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mahatmakanejeeves

(60,280 posts)
Tue Oct 8, 2024, 05:24 AM Oct 8

In landmark move, EPA requires removal of all U.S. lead pipes in a decade

Source: Washington Post

CLIMATE
In landmark move, EPA requires removal of all U.S. lead pipes in a decade

The rule finalized Tuesday, which could eliminate a toxic threat to American children, is projected to cost tens of billions of dollars.


Workers with East Bay Municipal Utility District install new water pipe in 2021 in Walnut Creek, Calif. (Justin Sullivan/Getty Images)

By Amudalat Ajasa and Silvia Foster-Frau
October 8, 2024 at 5:00 a.m. EDT

The Environmental Protection Agency finalized a rule Tuesday requiring water utilities to replace all lead pipes within a decade, a move aimed at eliminating a toxic threat that continues to affect tens of thousands of American children each year.

The move, which also tightens the amount of lead allowed in the nation's drinking water, comes nearly 40 years after Congress determined that lead pipes posed a serious risk to public health and banned them in new construction.

Research has shown that lead, a toxic contaminant that seeps from pipes into the drinking water supply, can cause irreversible developmental delays, difficulty learning and behavioral problems among children. In adults, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, lead exposure can cause increased blood pressure, heart disease, decreased kidney function and cancer.

{snip}

By Amudalat Ajasa
Amudalat Ajasa covers environmental health news for The Washington Post and writes about the ways air, water and chemical pollution impacts human health. She also covers extreme weather and its effects on communities.follow on X @AmudalatAjasa

By Silvia Foster-Frau
Silvia Foster-Frau writes for The Washington Post about the nation's emergence as a predominantly multicultural society, exploring its changing racial, ethnic and cultural demographics, and telling the stories of everyday Americans affected by and a part of such change.follow on X @SilviaElenaFF

Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-solutions/2024/10/08/epa-lead-pipe-removal-rule-drinking-water/

28 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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In landmark move, EPA requires removal of all U.S. lead pipes in a decade (Original Post) mahatmakanejeeves Oct 8 OP
K&R, it's past time we do this simple thing. Think. Again. Oct 8 #1
It's past time we do this, but... LisaM Oct 8 #3
yes, it's a big job, but ultimately, it's a plumbing job. Think. Again. Oct 8 #9
I'm not arguing with doing it. I think we should, and that it's overdue. But.. LisaM Oct 8 #10
Some communities started doing this long ago. Nt spooky3 Oct 8 #27
Link to fact sheet from the White House nitpicked Oct 8 #2
About time. Old Crank Oct 8 #4
Hey republicans, look... this creates jobs! mysteryowl Oct 8 #5
This! Blue_Roses Oct 8 #16
Side benefit...jobs for people who make, remove, and install pipes JT45242 Oct 8 #6
Long overdue and I remember fighting this battle moniss Oct 8 #7
It's not just the underground service lines, but all the piping within the home itself MichMan Oct 8 #13
Good point and again it's moniss Oct 8 #18
It about time. OldBaldy1701E Oct 8 #8
Just going from house to house doing inspections of all the pipes is a huge undertaking MichMan Oct 8 #11
I think the replacement only affects the water pipes up to the houses, not inside. AZCat Oct 8 #14
If that's the case, it will be ineffective, as people will still be affected by lead. MichMan Oct 8 #15
That's right, it doesn't solve the problem. AZCat Oct 8 #17
In Milwaukee the city inspectors moniss Oct 8 #19
This Article Goes Hand In Hand... GB_RN Oct 8 #12
Not all have just one decade. former9thward Oct 8 #20
A newborn could reach voting age before their water doesn't have dangerous lead levels. MichMan Oct 8 #22
tomorrow's headline: texas judge issues injunction on new EPA lead pipe rule maxsolomon Oct 8 #21
Newark's lead pipe scandal sparks comparisons to Flint water crisis MichMan Oct 8 #23
A federal judge has held the city of Flint, Michigan, in civil contempt MichMan Oct 8 #24
I wish these articles would go into more details. Scruffy1 Oct 8 #25
This program is for the service lines, including both the public and private side. AZCat Oct 8 #28
"Projected to cost tens of billions of dollars' TexasBushwhacker Oct 8 #26

LisaM

(28,375 posts)
3. It's past time we do this, but...
Tue Oct 8, 2024, 07:26 AM
Oct 8

I doubt that it's simple, and it's going to be the poorest, most remote areas that will be the hardest to access and fix.

I wholeheartedly applaud the initiative, but this seems like a massive undertaking that will run into a lot of unexpected roadblocks. I also think we are dealing with a spaghetti-like system that has been highly unregulated in the past.

So, let's do it, but I hope that it's handled correctly and with a degree of flexibility that (I think) will ultimately be required.

Think. Again.

(16,610 posts)
9. yes, it's a big job, but ultimately, it's a plumbing job.
Tue Oct 8, 2024, 07:48 AM
Oct 8

If we can't fix plumbing to keep our children healthy, then why are we even having children?

