Trump hit with sweeping indictment in alleged effort to overturn 2020 election
Last edited Tue Aug 1, 2023, 08:04 PM - Edit history (4)
Source: ABC News
Former President Donald Trump, bent on staying in power, undertook a sweeping "criminal scheme" to overturn the results of the 2020 election, including repeatedly pushing lies about the results despite knowing his claims were false, and doubling down on those falsehoods as the Jan. 6 riot raged, a sweeping federal indictment alleges.
This is the third indictment faced by the former president, who -- as the Republican frontrunner in the 2024 presidential race -- continues to insist that the vote was rigged.
Prosecutors say the alleged scheme, which they say involved six unnamed co-conspirators, included enlisting a slate of so-called "fake electors" targeting several states; using the Justice Department to conduct "sham election crime investigations"; enlisting the vice president to "alter the election results"; and doubling down on false claims as the Jan. 6 riot ensued -- all in an effort to subvert democracy and stay in power.
The six alleged co-conspirators include several attorneys and a Justice Department official. The sweeping indictment, based on the investigation by special counsel Jack Smith, charges Trump with four felony counts: conspiracy to defraud the United States, conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding, obstruction of and attempt to obstruct an official proceeding, and conspiracy against rights.
Read more: https://abcnews.go.com/US/trump-indicted-charges-related-efforts-overturn-2020-election/story?id=101612810
LINK TO INDICTMENT - https://www.scribd.com/document/662462402/Trump-Indictment#
(PDF) - https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23893878/trump-dc-indictment.pdf


Article updated.
Previous article/headlines -
Prosecutors say the alleged scheme, which allegedly involved six unnamed co-conspirators, included enlisting a slate of so-called "fake electors" targeting several states, using the Justice Department to conduct "sham election crime investigations," enlisting the vice president to "alter the election results." and doubling down on false claims as the Jan. 6 riot ensued.
The six alleged co-conspirators include several attorneys and a Justice Department official. The sweeping indictment, based on the investigation by special counsel Jack Smith, charges Trump with four felony counts: conspiracy to defraud the United States, conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding, obstruction of and attempt to obstruct an official proceeding, and conspiracy against rights.
The indictment alleges that Trump knew that the claims he advanced about the election, specifically in Arizona and Georgia, were false -- yet he repeated them for months. "Despite having lost, the Defendant was determined to remain in power," the indictment reads. "So for more than two months following election day on November 3, 2020, the Defendant spread lies that there had been outcome-determinative fraud in the election and that he had actually won."
The alleged conspiracies include enlisting a slate of so-called "fake electors" targeting several states, using the Justice Department to conduct "sham election crime investigations," enlisting the vice president to "alter the election results." and doubling down on false claims as the Jan. 6 riot ensued.
The indictment alleges that Trump knew that the claims he advanced about the election, specifically in Arizona and Georgia, were false -- yet he repeated them for months. There are also six unnamed co-conspirators, including multiple attorneys and a Justice Department official.
"Despite having lost, the Defendant was determined to remain in power," the indictment reads. "So for more than two months following election day on November 3, 2020, the Defendant spread lies that there had been outcome-determinative fraud in the election and that he had actually won."
Former President Donald Trump has been indicted on charges related to special counsel Jack Smith's probe into efforts to overturn the 2020 election.
Trump has been charged with four counts: conspiracy to defraud the United States, conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding, obstruction of and attempt to obstruct an official proceeding, and conspiracy against rights. There are also six unnamed co-conspirators.
It marks the third time the former president has been indicted on criminal charges, following his indictment last month in the special counsel's probe into his handling of classified materials after leaving office, and his indictment in April on New York state charges of falsifying business records in connection with a hush money payment made to adult film actress Stormy Daniels.
Trump, who has decried the probes as political witch hunts, pleaded not guilty to all charges in both those cases. In the history of the country, no president or former president had ever been indicted prior to Trump's first indictment in April.
Original article/headline -
Former President Donald Trump has been indicted on charges related to special counsel Jack Smith's probe into efforts to overturn the 2020 election, sources with direct knowledge tell ABC News.
It marks the third time the former president has been indicted on criminal charges, following his indictment last month in the special counsel's probe into his handling of classified materials after leaving office, and his indictment in April on New York state charges of falsifying business records in connection with a hush money payment made to adult film actress Stormy Daniels.
Trump, who has decried the probes as political witch hunts, pleaded not guilty to all charges in both those cases. In the history of the country, no president or former president had ever been indicted prior to Trump's first indictment in April.
Trump was informed by Smith on July 16 that he was a target in the election probe, in a letter that sources said mentioned three federal statutes: conspiracy to commit offense or to defraud the United States, deprivation of rights under a civil rights statute, and tampering with a witness, victim or an informant.

