maybe someone here knows- passports

[mopinko]

i'm getting ready to apply for an irish passport. i have a u.s. one, but it's expired.
should i renew it? will it be needed at some point? do i have to turn it in?

[Irish_Dem]

1. The US and Ireland have dual citizenship.

You don't have to give up your American passport.

A number of folks in my family have both passports.
Travel with an Irish passport in Europe is easier.

[mopinko]

3. i knew that part, actually.

tho i wonder about the process of switching instead of dual.

[Irish_Dem]

5. A big decision.

Online says you have to pay a large fee and appear before a US consulate officer.

Are you going to move to Ireland?

[mopinko]

6. well, if moved anywhere, it would be there.

if i sold all my property, i could live like a queen til the end of my days there.
there's an irish man i have a large crush on, but he's 800 mi away and as rooted as i. if he'd go w me, i'd be gone already.

i was already so damned rooted to where i am, then i found out i have ppl buried lass than a mile away. so, yeah, i'm prolly not going anywhere.

[Sanity Claws]

8. What are you going to do about taxes?

If you give up your US passport, are you giving up citizenship and thus not pay US income taxes? Are you prepared to pay Irish taxes?

[mopinko]

9. yes but

i dont expect to have much income. i'd be living on savings. i'll have income from investing that. but i dont think it will be enough to cost me a ton.
my parting gift to the u.s. would be a big ole pile of capital gains.

[Saoirse9]

19. I remember reading that the minimum income requirement was $55,000 per person

But I can't find any documentation for it. Anyway here's an article about Irish citizenship and dual citizenship:

https://www.internationalcitizens.com/citizenship/ireland.php

To Sum Things Up:
The Irish government allows foreign nationals to become Irish citizens in several ways. You can do so through ancestry or naturalization — and naturalization takes even less time if you’re married to a current Irish citizen.

And Ireland also allows for dual citizenship. That way, you can retain your passport from your home country and enjoy the travel freedom that comes with having an Irish passport.

There are other benefits, as well.

The cost of living in Ireland can be high if you live in or near a major city. But heating costs, satellite TV, and other incidentals that add up can be quite low compared to the U.S. And although many expats opt for international major medical insurance in Ireland, there is socialized, or subsidized, healthcare.

Note: being an Irish citizen will not automatically make you a British citizen. Both countries allow dual citizenship, but you would have to apply for British citizenship separately.

[mopinko]

23. lol. i'd rather be stateless than a citizen of the crown.

that would apply to my kids, but not me.
i tell ppl i'm an undocumented irish citizen. and i think that only applies if you want to live there. that's the point of most ppl who take that route. not sure how those things intersect.

[mopinko]

10. i have another ??

do people come back and get their family's land back?
i know sometimes folks find old titles. dames and earls and all. i sorta figure there's one out there for me, cuz i have some illustrious ancestors. beside unca mike, i found a cousin that still lives in the last town the other side of the family came from, and he assures me it was once a powerful family. that grampa came in a coffin ship, but..

[Irish_Dem]

12. When my grandparents went back to get their land, they had to be there in person

right after the older person died.

You had to come in person to claim the land and there was a time frame.

So your land is probably long gone.

[mopinko]

13. i dont know there is any, but...

one side was run out for being rebels, but that was 5 gen ago.
the last to come were a maid, i believe, and a laborer, 20 yr vet, 10 yrs out, on a coffin ship w his wife and 3 young kids.
i just wondered.

[Irish_Dem]

14. I don't know current Irish law.

Just what my Irish grandparents had to do in the 1920's to get their land.

They made the very expensive trip by boat back to Ireland to claim the land, it had to be in person.
They sold the land and came back to Boston and bought a rooming house to generate income.
Then lost in all in the crash of '29.

[mopinko]

15. the luck of the irish, i fear.

as far as i can tell, it's usually bad luck.

[Irish_Dem]

17. Right, if we didn't have bad luck we wouldn't have any luck at all. :(

[Irish_Dem]

18. The other thing, land passed to the oldest male heir.

If there were no males, it went to the oldest daughter. But she couldn't own land back then so it was given to her husband.

My grandfather was the oldest male child and had to go back and claim the land in person.
Or it would have gone to the next heir who presented in person within a certain time period.

But my great grandmother got her father's land because she was the oldest female child.
But she wasn't allowed to own land and the courts gave it to her husband.
And then the land went to her oldest male child.

