hope most fervently that you are right, but it is so vital to GOTV and not assume that he's going to have some kind of meltdown between now and November.

Bernie's stepping up to the plate despite what happened during the primary, and is supporting Hillary while still working to further liberal planks within the Democratic platform. He's not taking the bait on this email thing and bad-mouthing Hillary or DWS, and he's got his sight set squarely on Trump, which is what all of us need to do.

Clean the closets, boost the candidate, and defeat the worst Republican presidential nominee seen in living memory.

[beachbumbob]

106. What did DNC actually do??!...Bernie lost move on

[Android3.14]

107. You have to love the angry-because-we-got-caught excuses

And the ninnies smugly proclaiming the emails don't show exactly what they do show just makes me feel embarrassed that we allow six-year-olds to join in adult discussions.

Situational ethics is so ugly.

[geologic]

109. ...

[vdogg]

110. How many of these threads are we going to have today?

I can see the "Don't keep fighting the last presidential primary" rule has gone straight out the window...

[dvduval]

112. Love DWS

Dancing with the Stars is awesome. Why do you have to drag down artists for the sake of politics? Jeez!