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Rhiannon12866

(250,420 posts)
Thu Jan 8, 2026, 03:59 AM Thursday

Trump's wind energy assault sinks permitting reform - Senate Environment & Public Works Committee



By sabotaging one of our cheapest, cleanest energy sources, the Trump Administration has made clear that it is not interested in permitting reform.

On the Senate floor, ‪Senator Whitehouse‬ makes clear that the illegal attacks on fully permitted wind energy projects must be reversed if there is to be any chance that permitting talks resume. - 01/07/2026.

12 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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rampartd

(3,843 posts)
1. drill baby drill
Thu Jan 8, 2026, 04:13 AM
Thursday

'cause we ain't gonna need a planet after jesus returns.

what is wrong with these people?

hunter

(40,385 posts)
2. Wind energy is not cheap, clean, or green.
Thu Jan 8, 2026, 06:05 PM
Thursday

Sure, the creature-who-shall-not-be-named opposes it, but it's for all the wrong reasons.

Integrating wind energy into a reliable electric grid is EXPENSIVE and will only prolong our dependence on natural gas, thus doing nothing in the long run to reduce the total amount of greenhouse gasses humans ultimately dump into the atmosphere.

I don't want to see wind turbines off the California coast. We won't save the world by trashing it with these short-lived, high maintenance, follies.

As some kind of radical environmentalist I prioritize my opposition to massive data centers, factory farm meat and dairy production, and car culture.

The people with the smallest environmental footprints generally live in cities, don't own cars, and enjoy a mostly vegetarian diet.

thought crime

(1,229 posts)
3. Wind energy is cheaper, cleaner, and greener than doing nothing.
Fri Jan 9, 2026, 05:04 PM
Friday
Wind is one of cleanest, “greenest” and least costly sources of energy. Offshore Wind is more costly, but still economically viable while being much cleaner than fossil fuels and safer than nuclear. Floating Offshore Wind mitigates the NIMBY effect because turbines are much farther offshore. But I want to see wind turbines off the Pacific Coast and Hawaii because that’s what doing something about Climate Change actually looks like.

“Radical environmentalists” have long opposed data centers, factory farm meat and dairy production, and car culture. How effective has that really that been so far? Has it made a real dent in climate change or energy use? Have “Radical environmentalists” successfully convinced a majority to voluntarily reduce their carbon footprints to achieve measurable reductions in carbon output? Or is that really just “doing nothing in the long run to reduce the total amount of greenhouse gasses humans ultimately dump into the atmosphere”.

We no longer have the luxury to wait for ideal solutions. Wind and solar energy have some downsides but they both have the tremendous economic advantage of "extracting" an unlimited resource that doesn't affect the climate. The renewable industries now have inertia and momentum around the world and both are showing an amazing range of innovation and flexibility allowing better ways to integrate with existing electric grids but also to support development of a new "really green" hydrogen economy.

Real Radical Environmentalist Bill McKibben champions solar and wind energy as the most effective tools to combat climate change, arguing they are now the cheapest power sources, represent the fastest energy transition in history, and offer a path to a more democratic and sustainable future, despite disinformation campaigns from the fossil fuel industry

hunter

(40,385 posts)
4. Wind energy is a bonanza for the natural gas industry...
Fri Jan 9, 2026, 09:04 PM
Friday

... and all the people who make and install the expensive equipment required to integrate it into the grid.

Wind energy won't slow down our slide into global warming catastrophe enough to matter. It's a "feel good" distraction. The biggest conservation impact it has is that high electricity prices force people who are constantly living on the edge of financial ruin to use less electricity and buy less stuff, including some necessities like healthy food and medical insurance.

Affluent people don't care about the price of electricity or the cost of generating it themselves. They'll put solar panels on their roof and consider themselves "green."

The energy "transition" is a blatant lie. We are not transitioning away from fossil fuels. It's not a case of "perfection being the enemy of the good" because wind power is not good. It's just an alternate way of trashing the planet.

The only energy resource capable of displacing fossil fuels entirely (which we need to do) and supporting eight billion people is nuclear power. That's just the way the math works out.

