The Dutch defense minister says the US has approved the delivery of F-16 fighter jets to Ukraine

[BumRushDaShow]

Source: AP

THE HAGUE, Netherlands (AP) — The United States has given its approval for the Netherlands to deliver F-16s to Ukraine, the Dutch defense minister said Friday, in a major gain for Kyiv even though the fighter jets won’t have an immediate impact on the almost 18-month war

“I welcome the US decision to clear the way for delivery of F-16 jets to Ukraine. It allows us to follow through on the training of Ukrainian pilots,” Dutch Defense Minister Kajsa Ollongren said in a message on X, formerly known as Twitter. “We remain in close contact with European partners to decide on the next steps.”

Ukraine has long pleaded for the sophisticated fighter to give it a combat edge. It recently launched a long-anticipated counteroffensive against the Kremlin’s forces without air cover, placing its troops at the mercy of Russian aviation and artillery.

Apart from delivering the warplanes, Ukraine’s allies also need to train its pilots. Washington says the F-16s, like the advanced U.S. Abrams tanks, will be crucial in the long term as Kyiv faces down Russia. The Netherlands is part of a Western coalition that also includes Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Luxembourg, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Sweden and the United Kingdom that in July pledged to train Ukrainian pilots to fly F-16s.

Read more: https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-moscow-drones-8268c5de812e5d852cc28443a00123f7

[doc03]

1. It is about time. nt

[Happy Hoosier]

2. We're probably a year away....

From Ukraine getting and using F-16's.

There's lots to do.... Pilot and ground crew training. Weapons handling.

Anything beyond the most basic Maintenence will probably neccesitate support in Poland or another F-16 using nation for a bit. It's a complicated jet.

[BumRushDaShow]

4. Well one thing that was different with this story

is that the countries mentioned in the OP excerpt have offered to train over where they are in Europe. The U.S. had been waiting for training plans by its allies and it appears this article might be confirming that those have been received. It's also suggested that preliminary training had been underway earlier, and now 8 who are fluent in English have been identified and selected.

[Happy Hoosier]

5. There are some other issues currently in discussion.

I may or may not have some insight into this issue. Let's just say that the issue has been under discussion for some time, and it's been coming together for a while. The exact shape is, AFAIK, yet to be dtermined.

If the Dutch announcment is accurate, it's a significant step, but there are a lot of steps between where we are and where we want them to be before we allow them to take F-16's into combat. I know we very much want to ensure to that if they are used, they are used effectively, and not just thrown into situations where they will be rapidly lost.

[BumRushDaShow]

7. Oh sure

I know I have been posting on and off about this from back when the subject was first broached. One of the biggest issues was that all the instruments were in English. So right there, that would narrow the number of pilots who could be selected to train on it because it would be too time and resource intensive to translate everything in the cockpit.

These pilots were originally trained on MiGs, so that is their starting point. They know a pilot's "basics" but they would have to be trained on all the nuances of the F-16. I had looked at a couple training videos on the F-16 during the early spring and just found this video that was uploaded today by NBC -

Even with the 2 generals saying outright that the pilots "need to be proficient in English", that fact just blew over the reporter's head.

[Happy Hoosier]

8. Quite so... Fortunately....

... in my experience, most educated Ukrainians (which include most pilots) know at least some English, and quite a few are more or less fluent.

One challenge for them is learning that our instrumentation is in IMPERIAL units. SOME systems use metric, but most of the displays are in Imperial units. 'Cuz 'Murica.

A bigger challenge is ground and maintenence crews, which will tend to be less educated and most will not know English well. But mostly what I'm hearing is that the ground creews will be trained in basic ops and any serious maintenence (requiring access to manuals, for example), would be performed by contractors in safer locations.

[BumRushDaShow]

11. Exactly. The metric thing is a big issue

Hell... as a retired labby, I had to go back and forth between all kinds of systems of units all the time.

I think for "maintenance", they are surrounded by NATO countries that have F-16s (the closest probably being Poland). So it would logistically be a little easier to bring in crews (on contract if necessary) from there.

From what I understand, there were recommendations bandied about by our NATO allies of them providing their F-16s to Ukraine and then the U.S. "back fills" to replace. At least in that case, the jets would have already been flown/tested/burned in/maintained/tweaked vs something right off the assembly line.

One of the articles I had looked at mentioned that there were 20 Ukrainians identified who had some English proficiency and they could be brought up to speed (over time obviously) to join in.

[hueymahl]

12. Which is exactly why this is a disturbing escalation

It is going to take the active input of neighboring countries to keep these things flying. As bad as this war is, we do not want it spreading.

[herding cats]

3. Better late than never.

I understand why the delay from a geopolitical standpoint, but it's hard when you look at the cruel destruction and loss of life in Ukraine.

[2live is 2fly]

6. I've heard a lot about the A10 having great capabilities near perfect for type situations in Ukraine

I suppose these must mean in a close ground support role. There's also the fact that our military plans to phase-out the A10 in the close future meaning a number should be available rather soon. I'm not a military guy however I am an arm-chair expert in practically everything. LoL Seriously tho, the eventual procurment of the F-16 and (possiblY) A-10, would give our Ukrainian brothers & sisters the means with which to Rule Their own Airspace and end this horrible suffering.

[Happy Hoosier]

9. The A-10's day has passed.

It's too vulnerable to modern MANPADS. There's a reason te USAF is looking towards other solutions for CAS. Lots of folks think it's because the USAF is only interested in AtA combat, but there is a pretty serious culture among the ground support pilots. And even the Hog pilots I know are saying it's at or near the end of its useful life, even with the US's remarkable ability to control teh skies and suppress enemy air defenses.

[BlueWavePsych]

10. Kick

[republianmushroom]

13. I like it

[Bayard]

14. About time

This should be a game changer, even if it takes awhile.