'You'll go down as a wimp:' Pence's never-before-published notes key evidence in case against Trump, book says

[BumRushDaShow]

Source: ABC News

October 26, 2025, 7:11 AM


Donald Trump berated Mike Pence, calling his then-vice president a "wimp" during their final phone call on Jan. 6, 2021, hours before Congress certified the 2020 election of Joe Biden, according to Pence's previously unpublished notes included in a new book by ABC News Chief Washington Correspondent Jonathan Karl.

According to court filings, had his case against Trump gone to trial, special counsel Jack Smith planned to use the handwritten notes -- hastily scribbled on Pence's day planner -- as evidence to document the hours before Trump allegedly directed a violent mob to storm the Capitol.

"You'll go down as a wimp," Trump told Pence about his decision not to block Biden's certification, according to Pence's notes about the call on the morning of Jan. 6, just before the president took the stage at the "Save America" rally on the Ellipse. "If you do that, I made a big mistake 5 years ago," Pence wrote Trump told him.

The exclusive details are reported in Karl's upcoming book, "Retribution: Donald Trump and the Campaign that Changed America." The notes also include what appears to be a scribble of an angry emoji after Trump told Pence, "You listen to the wrong people," according to Karl.

Read more: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/youll-wimp-pences-published-notes-key-evidence-case/story?id=126837443

---

Chief Justice John Roberts declared him "immune" so it makes no difference and then he can just pardon himself.

[GopherGal]

1. What really makes him a 'wimp" in my eyes...

is coming back for more after Jan 6.

Though I guess it's all shades of gray if you have so few principles as to have anything to do with Drumpf in the first place; his approval of his minions building a gallows for you shouldn't really be new information.

[COL Mustard]

19. At least Pence had the decency

To attend Joe Biden's swearing in. He whose name I can't mention had decamped to Florida and was having a rally at that time.

[TheJillMill]

26. But Mike Pence's son saved the Republic

If it weren't for his son, Pence would have gone along with TSF's plan.

https://crooksandliars.com/2023/11/we-can-thank-mike-pences-son-saving

[COL Mustard]

30. I did not know that.

I'm glad the junior Pence took his oath seriously. I wonder what Shady Vance will do on January 6, 2029?

[twodogsbarking]

2. Children can be so mean.

[Hugin]

3. We're back to phone calls again...

The notorious Bondi Belch on twoof so-called clearly demonstrates that TOFU’s tiny inadequate hands are unable to reliably send text messages. Again emphasizing that his text activities are performed by surrogates. Auto-pens, if you will.

One thing I have learned over the last excruciating decade is that an eruption of malfeasance and criminal activity instigated by the Chief Toddler is preceded immediately by a phone call.

For awhile I kept a yarn chart on the wall tracking it, it was so obvious. I finally took it down when it seemed that nobody was particularly interested and the process had woven a nice afghan I have thrown on the back of the couch.

[BattleRow]

12. I spit out my coffee..well played!

[Bayard]

4. Go directly to the top of the Enemies List,

And prepare to be prosecuted.

[Ol Janx Spirit]

5. The question now is: what are Democrats and Independents doing to prepare for Vance to...

...do exactly what Emperor Tangerine requires and refuse to certify the next presidential election when he or whatever Patheticon loses the popular vote by 70%....

There needs to be a plan and there needs to be a lot of attention and reminders brought to this scheme so that they can't pull it off in darkness. Too many people had no idea that this was the plan all along last time.

If that happens again it will be simple political malfeasance.

[BumRushDaShow]

7. "refuse to certify the next presidential election"

The "law" (if laws matter anymore) was changed to explicitly state that the VP has no role outside of "ceremonial" with respect to certifying the Electoral Count.

From here - https://protectdemocracy.org/work/understanding-the-electoral-count-reform-act-of-2022/

(snip)

Makes it absolutely clear that the Vice President’s role in the electoral vote-counting process is ministerial. [Section 109]

The 12th Amendment provides that, after they vote as part of the Electoral College, presidential electors must send certificates of their electoral votes to the president of the Senate (usually the vice president). But with respect to the vice president’s role during the counting process, the 12th Amendment says only that “[t]he President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted.” The original ECA designated the President of the Senate as the presiding officer when Congress meets on January 6. The statute assigned the presiding officer specific duties, such as “preserving order,” calling for objections, and announcing the results.