As a species we've backed ourselves into a corner.

thought crime

(1,229 posts)
5. Wind energy will compete with natural gas
Fri Jan 9, 2026, 10:40 PM
Friday

Last edited Sat Jan 10, 2026, 12:01 AM - Edit history (1)

Your comment says “wind energy won't slow down our slide into global warming catastrophe enough to matter”, but the only alternatives you offer are voluntary conservation and nuclear energy, which have already failed to slow down our slide into global warming catastrophe enough to matter. Nuclear power, in particular has been in use for a long time and is still providing less than 10% of electricity worldwide with the same or even a slightly declining share in the last twenty years. Those who claim that only nuclear power can displace fossil fuels must explain why it has failed to do so.

On the other hand Wind and Solar have both increased in the share of global electricity in the last ten years and together now provide a greater worldwide share of electricity than nuclear power and projected to continue to grow due to the lower cost of development and the limitless and accessible supply of solar and wind energy.

Trump's dislike of "windmills" may seriously disrupt wind energy development in this country for the next three years, but the rest of the world is moving on.

hunter

(40,385 posts)
6. I'll make this short and it's the last I will reply.
Sat Jan 10, 2026, 10:37 AM
17 hrs ago

With an aggressive nuclear power and electrification program we can make fossil fuels redundant. This of course would make large scale wind and solar projects redundant too.

Wind and solar power cannot make fossil fuels redundant. They might reduce the RATE at which we burn fossil fuels (so far they have not) but they will not in the long run reduce the total amount of greenhouse gasses humans eventually dump into earth's atmosphere.

There is enough natural gas in the ground to completely destroy earth's natural environment as we humans have known it. Hybrid gas / solar / wind power systems will not save the world.


hatrack

(64,271 posts)
7. What aggressive nuclear power program?
Sat Jan 10, 2026, 12:29 PM
16 hrs ago

Last edited Sat Jan 10, 2026, 04:39 PM - Edit history (1)

Vogtle 4 - online 29 April 2024
Vogtle 3 - online 31 July 2023
Watts Bar 2 - online 4 June 2016
Watts Bar 1 - online 27 May 1996
Comanche Peak 2 - online 3 August 1993
Comanche Peak 1 - online 13 August 1990

And that's the story of the last 35 years. In addition to these six, there were two reactors entering service in 1990 other than Comanche Peak.

46 units came online from 1980 to 1989, inclusive, most of which had begun construction (more or less) ten years before. And if the same more or less ten-year timeline holds for any new units, they wouldn't be ready until the mid-2030s at the earliest.

With that guesstimate of a timeline in mind two additional considerations:

1. By the mid 2030s, we'll be at roughly 460 parts per million atmospheric CO2 content - that is, there will be another 90 billion tons of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. The uptake of those additional 90 billion tons by natural systems will not be complete for somewhere between 10,000 and 20,000 years.

Certainly, adding generation that doesn't directly add to that GHG production will be welcome, but who the hell knows if existing plants in Texas and Arizona are going to be able to operate, given constraints on temperatures and water? Who the hell knows if plants in coastal Florida are going to be able to work in the face of rising sea levels and more powerful hurricanes?

2. What will the AI bubble do to warp utility investment patterns? It's possible that a collapse in the farcical inflation of valuations of Nvidia et. al. will provide a way to break the fever of stupid that's driving investment in even more NG and bringing coal out of mothballs. Or not. It may be that investor hot air keeps the shitshow going long enough to involve long-term, legally binding and very expensive buildouts of power plants that won't be used for server farms that are never built.

What then? Will utilities, facing debt and malinvestment, keep those power plants offline? Probably not, and those carbon-energy plants will do what they've always done - add even more GHGs to our air. Meanwhile, the additional funding that would have been available for investments in nuclear will either be lost, unavailable or prohibitively expensive because Win AI Race Shiny New Thing Line Go Up.

Oh, and invoking small modular reactors doesn't count. We are not talking small modular and unproven - we are talking here about large, baseload plants, which are the only kind likely to make a dent in future output.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_commercial_nuclear_reactors

thought crime

(1,229 posts)
9. Why can't Wind and Solar make fossil fuels redundant?
Sat Jan 10, 2026, 04:06 PM
12 hrs ago

Why are you convinced that nuclear power can make fossil fuels redundant, but Wind and Solar power can't?
You give no reason why it can't, so I'll assume you have no idea.