Mysterian
(5,979 posts)Lock his stupid ass up.
ShazzieB
(21,714 posts)







































electric_blue68
(24,144 posts)Cha
(314,797 posts)J6 2020!
gademocrat7
(11,676 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(36,631 posts)lastlib
(26,809 posts)YES!! FAR OUT!! THANK YOU, GOD AND JACK SMITH!!!
lastlib
(26,809 posts)...since Nixon announced his resignation! (almost 49 years (to the day) ago!) - - - - - -
BTW, LOVE Jill Wine-Bank's pin!! - - -
- - -
- - -
electric_blue68
(24,144 posts)You'll see why I is laffing mucho besides the obvious occasion.
Me, my sis, and one of our cousin's were at a C,S,N & Y Concert in NJ.
Sooo many people including me were carrying radios from transistors to the medium size portable precursor (10" x "8) to the future boom box.
Concert started up. Maaaaybe half, two-thirds through at the end of a song some one comes running up to ?Stills, or Crosby and says something.
Then one of them steps up to the mic, and announces,
"Nixon's resigned!".
OMG! Joyous giddiness, whoops, yells, arrn waving etc break out in abandon!
Eventually we get back to the show.
Now, I don't know whether they were doing this at the end of the show anyway, or brought them along just in case ~ but they set off fireworks at the end, and everyone went happily crazy again! 😄😄😄
I'd add bc I was at both '08, and '12 MSNBC's Presidential
Election Countdown at Rockefeller Center - that Obama's Election, and then Reelection was just as giddy with joy! It was Soooo great!
BigmanPigman
(53,978 posts)
rubbersole
(10,672 posts)



Oopsie Daisy
(6,670 posts)riversedge
(78,209 posts)1 min ago
JUST IN: Donald Trump has been indicted in special counsels 2020 election interference probe
https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-2020-election-probe-08-01-23/index.html
From CNN's Tierney Sneed and Devan Cole
Former President Donald Trump has been indicted by a federal grand jury in special counsel Jack Smiths investigation into efforts to overturn the 2020 election leading up to the January 6, 2021, attack on the US Capitol, according to a court document.
This is the third time Trump has been criminally indicted. Smith charged Trump in the classified documents probe in June, and a Manhattan grand jury charged the former president for business fraud in March.
Trump, who is running for president in 2024, pleaded not guilty in both cases.
Wild blueberry
(7,932 posts)Hurray!
MontanaMama
(24,553 posts)
ancianita
(42,131 posts)6 NAMED CO-CONSPIRATORS, INCLUDING ATTORNEYS, JUSTICE DEPT OFFICIAL, POLITICAL CONSULTANT
ancianita
(42,131 posts)ShazzieB
(21,714 posts)ancianita
(42,131 posts)RussBLib
(10,234 posts)Save me the search
ancianita
(42,131 posts)
Kid Berwyn
(22,077 posts)Trump is toast.
ancianita
(42,131 posts)Well then let's eat 'im!
iluvtennis
(21,375 posts)ancianita
(42,131 posts)iluvtennis
(21,375 posts)onetexan
(13,913 posts)
Cha
(314,797 posts)BumRushDaShow
(161,259 posts)ancianita
(42,131 posts)On April 26, 2019, Chutkan sentenced Maria Butina to 18 months in prison for conspiring to be an unregistered agent of the Russian government in the United States.[25][26]
On November 9, 2021, Chutkan denied former President Donald Trump's plea to keep records from being released to the House Select Committee investigating the attack on the Capitol on January 6, 2021.[31][32] The D.C. Circuit affirmed that decision, and the U.S. Supreme Court declined review.[33]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanya_S._Chutkan
When Jack Smith focuses on speed, he's got the right DC federal judge! I'm going with Jill Wine Banks, who thinks the trial will start in November.