Contrary to arguments made during the last election, neither the 12th Amendment nor the ECA contemplated a role for the vice president — or any other presiding officer — that involves making substantive decisions about which electoral votes to count. That said, the law could have been explicit in order to foreclose any argument that the vice president has the power to decide the election.

Accordingly, the ECRA specifies that the vice president’s role in the process of counting electoral votes is limited to “ministerial duties” and that he or she has “no power to solely determine, accept, reject, or otherwise adjudicate or resolve disputes over the proper list of electors, the validity of electors, or the votes of electors.”

(snip)

[Ol Janx Spirit]

9. Thank you for the reminder! It was also true that Pence really had the same roll--which was the basis for his...

...refusal to go along--but they tried it anyway.

It does not put my mind at ease in the least....

The Republicans have a plan that will be more plausible this time--you can count on it. They also have a much more compliant and complicit congress and Supreme Court.

Democrats need a plan as well. Too much time has been spent by Democrats merely reacting to what Republicans and The Wizard of Ooze do on a daily basis.

[BumRushDaShow]

10. "Democrats need a plan as well."

Civil War.

[Ol Janx Spirit]

11. It's hard to even imagine what a modern-day civil war would look like between MAGA and everyone else...

...but with them being in charge of the most sophisticated military the world has ever known I am not a big fan of that as a plan at the moment.

I guess I was thinking about more of a PR and legal strategy.... Hearts and minds; you know?

[BumRushDaShow]

14. "I was thinking about more of a PR and legal strategy"

Right now, Warner Brothers/CNN has put themselves up for sale - Warner Bros. Discovery puts itself up for sale

That franchise includes HBO (and the old Cinemax which was rolled into HBO to be "HBO Max" ), Discovery Channel, and some other stuff.

Get all those "LIBERAL" BILLIONAIRES together to BUY THAT and then LIBERALS program them as our "P.R." outlet.

George Soros (his company) bought Audacy (radio including 200+ big and small radio stations nationally, streaming services, podcasts) last year and use THAT to also program.

From here - https://capitalresearch.org/article/charting-the-soros-audacy-acquisition/

(snip)

With over 200 radio stations under its umbrella, Audacy is the second-largest broadcaster in the United States.

According to the published decision, the licenses will be assigned to a newly reorganized Audacy, which itself will become part of a web of entities connected to billionaire megadonor George Soros and his son Alexander Soros. Conservatives have expressed concern over the Audacy acquisition, in part because the Soros network that will now ultimately control the company is one of the largest and most influential left-of-center philanthropic and political funding networks in the country.

(snip)

Right now, other than Audacy, WE OWN NO (BROADCAST) MEDIA.

[Ol Janx Spirit]

16. Even before social media history was not kind to powerful interests that had or took control over...

...the media of their day.

PR doesn't actually depend on controlling the media. We also live in a world where technologies change in very rapid order. Taking advantage of those changes is paramount.

Throw away the box. It's not worth thinking about at all....

[BumRushDaShow]

20. "PR doesn't actually depend on controlling the media."

It DOES because the media has set their OWN rules and THEY are the "megaphone", and those "rules" are to favor GOP loons.

When Democrats hold a press conference out on the steps of the U.S. Capitol, good luck finding any M$M covering it and if they do, they might give it a passing mention on their broadcasts or on their websites. The only ones who are pretty much guaranteed to cover them is CSPAN.

And when Democrats go on these podcasts to "message", DU whines about "click bait".

When Democrats spend millions on ads on various social media, DU whines about "I don't use 'social media' so since I didn't 'see it', it didn't happen and Democrats aren't 'messaging'.

What it takes for me each day going through over 3 dozen news sites to find stuff, is a case in point - much of it with fake "published" date time-stamps that appear days after the claimed publication date/time that I *know* weren't linked to on their sites at the purported date/times.

Sometimes we are our own worst enemy.

[Ol Janx Spirit]

28. "Sometimes we are our own worst enemy."

Absolutely the truth.

And thank you for everything you research and publish here. Your work is incredible.

I hope we can find ways to break through the obstacles in our way and hit on a message that resonates. It is endlessly frustrating to see messages of inclusion and advocacy for helping everyone that isn't already morbidly wealthy get swamped by messages of division and hate.