LisaM

(28,375 posts)
10. I'm not arguing with doing it. I think we should, and that it's overdue. But..
Tue Oct 8, 2024, 08:02 AM
Oct 8

I don't think it's simple and I think there will be unanticipated issues. Plumbing and pipefitting are amazing professions, and the people who do the jobs earn every penny, but as any plumber could tell you, it's difficult.

We also probably don't have enough union plumbers. One step in initiating this massive project would be a push to get an army of union plumbers ready to take it on. We can do this by putting money into trade schools and apprenticeship programs and invest in getting the next generation of plumbers ready to go.

I know several plumbers. They are incredibly hard workers and what they encounter at job sites is sometimes beyond description. Their job is full of hazards and surprises.

By all means, do this. Potable water is a right. I just think we need to realize the scope and complicatedness of the task. I hope the lawmakers who are mandating this are brainstorming with plumbers and pipe fitters.

Old Crank

(4,428 posts)
4. About time.
Tue Oct 8, 2024, 07:30 AM
Oct 8

Been a long time coming. Many water pipes are really old and need replacement. This should also reduce the leakage rate in the water system.

mysteryowl

(7,721 posts)
5. Hey republicans, look... this creates jobs!
Tue Oct 8, 2024, 07:31 AM
Oct 8

So more people are working at construction and manufacturing jobs, then that money goes back into the economy.
Plus, clean water. This is a good thing!

JT45242

(2,758 posts)
6. Side benefit...jobs for people who make, remove, and install pipes
Tue Oct 8, 2024, 07:39 AM
Oct 8

Health win.
Economic win.
Moral win.
Equity win.

So you know Paxton in Texas and Leonard Leo will try to get it to the sinister six to overturn.

moniss

(5,321 posts)
7. Long overdue and I remember fighting this battle
Tue Oct 8, 2024, 07:43 AM
Oct 8

40 years ago. If we had started on a total program then we would be done by now and at far lower cost both in money and in children's lives horribly affected. But because water pipes and sewer/stormwater systems are underground it's easy for those who fight against upgrading the systems to drag things on until the "out of sight out of mind" factor takes over.

moniss

(5,321 posts)
18. Good point and again it's
Tue Oct 8, 2024, 11:19 AM
Oct 8

"out of sight out of mind" for the most part. Household plumbing and electrical systems are ones that are most ignored as far as maintenance or upgrade since they are just usually perceived as pipes and wires without any thought to what is happening inside them, around them or at any junctions to other things like a circuit breaker box, appliance, outlets etc. and in the case of plumbing the water heater, pressure tank (in some cases), faucets, toilets, washers etc. The HVAC gets attention many times only when malfunctioning or hopefully at least the filters get changed.

Years ago when I was looking at buying an old house the realtors would tell me how the electrical system in that 80 year old house had been upgraded to 100 amp service. I would ask them to show me the new wiring and outlets and fixtures. They would show me the circuit breaker box proudly hanging on the basement wall. I would explain to them that simply doing that part of the electrical is not "upgrading the system" but was only a "part of the system". They would do the same for the plumbing system and show me the shiny new water heater and pressure tank (on a well system). I would ask about the pipes, the pump, the fixtures etc. and they would look at me with a blank or panicked look. Let alone the soil pipes. Most couldn't tell me anything about the septic system. But they all sure wanted me to write that check for the down-payment.

MichMan

(12,915 posts)
11. Just going from house to house doing inspections of all the pipes is a huge undertaking
Tue Oct 8, 2024, 08:05 AM
Oct 8

Checking out bathrooms, kitchens, basements and crawl spaces. Some tenants may not be very agreeable to allowing access.

Concerned that there will be rampant fraud with kickbacks, contracts to local cronies, and houses that don't even have lead pipes getting them "replaced" at taxpayer expense.

AZCat

(8,345 posts)
14. I think the replacement only affects the water pipes up to the houses, not inside.
Tue Oct 8, 2024, 08:14 AM
Oct 8

I'm trying to find this spelled out by either the EPA or the state equivalents right now, but I don't think any version of the Lead and Copper Rule includes replacing water pipes or fixtures inside people's homes. That's a whole other level of complexity on top of documenting and replacing pipes outside homes.

MichMan

(12,915 posts)
15. If that's the case, it will be ineffective, as people will still be affected by lead.
Tue Oct 8, 2024, 08:30 AM
Oct 8

If the goal is to reduce lead ppm values coming out of faucets to a tighter standard, replacing all the outside service lines only isn't going to achieve that.

For all the attention that Flint received, there were dozens and dozens of other cities that had lead levels higher than Flint that the media and politicians didn't give awareness to.

AZCat

(8,345 posts)
17. That's right, it doesn't solve the problem.
Tue Oct 8, 2024, 08:59 AM
Oct 8

It helps, because removal of any lead pipelines (or galvanized lines that have been contaminated by lead from upstream) reduces the risk of exposure.