BumRushDaShow
(161,259 posts)She handled that Russian NRA-hugging spy Maria Butina!
Thank you for that additional background info!
ancianita
(42,131 posts)defendants to sentences longer than the government had requested!
She won't entertain delay, will turn down motions, will overrule objections from defense, and will give strong instructions to the Jan 6 jury. She KNOWS what she's about.
BumRushDaShow
(161,259 posts)can give a mean side eye.
(Rachel is actually ticking off some things about her now as I post)
Deminpenn
(17,028 posts)She knows well the rights of defendents.
Joinfortmill
(19,082 posts)AZ8theist
(6,915 posts)Doturd could have continued his criminal life screwing over contractors, banks, employees, laundered Russian money while golfing every day and no one would have cared.
But NO! He had to run for President because of his narcissism. And now he's screwed.
The idiot is MONUMENTALLY STUPID.
speak easy
(12,421 posts)but would yugely buttress his 'brand' at home and overseas.
ExWhoDoesntCare
(4,741 posts)Malignant narcissists never, ever entertain the idea of failure. Not in any form. It's literally impossible for any of them to think it.
He was sure he would win because he truly believes that the entire world worship and adores him. Those of us who oppose him? Well, we don't really--we know we love him, too, and we're just jealous.
This is really how they think.
As long as you don't face that reality, you are vulnerable to falling under the thrall of at least one of them.
InstantGratification
(384 posts)Stop thinking of his narcissism as merely an undesirable personality trait, it is a pathology. He has a disease that molds his every thought and action. He can never accept that a failure is his own fault, there is always something or someone else he blames.
Once you view his actions through that lens, he becomes much easier to understand.
Lonestarblue
(12,957 posts)I think it was Eric who said the Trump Organization got all the money it needed from Russia. Threats to turn off the money spigot when Trump knew he could not easily borrow elsewhere at that time would have been a powerful motivator for him. Putin may also have promised that he would see to it that he won. Well never fully know what effect Russian hackers and disinformation campaigns had on the election.
ExWhoDoesntCare
(4,741 posts)He didn't need Putin egging him on. He'd only tried it multiple times before that.
So many people here overthink what this guy is about. He's not at all difficult to understand. Get this through your heads:
****HE WANTED TO BE POTUS****
First of all, nobody runs run for it multiple times unless they want it--and bad.
Second--and most important: He wanted it more than he wanted anything in his entire miserable life. Every malignant narcissist wants that office because they crave the constant attention it demands. It is the very oxygen they breathe. So if presented with the chance to have the entire world's eyes on them, hour after hour, day after day--?
Are you kidding? No malignant narcissist is passing up a chance for that.
BlueIn_W_Pa
(842 posts)This is all Trump
AZ8theist
(6,915 posts)If so, you have no idea what you're talking about.
The Russian mob laundered money through his properties for years, perhaps decades.
Russian government = Russian mob = Russian government.
BlueIn_W_Pa
(842 posts)nor what happened with the insurrection. This is 100% Trump and his minions.
AZ8theist
(6,915 posts)DID CONSPIRE WITH RUSSIA.
READ THE MUELLER REPORT.
This is not rocket surgery.
former9thward
(33,424 posts)Mueller? AG Garland? What actual law enforcement authority has made those charges?
AZ8theist
(6,915 posts)Doturd has been committing crimes with Russians for DECADES and nothing has been done.
But to parrot the Doturd line "Russia, Russia, Russia" is asinine.
MorbidButterflyTat
(3,736 posts)is parroting Jan Brady.
Why doesn't anyone tell him?
3auld6phart
(1,633 posts)He had it all. Narcissism is a mental sickness. It is stilll sticking to him, like shit on an army blanket.he will go to maker still thinking he can do no wrong. By the way his demise is taking
far to long. Please, you GD bucket of orange puke, leave this Vale of tears NOW!!! Bevfore you.and your mush brained idiot followers destroy the USA completely. He knows he is a grifter and a cheat, he doesnt care about any body except himself.
Maeve
(43,308 posts)Bengus81
(9,490 posts)Lock that POS up and never let him out............
iluvtennis
(21,375 posts)
wnylib
(25,325 posts)