An "aggressive" Offshore Floating Wind farm program that uses wind energy to generate electricity directly and to produce hydrogen fuel can produce enough energy to meet the world's needs.

NNadir

(37,313 posts)
8. If one believes this kind of nonsense, one merely needs to look at electricity prices in Germany and Denmark...
Sat Jan 10, 2026, 02:46 PM
13 hrs ago

...in comparison to the rest of Europe.

Let's see if I can be of help:



Source: EU, Eurostat Electricity Prices (Accessed 01/10/26)

The big lie sold by advocates of tearing the shit out of the natural environment for the wind and solar scam is to bury the cost of redundancy which is almost always provided by dangerous fossil fuels, about which advocates of wind and solar couldn't care less. (Their entire raison d'être has nothing to do with objection to fossil fuels; it is entirely about attacking nuclear energy.)

This redundancy, besides its odious and unsustainable dependency on excessive (fossil fuel powered) mining and the destruction of natural wilderness to make industrial parks, has profound climate implications as well.

One could also look at the climate gas intensity of electricity in that coal dependent antinuke hellhole of Germany and compare it to nuclear powered France, available at yearly, monthly and hourly figures at the electricity map.



Apologists for the so called "renewable energy" is "cheap and green" mythology, who again, couldn't care less about fossil fuels and so called "renewable energy's" dependence on them, actually should open their eyes and embrace reality, but experience teaches that they would rather just chant nonsense.

thought crime

(1,229 posts)
10. The climate deniers' talking point that renewables are "intermittent"
Sat Jan 10, 2026, 05:34 PM
10 hrs ago

and therefore require redundant fossil fuel (or nuclear) back ups. Trump actually uses this in his war on windmills.

Nothing personal, but it's a frequent ploy of deniers to push the idea that climate activists want to immediately remove all fossil fuels or that renewables will require fossil fuels, forever. The real situation is not static.

Just as a commitment to using nuclear power requires an understanding that there will be a long period of transition during build-out, a commitment to renewables includes a transition before fossil fuels are completely eliminated. Currently, there may be redundant systems using fossil fuels but as renewable systems become more advanced, effective, and widespread there will be capacity for Power To X (P2X) converting wind/solar energy to an intermediate form for storage and use as a clean fuel in an electrical generation system. Conversion to hydrogen has already been demonstrated and China is building an offshore wind system that will produce hydrogen without desalination. This increases efficiency and eliminates brine waste. Japan has developed a liquid hydrogen carrying ship to transport hydrogen from a Coal fired hydrogen generating plant in Australia to Japan. This technology will be used just as well to transport from P2X Wind Farms that will export hydrogen to market. Recyclable turbine blades are being developed, too. If you are skeptical, you probably just haven't paid much attention to the tremendous amount of innovation in this fast growing industry.

An ultimate wind system appears to be a Floating Offshore Wind Farm located far from shore to mitigate NIMBY concerns and in strong wind ocean zones such as off the Pacific Coast and Hawaii (trade winds that I am joyously experiencing at this very moment. ). Floating Offshore Solar Farms are being developed, too.

One reason for the fast growth of renewables is the flexibility of design, construction and location that makes the systems ideal in developing countries and island nations, and marginal spaces. The same advantage will allow some developing nations to become major hydrogen exporters in the future.

Of course, we are just observers but I think Trump is wrong in his war on wind. The hydrogen bus has left the station.

NNadir

(37,313 posts)
11. Really? Is this just sloganeering or is there any evidence to support these absurd claims?
Sat Jan 10, 2026, 11:30 PM
4 hrs ago

Here's some evidence that the so called "renewable energy" has not a fucking thing to do with climate change or addressing climate change or addressing fossil fuels:

It's called a "reference." The reference is to the World Energy Outlook, published annually by the International Energy Agency, usually in November, in this case November of 2025. In this edition it can be found on page 426.