[mopinko]

24. hey, i have a ?? bout that naming stuff-

so the chain of johns was broken w my gramps. i didnt think he had any sibs. never heard of any. when my mom got older, she thought she had only a few blood relations. she was wrong, actually, but...
so who is the 2nd son named after? this branch of the family is the not fertile one. i've been surprised not to see more dead children, tho there is a 17 yo in the family plot.

[Irish_Dem]

25. The second male child is named after his mother's father.

The child's maternal grandfather.

From what I have seen Irish naming tradition usually ends with the second generation Irish here in the US. My father followed it with his children, he was first generation Irish male and he called the shots.

Did you know that our first generation Irish American parents were Irish citizens?

If you do the DNA testing at Ancestry you might be able to find out the truth about grandpa's siblings.
Once you start seeing second cousins pop up on that line, you have your answer.

I am not buying an Irish family with just one kid. Seems very unlikely.

My Irish grandparents didn't talk about their sibs either. It is like when the left Ireland, it was all behind them. I did find grandpa's siblings in the Irish census which surprised me. And a long lost second cousin popped up on Ancestry that had to be from a male sibling to grandpa. Apparently the sibling slightly changed his name. But he is on the Irish census with my grandfather as kids. And of course I have the DNA proof he existed via a second cousin on grandpa's line.

So now you have a second research question which might be answered with DNA testing at Ancestry.

If you do the testing, I will show you how to organize the data to get meaningful results. Basically you are going to divide the match list in half according to mom or dad matches. Then divide it again into 4 categories, one for each grandparent. And then identify all your matches as belonging to one of the 4 groups. You do this by triangulating with known relatives and in common matching tools on Ancestry.

Once we know the DNA matches who belong to specific grandparents, we can look for surnames, locations, etc for finding their grandparent names etc from the match family trees. So you can identify the one grandfather's line you are looking for. Birth location, possible immigration data etc.

Ancestry now has very sophisticated norm groups and can actually tell you which Irish counties your DNA is from! Amazing, this is fairly new.

If you start getting second cousin matches that come from the grandfather who was supposed to be an only kid, well we know that is not true any longer.

All of that said, researching recent immigrant families in the US doesn't give much information compared to long time US residents.

I do adoption searches and it is just DNA science, genealogy and a bit of detective work.

[Layzeebeaver]

2. You will need a valid US passport when you re-enter

You MUST always enter the US with a US passport if you are a US citizen (even if you possess dual citizenship).

[CurtEastPoint]

4. Spot on. Learn something every day....

from travel.state.gov

U.S. nationals, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States. Dual nationals may also be required by the foreign country to use its passport to enter and leave that country. Use of the foreign passport to travel to or from a country other than the United States is not inconsistent with U.S. law.

[mopinko]

7. it being an eu passport means a lot to my kids.

they arent entitled, but they can apply once i have mine, and i am told it's usually granted.
i started looking into it when i had 2 draft age boys in the w yrs.
my youngest is still pissed i didnt do it in '16.

[TxGuitar]

20. Really? I hadn't heard children could get one

Unless they too have a parent/grandparent who was born in Ireland. You can get a stamp in their passport that allows them to stay there with you if you lived there, and after 5 years (I think) they have right to remain but I've never heard they could get citizenship.
Note, my wife and I are also dual citizens (via my grandfather) with US and Irish passports.

[mopinko]

22. i believe they take the path of anyone who applies for any reason.

take the test, etc. i dont know if there is a residency required or assumed, and that might matter. but having a parent w a passport is considered in the process.
they grant them cuz they want to tourism. and they'd like the diaspora to come home, or at least visit.

[TxGuitar]

26. This link might be helpful

https://www.dfa.ie/citizenship/born-abroad/registering-a-foreign-birth/

[TxGuitar]

27. as long as your children are

not adults yet, this might be possible. Once they are adults they have to have an Irish born grandparent or parent. Trust me, both of our daughters would have applied. Also for your wife (assuming she is not Irish) needs to live with you for 3 years in Ireland before she can apply. The rules changed in the early 2000's I think.

[mopinko]

28. yeah, if they're under 18, they get it too.

i tried to find out if anyone registered my birth or even my parent's in the foreign born registry. but all i got was- they wouldnt have to so why would they.
but if they had, my kids are good.