Evolve Dammit
(21,267 posts)Did that cross any criminal statutes? 1.2 million dead. Just wondering what his spewage cost us.
Backseat Driver
(4,671 posts)Go get him! Flight risk! LOCK HIS TRAITOROUS ASS UP!
Playingmantis
(467 posts)Jail him until trial..
Marthe48
(22,010 posts)n/t
Deminpenn
(17,028 posts)Agree with Weissman on MSNBC that Smith is making this case tightly focused on Trump. The co-conspirators can be charged later or separately.
Marthe48
(22,010 posts)TomSlick
(12,745 posts)If I was Trump's lawyer (God forbid) that's what I would assume.
If this is correct, Trump's "stuff" is in the street.
ON EDIT: Happy Smithmas - again.
Deminpenn
(17,028 posts)Last edited Wed Aug 2, 2023, 02:57 AM - Edit history (1)
1 Rudy Giuliani
2 Eastman
3 Sydney Powell
4 Jeffrey Clark
5 Ken Chessboro
6 Navarro?
I could see Giuliani cooperating given he's already had a proffer session, but the others seem unlikely.
TomSlick
(12,745 posts)The threat of prison time often makes people find religion.
The other option is a grant of use immunity and forcing them to testify.
Deminpenn
(17,028 posts)Smith said during his brief presser that the GJ is still working.
TomSlick
(12,745 posts)I would be hesitant to charge co-conspirators in the existing case for fear of more delay.
I'm still expecting some cooperators.
Deminpenn
(17,028 posts)co-conspirator number 6?
lillypaddle
(9,605 posts)

Roc2020
(1,724 posts)
riversedge
(78,209 posts)BREAKING: CNN confirms that DONALD TRUMP is the person who just got indicted by Special Counsel Jack Smiths federal grand jury for trying to steal Bidens win.
There are FOUR counts in the indictment.
1: Conspiracy to defraud the United States.
2. Conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding.
3. Attempt to obstruct an official proceeding.
4. Conspiracy against rights.
Its official. Trump is going to prison for a VERY LONG TIME.
Pop the champagne, folks!🍾🥂
Link to tweet
?s=20
SomewhereInTheMiddle
(572 posts)... but if convicted, will any of those charges preclude him from continuing his presidential run and/or keep him out of office if elected?
Him getting elected in 2024 then pardoning himself in 2025 is my worst-case scenario (barring all out Armageddon).
I am happy this happened. I am just not yet ready to celebrate.
Mr.Bill
(24,906 posts)for when I hear four words from a judge. "Bailiff, take him away".
bahboo
(16,953 posts)ColinC
(11,098 posts)Torchlight
(5,808 posts)It will be hard to remove the stain, but elbow grease, patience, and the right vinegar will do it every time.
Roc2020
(1,724 posts)but as an American, this is a sad day for the country. Honestly, I never dreamed Trump would turn out to be such a wicked person and the most horrid President ever.
barbtries
(30,802 posts)i watched him going down the escalator. i never imagined it would be this bad or that so many people would be sucked into his cult.
Roc2020
(1,724 posts)from a lot of people.
barbtries
(30,802 posts)not that i didn't vote for her, but that i didn't see her clearly for the great, wise woman she is. I guess i supported everyone else until she won the nomination and I am sorry for that. I actually regret it, and I try not to have a lot of regret.
I'm sorry Hillary, you would have and should have been an absolutely GREAT president.
She was literally right about everything, including a vast right wing conspiracy and a basketful of deplorables. not to mention russia and trump.
Evolve Dammit
(21,267 posts)
yardwork
(68,196 posts)I've known that Trump was a horrid person since the 1980s. I've known he was a traitorous fool since before the 2016 election. I'm grateful things aren't worse.
J_William_Ryan
(3,049 posts)Trumps trial wont be held in a red state presided over by a corrupt Trump-appointed judge.
onetexan
(13,913 posts)NoSheep
(8,306 posts)
Hassler
(4,566 posts)orangecrush
(26,942 posts)
Novara
(6,115 posts)LiberalFighter
(53,544 posts)Deminpenn
(17,028 posts)He was the guy, after all, who introduced Jeffrey Clark to Trump. DoJ also seized his phone. If there's a congressman who was a key player in the plot to use DoJ to overturn the election results, it's him.
SergeStorms
(19,801 posts)But republicans still believe it's all "politically motivated". 🙄
They used to wrongfully boast about being the "law and order" party. Well, this (among a myriad of other examples) blows that meme right the hell out of the water.
They're the party of organized crime now.
Shermann
(8,970 posts)...there's a greater than 50% chance the guy in the White House is in a different political party.
So, optics are weak evidence. What else they got?
onetexan
(13,913 posts)





