Texas
Related: About this forumThis Texas county asked for disaster resilience help. The flood came first.
Flooding is a fact of life in Texas Hill Country, a region home to a flood-prone corridor known as Flash Flood Alley. Judge Rob Kelly, the top elected official in Kerr County, said as much on Sunday.
We know we get rains. We know the river rises, he said as a desperate search for survivors continued along the Guadalupe, a river that rose more than 30 feet in just five hours last week. But nobody saw this coming.
County records show that some Kerr County officials did see it coming and raised concerns about the countys outdated flood warning system nearly a decade ago.
Their first request for help updating the technology was denied in 2017, when Kerr County applied for roughly $1 million in federal Hazard Mitigation Grant Program aid from the Texas Department of Emergency Management. County officials tried again in 2018 after Hurricane Harvey swept Texas, killing 89 people and causing some $159 billion in damage. Again, the state denied the request, directing most federal assistance toward more densely populated areas, including Houston.
As neighboring counties invested in better emergency warning systems, Kerr County the heart of Flash Flood Alley never modernized an antiquated flood warning system that lacks basic components like sirens and river gauges. At least 110 people, including 27 children, have died so far in the deadliest floods the state has seen since 1921. Most of them drowned in Kerr County, largely because they didnt know the water was coming. The search for at least 161 other people continues.
https://grist.org/extreme-weather/amid-historic-texas-floods-trump-retreats-from-disaster-preparedness/

UpInArms
(53,104 posts)COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know we had a baby flood a couple weeks ago, a month or so, whatever it was. And I keep hearing these reports of the old, old system, and I know we're not going to deal with that though. Expect that to be gone where the Jones call the Smiths, and the Smiths call Camp Rio Vista, and Rio Vista blah, blah, blah, along down the line. But it's still there and it still works. The thought of our beautiful Kerr County having these damn sirens going off in the middle of night, I'm going to have to start drinking again to put up with y'all.
COMMISSIONER MOSER: I think -- I think this and that's what the committee is going to look at and how to do it. I think the going in position is that we don't need to change anything, and is there a need to improve what we have. And if there's a need to improve how much is improved. And what the options for doing that and what it would cost. And I think the first thing to do is say why change anything. It worked this long and maybe we don't need to do a thing. And then it gets into the thing we talk about earlier today, and that's risk mitigation. And you know there's still people drowned and you know --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I hope you ask the question like who are we notifying, or who are we trying to get the message to? Are they these crazy people from Houston that build homes right down on the water?
COMMISSIONER MOSER: Well, I think the thing is you say it's for the general public and the crazy people from wherever they are, from Houston, okay, and then the camps, and then how do you get the message out to those, that's all part of it, so it's a pretty complex project.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sure it is.
COMMISSIONER MOSER: And the question is do we need to do anything. And what do we want to do and what can we afford.
MRS. STEBBINS: Commissioner Moser, will you put it on the next agenda for discussion after you have this meeting on Thursday?
COMMISSIONER MOSER: Oh, absolutely, right.
MRS. STEBBINS: Okay, thank you.
JUDGE POLLARD: I would comment that we don't hardly have any crazy people that live here. The few that we do have we handle them through CSU.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or they serve on this board.
JUDGE POLLARD: I'm just trying to keep us out of trouble here, okay. The media's still here. All right. Any other reports?
************ /end edit
In 2016 Kerr County contracted for an engineering study on their current warning system and were told it was antiquated and inadequate.
Commissioners' Court Regular Session 8/22/16
COMMISSIONER MOSER: We had at our steering committee meeting we invited also TxDOT to participate in that. So the original engineer, and both of them as a matter of fact showed up at that meeting. Their assessment was what existed today, and the Sheriff may want to comment on it, is antiquated and it's not reliable. So we said okay with that, you know, not just that, but we thought that there was a pretty ill-defined system that we have. So the engineering study we thought would be appropriate. If the result of the engineering study says that -- recommends that we enhance the system, okay, buying additional sensors, kind of like Comal County did. Comal County spent a little over three hundred thousand dollars, where they had add 8 locations to monitor the rate of rise of the river and streams.
COMMISSIONER REEVES: And while I agree with Commissioner Letz, that if we have a system that's not working, we need to certainly look at that, technology is great, but still one of the best things, and you may disagree with me is the people up river calling. Because you're probably going to get a call. I've received just this year from calls before it's even had time for a warning to go off, I'm getting texts from Divide Fire Chief, and I think -- where'd the Sheriff go? I sent you a text the other night, you may have got it too from him, but we're knowing probably before, and I know with one flood that we had earlier in the year, by the time you got the warnings going off, it had been too late. Because it was coming out of just some draws that took too long to get downstream.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have one. I'm going to vote no because of numerous reasons. I think this whole thing is a little extravagant for Kerr County, and I see the word sirens and all that stuff in here. And of course, you say that these are steps that will be taken through the years. But that's where you're headed, there's no question in my mind that's where you're headed. And you're determined to do that. But step one of taking these funds out of special projects, out of Road and Bridge, that ticks me off a little bit.
Commissioners' Court Regular Session 10/24/16
Mr. Hewitt: Sirens did not seem to get very much support. The thought was that sirens are better for tourists than local residents. The sirens would only be beneficial for someone that's not familiar with the area, and wouldn't know what to do.