[TxGuitar]

29. just to be clear...

you don't have to give up US citizenship to get Irish citizenship. You do file US taxes, but there is a tax agreement with Ireland- you end up applying the Irish taxes to the US taxes. (Ireland has PAYE)

If you are not a millionaire (in reality) it will be difficult to get Irish citizenship unless you have a parent or grandparent born in Ireland. This process requires a lot of paperwork and is currently taking about 2 years.

You can get a job in Ireland if your profession is on the critical skills list and an Irish employer offers you a job. This can often lead to citizenship if you stay long enough.

Your children will not be able to get Irish passports immediately since you apparently have not been registered on the Foreign Birth Registry. As I said, you can start this process by registering yourself if you have an Irish born parent or grandparent.

If you are an EU citizen- you can move to Ireland and work there with no restrictions.

If you are married, you will have to live in Ireland for 3 years before your spouse can apply for Irish passport.

I am an Irish citizen by descent, my wife is a citizen because I am. We went through this process in 1999, when it was quicker-- I think it took me about 5 or 6 months. We have lived in Ireland and England and plan to return to Ireland permanently in the near future.

[mopinko]

31. well, there's an interesting point-

i just made my debut as a singer w an irish band. i wonder how hard artist visas are to get.

if i sold it all, it's the kind of money that they roll out the red carpet for, so there's that.
and the only reason i would do that is to move there. any kid who wants a passport can come stay w mom for whatever time it takes. all they have to do is put up w me. if they cant make that flex, to heck w them.

but dont have a plan to leave where i am, at least not full time. intend to be interred w the ancestors up the road. would only burn my passport is this place goes full fascist.

[hunter]

21. My pacifist parents had multiple escapes planned for me and my brothers during the Vietnam war.

We were Quakers, and we'd also lived in Europe. My parents would have moved us back to Europe in a heartbeat the moment they perceived any risk to us.

My ancestors didn't come to America for the golden opportunities, they were fleeing their homelands as everything around them was turning to shit.

One of my ancestors was a tenant farmer in the South just before the Civil War started. He smelled trouble coming, aimed for Oregon, and walked away.

When I was young, in a fit of rebellion, I thought I'd join the Navy. Alas, I was a hot mess of health problems, including the mental kind, so they rejected me. Curiously, they offered me a civilian job in Germany but I declined.

There are lines to be drawn when it comes to loyalty to any nation. "My nation, right or wrong!" is a stupid way to live.

For now my wife and I live in solidly Democratic California and don't have any reason to walk or sail away.

But oh yeah, Ireland is a lovely place. I could live there.

[GoneOffShore]

11. Friend here recently got her Irish citizenship. It took over 12 months and required many documents

One was a copy of her current American passport.

Know that if you move to Ireland, you will still be required to file US federal taxes, even if you are retired. You will also be able to have your American social security deposited, in euros, directly to your Irish bank account.
If your account goes over 10k€ in any calendar year you will have to file an FBAR - https://www.hrblock.com/expat-tax-preparation/resource-center/forms/fbar/fbar-filing-overview/

If you are planning on moving to Ireland, there are a couple of Facebook (Yeah, yeah. I know. Icky Facebook) groups that you may find useful. Both are called Americans Moving to Ireland. I'm not a member of either, so don't know what their internal politics are like.

There is no driving license reciprocity, so, in order to get an Irish license, you will have to take a test there.

FYI - we made the move to France four years ago next month. And are so glad we did. I'll be applying for French citizenship next year.

[mopinko]

16. i think moving there would require me to find

an old family place that i feel a connection to. the wicklow mountains, mebbe.

my folks tried so hard to make an american out of me, to confine the green to march 17th.
i never even heard any stories about my grandparents, and how they got here.
never sang the songs. then i fell down a rabbit hole in the plague. i joke i'm a lot more irish than i was in the before times, but it's dead true.

[TxGuitar]

30. I am a member of two FB groups for Americans moving to Ireland

Neither are political

[GoneOffShore]

32. That's good, as some of the Americans moving to France groups have some #loser45 supporters

[mopinko]

33. can you say which ones?

i'd be curious.

[TxGuitar]

34. Americans moving to Ireland

and Ireland Immigration Forum. The last one is particularly helpful with immigration questions. The moderator is very knowledgeable.

[mopinko]

35. ty