IDF receives two bodies from Red Cross; Hamas claims to have returned all dead hostages it could find

[question everything]

Source: TimesofIsrael

Hamas transferred two caskets containing the apparent remains of two dead hostages on Wednesday night, as it claimed to have recovered the bodies of all the deceased captives “that it was able to reach.”

The caskets were collected by the Red Cross from Hamas in Gaza City, then transferred to IDF troops who brought them out of the Gaza Strip. Once in Israel, the caskets were inspected by the army, then draped in Israeli flags and honored in a brief ceremony led by a military rabbi.

Hamas did not identity the remains, similar to a day earlier, when one of the four bodies purported to be of dead hostages that it handed over was determined to be of a Palestinian. If the two bodies are confirmed to be hostages, Hamas would still be holding the remains of 19 dead hostages in Gaza.

But Hamas’s military wing claimed in the lead-up to the handover that it met its obligations under the US-backed ceasefire deal by returning all living hostages to Israel, and the bodies of all the dead captives “that it was able to reach.” “What remains of the bodies of hostages [that were not returned] — requires great effort and special equipment to search for, and we are making great efforts to resolve this issue,” it said.


Read more: https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-receives-two-bodies-from-red-cross-hamas-claims-to-have-returned-all-dead-hostages-it-could-find/

[mwmisses4289]

1. Well, that didn't take long.

Bye, bye ceasefire.

[Aussie105]

2. Seeing Hamas and the general Palestinian population can't find a lot of their own

in the blood stained rubble, not knowing or not being able to find some Israelis that were hostaged 2 years ago, is understandable.

Nice use of language though . . .

Palestinians held by Israel against their will are 'prisoners', not hostages.
Israelis held by Hamas against their will are 'hostages', not prisoners.

If that distinction escaped you, I know which side you are on.

For the record, I'm not on either side.
Just wish they'd stopped killing each other long ago.

[Glorious bastard]

3. If Hamas had no bodies of hostages to return, they signed a cease fire deal in bad faith.

They knew before signing they couldn’t deliver on it.

The over two thousand Palestinian prisoners, including 250 criminals serving life sentences for murder and terrorism, were detained and convicted in the course of due process of law. You may not like the process, and neither do I, but it doesn’t compare to abduction by force of innocent civilians to be held for no other purpose than extortion. Hence the distinction between hostages and prisoners.

If these distinctions escaped you, your claims of impartiality are rather disingenuous, and you know which side you are on.

[AloeVera]

4. Wrong again - as surely you know.

The 1,700 "prisoners" abducted from Gaza during the "war" not only did not get "due process of law" but were held without even any charges.

There were around 300 women and children among those released. There are still thousands of adult civilians in those torture camps, God help them.

The only "process" these innocent people were unfortunate enough to get was the systematic and systemic torture and abuse meted out to all Palestinian "prisoners" in the torture camps cynically named Israeli prisons.

The truth shall set you free so the saying goes, but not if you don't want to know the truth. Here goes, for others who might read it.

https://www.btselem.org/publications/202408_welcome_to_hell

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/07/israel-must-end-mass-incommunicado-detention-and-torture-of-palestinians-from-gaza/

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/07/israel-must-end-mass-incommunicado-detention-and-torture-of-palestinians-from-gaza/

Then there is this:

Israeli military database indicates only a quarter of Gaza detainees are fighters

Only one in four detainees from Gaza are identified as fighters by Israel’s military intelligence, classified data indicates, with civilians making up the vast majority of Palestinians held without charge or trial in abusive prisons.

Only one in four detainees from Gaza are identified as fighters by Israel’s military intelligence, classified data indicates, with civilians making up the vast majority of Palestinians held without charge or trial in abusive prisons.

Those jailed for long periods without charge or trial include medical workers, teachers, civil servants, media workers, writers, sick and disabled people and children.

Among the most egregious cases are those of an 82-year-old woman with Alzheimer’s jailed for six weeks and of a single mother separated from her young children. When the mother was released after 53 days she found the children begging on the streets.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/sep/04/israeli-military-database-indicates-only-a-quarter-of-gaza-detainees-are-fighters

[Glorious bastard]

6. How many of them were ambushed and abducted to be held for ransom and no other reason?

Surely not the 250 convicted murderers and terrorist!

Israel’s due process may suck, but it’s still due process.

Wait, don’t tell me, you didn’t know, right?

[Orrex]

12. Many of the hostages held by Israel received no trial

So you can abandon another of Netanyahu's talking points.

[Polybius]

20. I'm on the side that's not Hamas n/t

[maxsolomon]

5. Should Israel resume their bombing over corpses? Resume starving the populace?

Maybe Hamas could provide the locations of the collapsed buildings where the dead hostages were held.

[Glorious bastard]

7. Should we overlook Hamas' deceptions yet again and deflect to speculating about Israel instead?

[maxsolomon]

8. the idea that hostage bodies are unrecoverable below bombed buildings isn't outrageous.

Sure, Hamas could have been more honest about that.

i'm not speculating, i saying that corpses aren't a good reason to resume killing and starving gazans.

[Glorious bastard]

9. Corpses of hostages are a good enough reason to demand maximum pressure on Hamas to deliver what they

put their signatures on instead of engaging in extreme speculations. You are aware that between offering excuses for Hamas and expecting Israel to kill and starve Gazans there are a whole range of options that the international community and humanitarians of all colors can demand of Hamas. I don’t see this happening at all.

[maxsolomon]

10. To this point, "maximum pressure" has meant starving 2 million people, some to death.

I'd prefer that not resume.

This does not make me a Hamas apologist, FFS.