But for those homes with lead plumbing fixtures (or fittings that were sealed with lead) there is still risk. And I suspect those homes are overwhelmingly inhabited by people without the means to replace that plumbing on their own.

moniss

(5,321 posts)
19. In Milwaukee the city inspectors
Tue Oct 8, 2024, 11:34 AM
Oct 8

would go into houses in poorer neighborhoods and they would see windowsills where kids had gnawed on the paint. Little kids are known to teethe on anything available. Baby cribs too. Everybody knew it was lead based paint but some of the big paint manufacturers were right in Wisconsin and had big political pull. So it just went along with maybe a pamphlet or two mailed out once in awhile talking about not letting the kids chew the paint. Every effort at comprehensive exposure reduction has always been opposed/watered down by the GQP in Wisconsin.

In common conversation I used to hear the average GQP voter say things like "I shouldn't have to pay to do that stuff. "Those" people choose to live there and so that's on them." The ignorance I've heard over the many years hasn't gotten a whole lot better. People were just sometimes a little more hesitant to say it. Until the Orange Ruski came along and made it "O.K." for them and now I hear the ignorance more openly and delivered with more intensity.

GB_RN

(3,032 posts)
12. This Article Goes Hand In Hand...
Tue Oct 8, 2024, 08:08 AM
Oct 8

With this one on Daily Kos: Why Is Gen X So Trumpy?

Looks like lead caused a significant portion of us X-ers to have IQ scores 6 or 7 points lower than they should have had.

Hell, I know a couple people from back in my school days who I would swear ate paint chips. Dumber than a dozen bags of hammers, with boxes rocks added in.

maxsolomon

(34,763 posts)
21. tomorrow's headline: texas judge issues injunction on new EPA lead pipe rule
Tue Oct 8, 2024, 12:27 PM
Oct 8

headline next year: SCOTUS rules EPA cannot issue rules.

MichMan

(12,915 posts)
23. Newark's lead pipe scandal sparks comparisons to Flint water crisis
Tue Oct 8, 2024, 01:23 PM
Oct 8
Newark, New Jersey‘s once-celebrated Lead Line Replacement Program, hailed as a model for national infrastructure reform, now faces scrutiny amid allegations of fraud — inviting unavoidable comparisons to the devastating Flint, Michigan water crisis. In both cities, promises to fix critical water infrastructure were undermined by systemic failures, raising concerns about oversight, accountability and the long-term health risks to residents.

At the heart of the Newark scandal are allegations against JAG Group Enterprises, a construction firm tasked with replacing the city’s lead pipes. According to NBC New York, CEO Michael Sawyer and Foreperson Latronia Sanders scammed the city out of $10 million by submitting false documentation and deceiving city inspectors into believing work had been completed. Just as Flint residents were misled by officials about the safety of their water, Newark’s program — intended to safeguard public health — became a vehicle for corruption.


https://rollingout.com/2024/10/07/newarks-lead-pipe-scandal-flint-crisis/

MichMan

(12,915 posts)
24. A federal judge has held the city of Flint, Michigan, in civil contempt
Tue Oct 8, 2024, 01:29 PM
Oct 8
A federal judge has held the city of Flint, Michigan, in civil contempt for failing to meet deadlines imposed last year in a court order outlining steps to replace lead service lines that contributed to city residents being exposed to dangerously high levels of lead.

The ruling Tuesday comes nearly seven years after the city entered into a settlement agreement, which included a commitment to replace the lead lines to Flint residences by 2020 and to repair property damage to sidewalks, curbs and driveways caused by the work.

The city, however, has repeatedly failed to meet deadlines, prompting US Judge David Lawson to issue an order finding the city had not complied with a February 2023 order to enforce the agreement, citing evidence presented at a June court hearing and in subsequent filings.

“Based on the evidence, it is apparent that the City has failed to abide by the Court’s orders in several respects, and that it has no good reason for its failures,” Lawson wrote.


https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/14/us/flint-michigan-lead-pipes-court-contempt/index.html

Scruffy1

(3,409 posts)
25. I wish these articles would go into more details.
Tue Oct 8, 2024, 01:43 PM
Oct 8

The picture on it shows a water main, which were never made of lead. Where lead was used was in the pipe from the main to the house. I had a 1918 house in Minneapolis that had copper service pipe, but in some places lead was used much later. I'm guessing the utilities are replacing the line from the main to the house with the money from the infrastructure act. These lines do not belong to the utilities but to the homeowner. This would be fairly easy in El Paso because our waterlines are generally only about a foot deep. In Minnesota they are about 4 feet so it involves a lot more work. But anyway it's great it's getting done.

AZCat

(8,345 posts)
28. This program is for the service lines, including both the public and private side.
Tue Oct 8, 2024, 02:31 PM
Oct 8

So utilities are supposed to be inventorying and replacing lead and galvanized lines that have been contaminated by lead between the mains and the buildings (but not the inside plumbing). At least some money is available from the infrastructure act, but this set of changes (the "2024 Lead and Copper Rule Improvements&quot removes some of the language requiring both the public and private sides to be replaced because the logistics of that depend on each states authorization for the utilities to work on the portion that isn't public property.

TexasBushwhacker

(20,622 posts)
26. "Projected to cost tens of billions of dollars'
Tue Oct 8, 2024, 01:44 PM
Oct 8

Perhaps the headline should read "Projected to save hundreds of millions of dollars in better IQ scores, fewer learning disabilities and better worker productivity". Perception is EVERYTHING!

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