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Judi Lynn

(163,962 posts)
Mon Jan 16, 2023, 09:52 PM Jan 2023

Lasers revealed 5 ancient civilizations that were hiding in plain sight

Paola Rosa-Aquino Jan 1, 2023, 10:30 AM



LiDAR captured the ruins of a civilization in the Brazilian Amazon. Ecossistema Dakila

  • Archeologists beam lasers from the sky to unearth ancient settlements hiding in plain sight.

  • LiDAR uses laser pulses to penetrate dense vegetation, revealing human-built structures underneath.

  • State-of-the-art laser technology is transforming archaeology by creating 3D renderings of ruins.

    In recent years, archaeologists have turned to lasers in order to unearth ancient civilizations that were previously invisible.

    A laser technology known as LiDAR — short for light detection and ranging — uses planes to beam thousands of laser pulses from the sky at the ground below, penetrating through thick, deep forest canopy. That provides researchers with three-dimensional maps underneath the vegetation, revealing human-built structures.

    From a Mayan city to complex villages deep in the Brazilian Amazon, here are five previously unknown civilizations that were discovered through state-of-the-art LiDAR technology.

    A hidden 2,000-year-old Mayan civilization in northern Guatemala



    Researchers found a 2,000-year-old Mayan civilization in northern Guatemala using LiDAR. Hansen et al.

    Using laser pulses, researchers detected a 2,000-year-old Mayan civilization in northern Guatemala with nearly 1,000 archaeological sites.

    More:
    https://www.businessinsider.com/ancient-civilizations-that-were-hiding-in-plain-sight-2023-1

    Also posted in Anthropology:
    https://www.democraticunderground.com/12299031
  • 23 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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    Lasers revealed 5 ancient civilizations that were hiding in plain sight (Original Post) Judi Lynn Jan 2023 OP
    Fabulous malaise Jan 2023 #1
    Always looking forward to your research! erronis Jan 2023 #2
    Fantastic! Thanks for posting housecat Jan 2023 #3
    Thank you for posting such interesting things, Judi Lynn judesedit Jan 2023 #4
    Reminds me of a short story I read decades ago... 'Nightfall', I think, in which wiggs Jan 2023 #5
    And cultures affected by natural climate change, volcanism, and cosmic fallout. StClone Jan 2023 #7
    Asimov... reACTIONary Jan 2023 #8
    Asimov, yes. Whatthe_Firetruck Jan 2023 #18
    How are lasers penetrating dense vegetation? CloudWatcher Jan 2023 #6
    This message was self-deleted by its author reACTIONary Jan 2023 #9
    Worked with lidar for about 10 years. Pobeka Jan 2023 #10
    Thank you! CloudWatcher Jan 2023 #11
    Very cool! Psychics have predicted that the ruins of ancient civilizations would be found FakeNoose Jan 2023 #12
    This lidar doesn't, but there is water penetrating lidar. Pobeka Jan 2023 #14
    Underwater structures have been spotted, for sure, in the Caribbean. Judi Lynn Jan 2023 #19
    Very cool. Guatemala should restore it and turn it into a tourist attraction. SunSeeker Jan 2023 #13
    K n R ! Thanks for posting!... JoeOtterbein Jan 2023 #15
    Cool post. Marcuse Jan 2023 #16
    Hoping to find more and more! Thanks. Judi Lynn Jan 2023 #20
    This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Jan 2023 #17
    Haven't run across them, yet, but I've not been looking long enough, either.... Judi Lynn Jan 2023 #21
    Are you familiar with the Cahokia Mounds in Illinois? Not exactly the same FakeNoose Jan 2023 #22
    This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Jan 2023 #23

    erronis

    (21,458 posts)
    2. Always looking forward to your research!
    Mon Jan 16, 2023, 10:40 PM
    Jan 2023

    And I get lots of scientific journals, periodicals.

    Yours frequently point me to something I haven't seen before.

    wiggs

    (8,470 posts)
    5. Reminds me of a short story I read decades ago... 'Nightfall', I think, in which
    Mon Jan 16, 2023, 11:10 PM
    Jan 2023

    civilizations rise and fall worldwide due to a pattern of global destruction and recovery. And subsequent civilizations have no idea of the civilizations that came before. Asimov maybe?

    Whatthe_Firetruck

    (610 posts)
    18. Asimov, yes.
    Tue Jan 17, 2023, 02:09 AM
    Jan 2023
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightfall_(Asimov_novelette_and_novel)#:~:text=%22Nightfall%22%20is%20a%201941%20science,by%20sunlight%20at%20all%20times.

    CloudWatcher

    (2,127 posts)
    6. How are lasers penetrating dense vegetation?
    Mon Jan 16, 2023, 11:19 PM
    Jan 2023

    The original article doesn't go into any details about just how the lasers are able to do this. Won't
    normal LIDAR pulses just reflect off the canopy? Or are they using super-lasers that burn their
    way through the vegetation? How does it work really?