The second part of the study contained recommendations for updating the system and sirens were purposely left out even though other areas had implemented them.
Links to the actual commissioners meetings can be found in that Reddit thread
UpInArms
(53,104 posts)COMMISSIONER MOSER: The cost of that whole thing is going to be like 976 thousand dollars. That's a lot of money. All of it, and the reason we're here today and moving so quickly is that there is a FEMA grant that's available until as long as we apply by January the 20th.
JUDGE POLLARD: Which is when President Obama goes out of office.
(Laughter.)
JUDGE POLLARD: Well, the reason I mention that is because he authorized this particular thing, and it's going to --
MS. KIRBY: It's a coincidence.
COMMISSIONER MOSER: Going on the record with that it's a coincidence. And so there has to be a presidential declaration of disaster to be able to have these kinds of funds available. So it goes away just so happens to be when he leaves office.
COMMISSIONER MOSER: So we've talked about, you know one of the things we said sirens and we said we don't want sirens, too many many people said they did not want sirens when they had these -- when we had these gatherings. Code Red, and I don't know if Dub wants to chime in on this, but Code Red is the same that's going to get information to a lot of people; not to everybody, okay. One of the things that we'll do is identify a point of contact in all of the camps, we won't communicate with everybody in the camp, but we have a point of contact at the camp so that they can disseminate people within -- to people within the camp, like during the summer when kids are there, or to RV parks. Now, if the RV parks want to have a siren themself when something goes up that's up to them. That's not part of our thing. So getting the information to the public is the end item of this whole thing. The first thing is sense a flood, then communicate that information to the local authorities, to the right authorities, and then for them to have a system by with which to disseminate the information to the public.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The only thing I have to remind people, unfortunately, I guess I'm one of the ones that Harley maybe has been around here to see some very devastating floods and quite a bit of loss of life. No matter what we do it's going to be up to the public, okay. The notification is great. I think the -- just the markers, the posts at the crossing is one thing, but it actually oughta state that at that level that your car may wash off, get people's attention at that crossing. The only other thing is, and as Bob can attest to, most of the time it has been informal where we call people. Unfortunately, the time we had the most devastating one down on the east end of the County down at the camps, I was working that night, spent 72 hours pulling kids out of fences. But we call people, we called camps, they made the decision that they thought they could beat that ride, and then that no matter what we do and no matter what we install there's going to be loss of life. It's educating people.
COMMISSIONER REEVES: And I will say and, Sheriff, you can correct me if I'm off base on this, the camps have had a very good system of letting down river if there's a rise, they're phoning their competitors or colleagues down river and letting them know what happened. It's informal as you said, but it's been a very good system to let them know over time.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. The camps and they do, they notify each other, we notify them, they notify -- there's a lot of informal things that really do work real well. It's not totally those unless they try to get them out too quick in trying to beat it. Because this river can come up in a instant, we all know that with the drainage. But it will go down just as quick if they just hold tight with what they've got. But the whole key is just getting people that are traveling up here from somewhere --
COMMISSIONER REEVES: That's my concern is ones that don't live here.
COMMISSIONER MOSER: That's everybody's concern.
JUDGE POLLARD: So this is kind of an offer, or to see if it's accepted by and also agreed to by UGRA and the City.
COMMISSIONER MOSER: Correct.
JUDGE POLLARD: And if they don't then where are we with this?
COMMISSIONER MOSER: If they don't then we just forget the whole project.
JUDGE POLLARD: Just dead in the water.
COMMISSIONER MOSER: Dead in the water, right. It's dead in the water.
COMMISSIONER REEVES: Question --
COMMISSIONER MOSER: Or the pun for the Flood Warning System.
JUDGE POLLARD: Dead in the water.
After failing to secure a grant, they continued to kick the can down the road.
2021 rolls around and they have over 5 mil in ARPA funds in their bank and wind up with a grand total of over 10 mil.
Commissioners' Court Regular Session 10/25/21 discussion of communication systems
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think that's good. I just think that -- you know, I'd like to get an idea of what the Sheriff's radar systems are going to cost. I mean I just don't want to send -- go out and get public input on something and then us just not be able to follow up because we have a priority that's different and we have additional information.
JUDGE KELLY: Well, but let me just explain. What all of these are intentioned to do is to initiate the education system. We need to get the Court educated. We need to get the public educated. Everybody knows that we have over $5 million sitting in our bank account that the Federal Government sent us for these ARPA funds. And they're not really grants, they're funds.
MRS. LAVENDER: And as the Judge said, there's a huge category. There's a bunch of things that you can spend the money or -- or secure the money to spend. And when we use the term grant, grant is not really what this is. It's just funding that's been made available through this American Rescue Plan Act. It doesn't require a match. It doesn't require, you know, that kind of structure. But it does have strings attached. It's not free money.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that's my concern, Judge. My concern is that from my understanding what the -- well, I won't say LCRA because I know what their number is. The number from the Sheriff's Department, the number from internal communications, we're already over 5 million dollars, so I don't want to go out to the public requesting -- we have no money to do it.
mdbl
(6,907 posts)Just don't hang out by the rivers.
LetMyPeopleVote
(166,244 posts)