The one thing we can never do is stop trying.

[BumRushDaShow]

29. With thousands of OTA broadcast (TV/radio), satellite, cable and streaming channels

as well as piles of standalone gaming platforms, it is more and more difficult to reach people with a "message", let alone one that is "political". So it ends up that weeks before an election, there is a mass mobilization to get out a vote and then when the election is over, the engagement is ended... until the next election.

I think one way to get "messaging" in place is to do so in the schools - if anything, making sure that children are taught some kind of elementary "Civics", including actually learning about voting, and how that process works in their area. I know growing up, at least one of my lower schools was used for voting (they had the voting booths in the gym) and when they were setting up and testing the machines before elections, the kids were brought in to see how they operated (they were the old lever machines from the '40s or '50s, which ended being used all the way into the early '00s and I miss those ).

I think there have been studies about how children of parents who are dedicated voters, become dedicated voters themselves.

[Ol Janx Spirit]

31. I miss those old machines too. There was something fascinating about the mechanical nature of the whole...

...thing, and as a child you could sort of imagine a Rube Goldberg process going on behind the scenes--but that automatic curtain that closed when you pulled the big lever had to be most magical part of the voting experience for some odd reason. Maybe it is because it was such a symbol of the individual and solemn space voting was intended to be.

Humans, compared to other dominant land-animals, is a wholly unimpressive creature physically. No sharp claws or teeth; not particularly strong; very little defensive armor; a large unwieldy head with a large brain that demands a lot of calories; and not particularly fast on its gangly bipedal frame--but get several together and they had the ability to take down any prey.

Education was the key to this ability. Even very early humans had the exact same mental capacity as us late-stage humans. Far from being the simpletons we like to think they were, early humans navigated their world much like we do today from an intellectual viewpoint. Educating their young on everything from foraging to hunting--and later to agriculture. They invented powerful fictions that still have a profound impact on us today--including both religion and money.

It is the only real skill humans had that allowed them to come to dominate and later destroy the very planet that gave them life.

Everything good or bad we have ever done as a species has been the result of humans educating each other and future generations on every topic.

Republicans have attacked education for years to get where we are today, and you are 100% correct that education is our true path back to a better world.

[BattleRow]

13. Re:7 Has anyone broken the news to VP Vance?

[BumRushDaShow]

17. He's too busy taking vacations and humping couches to understand what it means.

[BattleRow]

18. Couch tater wanna be dick tater..

[BumRushDaShow]

21. But we know he is also a true hater.

[FakeNoose]

22. Wow ... BRDS what's gotten into you lately?

You are one tough lady!

[BumRushDaShow]

23. LOL

[Buddyzbuddy]

6. And that my friends is how the bloated bully

Last edited Sun Oct 26, 2025, 05:07 PM - Edit history (1)

has goaded, manipulated, and intimidated non compliant people within his sphere throughout his life.

Give them the personal touch, a personal phone call, an actual touch, "I'd consider this a personal favor for which I will owe you", pleading. And then the escalating insults custom tailored to each recipient intended to wound the ego as only he can imagine receiving. At last the threats, "I won't be your friend, anymore, I will cut off your money, I will raise your tariffs/taxes, I will send in my troops."

It's ironic, the action for which he called Pence a wimp was the bravest action Pence has probably ever taken. Some might say, he just did the job he was supposed to do, but he did it with the immediate threat from the most powerful person with a mad mob literally storming the gates.

Today's Republican "leaders" could learn a thing or two. Or, did they?

How about all of those billionaires? Have they been threatened? Are they scared or trying to take advantage while they can? They've suffered the slings and arrows of the public and are now committed to remaining the Felon's friend. They are now in charge of more multimedia than ever before and still acquiring more.

Our struggle will continue long after the worms have eaten away that vile flesh.

[Duppers]

8. 👏 Well stated.

[Buddyzbuddy]

15. Thank you.

[bluestarone]

24. One thing about pence though

I'm betting TSF will never go after him. HE knows way to much. (my opinion ofcourse)

[iemanja]

27. He doesn't even need to pardon himself

That’s what is so disgusting. Many of the things we are going through now wouldn’t be happening without that immunity ruling: destruction of the East Wing, extra-judicial bombings, ICE actions, and others.