[Glorious bastard]

11. as per my post, maximum pressure on Hamas by the international community and humanitarians of all colors.

It appears you are determined to not consider this an option.

So be it. I’ve made my point.

[Orrex]

13. Other than Netanyahu's years-long campaign of deliberate civilian murder...

How, precisely, do you propose that the international community might put "maximum pressure" on the vile terrorist regime Hamas?

[Glorious bastard]

14. For one, condemn them at least as frequently as they do Israel

Even though Hamas deserves more condemnation.

Expose their lies as frequently as Hamas lies, and quit making excuses for them.

[Orrex]

15. How will that put pressure on Hamas? And who's making excuses for them?

Your answer sounds suspiciously like conflating Hamas and Palestinians in general, which is simply Netanyahu's propaganda machine at work.

And you can't claim that "Palestinians voted for this," because a majority of Palestinians were too young to vote in the last election.

But ok, sure. Let's expose Hamas' lies; they're a terrorist regime, after all, so I say to hell with them. What will be accomplished by exposing their lies?

[Glorious bastard]

16. You think it will not?

Do you think silence in the face of their atrocities does not empower and encourage them?

What is it in my answer that sounds suspiciously like conflating Hamas and Palestinians? What is it in my answer that sounds suspiciously at all? And what’s makes you think that I ever claimed “Palestinians voted for it”? The absence of any basis to your statements is pretty bizarre.

But let’s really expose Hamas’ lies, and let’s make the practice consistent: what specifically is objectionable about their terrorist regime, and what specifically makes you say to hell with them?

Try it and see what happens. I am pretty sure that if you alone do this, it will not make much difference. But if it is done as frequently, as consistently and as uncompromisingly by much of the people and institutions who remain silent and dismissive of Hamas’ atrocities now, you might be surprised how much it can accomplish.

[Orrex]

17. Seriously?

You think it will not?

Correct, I do not believe that it will. After all, Netanyahu's years-long campaign of deliberate civilian slaughter, costing tens of thousands of lives so far, hasn't brought Hamas to its knees; what on Earth makes you think that exposing their lies will do it?

What is it in my answer that sounds suspiciously like conflating Hamas and Palestinians?

Because in previous discussions on this subject, I have found that the pro-Israel cheerleaders tend to equate Hamas and Palestinians-at-large, because it's a convenient way for them to distract from Netanyahu's years-long campaign of deliberate civilian slaughter.

And what’s makes you think that I ever claimed “Palestinians voted for it”?

I didn't say that you did; I said that you can't. And I only mentioned it because others in these discussions frequently play that card when justifying Netanyahu's years-long campaign of deliberate civilian slaughter. I hoped to pre-empt a comment that I've heard many times over.

what specifically is objectionable about their terrorist regime, and what specifically makes you say to hell with them?

Are you seriously asking me what's objectionable about a terrorist regime? WTF? And I say "to hell with them" because I'd like them to go straight to Hell.

[Glorious bastard]

18. This is getting even more bizarre.

You do not believe that holding Hamas responsible will not work because Netanyahu hasn’t brought Hamas to its knees, not because holding Hamas universally accountable for its crimes has ever been tried and was shown to fail.

You cannot point to a single thing that could reasonably make you suspicious of me conflating Hamas with Palestinians (hint: answering a question that starts with “what specifically” by replying with “because” is by definition a wrong answer).

You said, and I quote: “Your answer sounds suspiciously like conflating Hamas and Palestinians in general, which is simply Netanyahu's propaganda machine at work.” Immediately before you said I can’t claim that "Palestinians voted for this," I never did, so what was the purpose of this statement? Why did you presume that I might make such claim, and what does it have to do with your suspicions?

I am seriously asking you to articulate in detail what specifically, rather than in general terms, makes you object to Hamas’ terrorist regime. Can you do so with the same frequency, consistently and in as much detail as you do in Israel’s case? For instance, what specifically makes Hamas Christofascist, or which terrorist acts can you cite? Surely you can do this! And once again, please don’t reply to a question that starts with “what” with an answer that starts with “because”. See above for the reason why.

[Orrex]

19. In an unsurprising move, you resort to mischaracterizing my position. Repeatedly.

You do not believe that holding Hamas responsible will not work because Netanyahu hasn’t brought Hamas to its knees, not because holding Hamas universally accountable for its crimes has ever been tried and was shown to fail.

That is not my position. My position is that "exposing their lies" won't deter Hamas from its actions, because "exposing their lies" will do nothing to hold them accountable. I asked you how to hold them accountable, and you gave a limp non-answer. If Netanyahu's years-long campaign of deliberate civilian slaughter hasn't shamed Hamas into defeat, the "exposing their lies" seems unlikely to do it.

I already answered your second question. Don't presume that you're the only voice on your side of the issue, or that my posts to you are intended only to address your views specifically.

I decline to re-answer your request that I justify condemnation of a terrorist regime. I have done so many times. I'm sorry that you're late to the discussion, but that's not my fault.

Also, I condemn Netanyahu for his years-long campaign of deliberate civilian slaughter because it's a clear act of wanton aggression that has expanded far beyond any bullshit justification that he and his apologists have offered. I condemn him as the beneficiary of hundred of billions of US tax dollars, using much of that to fund his campaign of slaughter. One would hope that a well-funded ally of the US would be held to a higher standard than a terrorist regime, but here we are.


You can reply or not; I've seen your shtick before, so I'm not inclined to take this further with you.

[Glorious bastard]

21. So much effort to avoid one simple question!

Can you not list any specific crimes that make Hamas objectionable to you?

There are many to choose from, get, time and again, you choose none to utter out loud. Anything and everything to avoid the unmentionable.

You rest my case.