    The bottom line is that they send out billions of pulses, most of which do reflect off the canopy.
    But a few million get through to the ground and are reflected. The computers process the results
    and can tell the difference. Then they stitch it all together to make the jungle seem like it has vanished.

    Seriously cool hack.

    Here's a nice description of the process:

    https://medium.com/supplyframe-hardware/lidar-looking-through-a-jungle-canopy-e19fc40e0f88

    Response to CloudWatcher (Reply #6)

    Pobeka

    (4,999 posts)
    10. Worked with lidar for about 10 years.
    Mon Jan 16, 2023, 11:44 PM
    Jan 2023

    A well designed lidar pulse is basically a lot of photons shaped roughly the size of a soccerball.

    As that soccerball mass of photons starts hitting stuff, some of the photons get reflected back to the lidar instrument, which is typically in a airplane. If the object reflects enough photons, the distance to the object is recorded and called a "return". The photons that were not reflected continue on the path, and so there can be more than one return from a single pulse.

    There is a whole protocol the vender will use to determine the validity of a lidar return (for example a return can be generated by a bird flying in the air).

    There is another protocol for determining that the return most likely made it to the ground, and if so can be classified as a "ground" return.

    While the images you see here look solid, the truth is likely only about 10% of the terrain is in the path of a lidar pulse, but still it is more than enough to identify these kinds of structures.

    Here's the mind blowing thing about new lidar instruments (new meaning 6 years ago or so): They can give a precision of about 1 cm of the distance from where the return was generated to airplane. That means the clock resolution (how fast the clock runs), has to work at a granularity of the time it takes light to travel 2 cm. I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to calculate that time interval.

    Absolutely none of this would be practical without a global GPS system, which gives a very precise estimate of the position of the airplane.

    CloudWatcher

    (2,127 posts)
    11. Thank you!
    Tue Jan 17, 2023, 12:03 AM
    Jan 2023

    Thanks much for the addition info! The ability to accurately stitch all this data together from observations from
    moving airplanes is pretty impressive.

    FakeNoose

    (38,853 posts)
    12. Very cool! Psychics have predicted that the ruins of ancient civilizations would be found
    Tue Jan 17, 2023, 12:05 AM
    Jan 2023

    ... in the Mayan areas of Central America. I've read that in different books, but the psychics never said how the ruins would be discovered. I wonder if this LIDAR works underwater by flying over the ocean?

    Pobeka

    (4,999 posts)
    14. This lidar doesn't, but there is water penetrating lidar.
    Tue Jan 17, 2023, 12:11 AM
    Jan 2023

    It works at a different wavelength.

    A google search showed it can reach about 1000 feet deep -- if the laser is powerful enough.

    Judi Lynn

    (163,962 posts)
    19. Underwater structures have been spotted, for sure, in the Caribbean.
    Tue Jan 17, 2023, 02:56 AM
    Jan 2023

    I've been waiting so long to know when someone decides to start doing some serious study in several places which have been studied superficially. There's so much to learn, clearly!

    As technology is developing quickly, it may be sooner than we might think.

    SunSeeker

    (56,853 posts)
    13. Very cool. Guatemala should restore it and turn it into a tourist attraction.
    Tue Jan 17, 2023, 12:08 AM
    Jan 2023

    Guatemala could use the money.

    Response to Judi Lynn (Original post)

    Judi Lynn

    (163,962 posts)
    21. Haven't run across them, yet, but I've not been looking long enough, either....
    Tue Jan 17, 2023, 03:19 AM
    Jan 2023

    As you can see, the people who seized the land after killing the people who lived on it, putting survivors in reservations, tearing up their villages, burning their crops, etc., etc., etc. left very little anywhere which might have concealed anything.....

    They even slaughtered millions of buffaloes intentionally, stacking their skulls and bones in huge mountains by the railroad tracks and having trains haul them all off to Canada to be ground and turned into fertilizer.

    A lot of effort was made trying to destroy every trace of the people who were here before, as if to cover up the colossal crime against humanity.

    I'll bet, in time, there will be discoveries made at long last, anyway!

    On edit:

    By the way, the former President of Brazil, Jair Bolsonaro started telling people, back when he was a legislator, that he envied the US's ability to have disappeared practically all the indigenous people, as he wished that could have happened in Brazil.

    FakeNoose

    (38,853 posts)
    22. Are you familiar with the Cahokia Mounds in Illinois? Not exactly the same
    Tue Jan 17, 2023, 11:40 AM
    Jan 2023

    (Wikipedia link) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cahokia

    There are ancient burial mounds that have been partially excavated in central Illinois. Its location near the Mississippi River suggests that possibly a group migrated northward up the river from Central America at least a thousand years before Columbus. Much is unknown since there are no written records found (yet), only carvings and statuary. But the position of the mounds suggests that it might have been a city similar to the Mayan ruins in Mexico.

    Response to FakeNoose (Reply #22)

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