For the record, I have been following the WEO for decades. I have in my files PDF copies of every issue in the current century, and several from the previous century. Because I've been following it so long, I have learned to distinguish between the two portions always present, the data and the soothsaying. The former is historical and based on measurement and the collection of data. The latter is crystal ball reading and is essentially meaningless.

For convenience, I have assembled the data from relatively recent editions of the WEO (comparing data from 2000), converting the energy units historically used (MTOE) to the SI unit, Exajoule.



What does the data say for the most recent edition, the 2025 edition? Well for one thing it says that the multitrillion dollar solar and wind scam is trivial compared to any of the three dangerous fossil fuels, that it has never kept pace with the growth in the use of dangerous fossil fuels, about which advocates of this expensive and useless scam, again, couldn't care less.

Combined, solar and wind have never, not once at any point in history, despite wild eyed cheering, and the absorption of sums of money greater than the GDP of India, a nation with more than 1 billion people in it, produced as much energy nuclear energy has been producing for decades in an atmosphere of contempt driven by fear and ignorance.

In the "percent talk" that the apologists for tearing the shit out of the planet's surface for wind and solar junk that doesn't last two decades before becoming landfill, wind or solar produces about 5% as much energy as dangerous coal, about which said apologists, again, couldn't care less, less than 5% as energy as is produced by oil, about which said apologists, again, couldn't care less, and about 6% as much energy as dangerous natural gas, about which said apologists, again, couldn't care less.

Combined, solar and wind, at 18 EJ combined total produce 3.5% as much energy as combined coal, oil and gas, 519 EJ.

Now let's be clear. Apologists for so called "renewable energy" - which by the way, because of it's land and mass requirements and short life times is not, despite the marketing term for it, "renewable," are only interested in bad mouthing nuclear energy. I've been here for 23 years listening to this set of benighted uninformed people who I regard as, despite their self descriptions, as uninterested in the environment, tell me all about how "renewable energy" will save the world, all the time attacking nuclear energy while ignoring (or at best paying delusional lip service to) fossil fuels.

The results are in: The planet is burning.

I joined DU in November of 2002, now over 23 years ago. In the week beginning November 17, 2002, the week I joined, the concentration of the dangerous fossil fuel waste carbon dioxide - about which apologists for so called "renewable energy" couldn't care less - was 367.89 ppm. For the week beginning 12/28/2025, the last full week recorded at the Mauna Loa CO2 observatory (to be updated tomorrow) that concentration was 428.78 ppm. The concentration has grown by 55.58 ppm while I've been here listening to poster after poster after poster tell me all about so called "renewable energy."

The data can be found here: Trends in CO2 NOAA Mauna Loa Observatory.

(This too, is called a "reference." )

I'm an atheist, for the record. I'm unimpressed by chanted slogans. I look at data and something called "reality."

Here's a reality: The planet, again, is burning, and the same damned slogans I've been hearing here for 23 year have not done a damned thing to change that outcome. I am thus extremely unimpressed with this series of delusional commentaries about "renewable energy." They played out. They didn't work. They made things get worse faster.

Do I make myself clear?

May I make a suggestion? It is not a "crime" to think. Thinking, however, involves interpretation of data, acting on the world as it is, as opposed to relying on a kind mysticism involved with the recitation and chanting of dogma.

I trust you're having the happiest of New Years.

thought crime

(1,229 posts)
12. Well, thank you??
Sun Jan 11, 2026, 02:13 AM
2 hrs ago

The first table you show labeled “Net Zero Emissions by 2050” appears to show or project renewables as making up the majority of world energy supply by 2050, with modest increase in nuclear power and declines in fossil fuels. That seems like good news for the climate.

The iea.org site that you referenced (“It’s called a reference”) provides a summary of the role of renewables

https://www.iea.org/energy-system/renewables

“The deployment of renewables in the power, heat and transport sectors is one of the main enablers of keeping the rise in average global temperatures below 1.5°C. In the Net Zero Emissions by 2050 scenario, renewables allow electricity generation to be almost completely decarbonised. Meanwhile, renewable transport fuels and renewable heat contribute to significant emissions reductions in transport, buildings and industry.”

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