SergeStorms
(19,801 posts)Yes, what a gift. I bet you'll remember this gift over any other in your lifetime.
onetexan
(13,913 posts)Today is a great day for the country. Glad to see the rule of law in action, finally
Thanks SergeStorms
SergeStorms
(19,801 posts)I hope for many, many more birthdays for you.
electric_blue68
(24,144 posts)onetexan
(13,913 posts)Novara
(6,115 posts)Oh, this is the BEST day ever!
SergeStorms
(19,801 posts)If that doesn't rev-up the racist in Trump, nothing will.
I don't want to hear about any of his tweets, or truths, or whatever they're called, after this news hits his racist eardrums.
Novara
(6,115 posts)electric_blue68
(24,144 posts)llmart
(16,931 posts)I remember some post I did a few years ago where I said it would be women that take this wart on society down and I added I hoped it would be a black woman. He's actually scared to death of strong women. Most bullies are.
Novara
(6,115 posts)80% of the sentences have been less than the DOJ's recommendations.
Except for Judge Chutkan. She has imposed sentences as harsh or harsher.
I also said it would be women - and especially Black women - who would take him down. They don't generally put up with bullshit. We also have Letitia James and Fani Willis willing to do what's right for the rule of law.
Botany
(75,475 posts)I'll obviously hustle to help on all fronts, but it's tough to own any of this when it's all just conspiracy shit beamed down from the mothership."
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218139760
Wonder Why
(6,236 posts)have him appearing in court somewhere else.
Auggie
(32,593 posts)Marthe48
(22,010 posts)I heard 70 charges the other day. But 7 indictments?
Orrex
(66,147 posts)I usually summarize by saying indicted many more times than all other presidents combined.
BumRushDaShow
(161,259 posts)Marthe48
(22,010 posts)
BumRushDaShow
(161,259 posts)
Solly Mack
(95,823 posts)Upthevibe
(9,839 posts)Botany
(75,475 posts)"Former President Donald Trump has been indicted on charges related to special counsel Jack Smith's probe into efforts to overturn the 2020 election, sources with direct knowledge tell ABC News."
bucolic_frolic
(52,647 posts)and force him to obey the rule of law.
Marthe48
(22,010 posts)And this is why I will never vote for an r, or any issue an r backs. None of us on DU need to hold our breath waiting for r senators and r representatives to withdraw their support of the slimy traitor.
Hassler
(4,566 posts)electric_blue68
(24,144 posts)electric_blue68
(24,144 posts)AverageOldGuy
(3,036 posts)I've started celebrating with gin and tonic already!!!!!
Lonestarblue
(12,957 posts)crickets
(26,158 posts)bluescribbler
(2,401 posts)








AverageOldGuy
(3,036 posts)This was copied from DU:
New York Attorney General Letitia James' office says it is ready to proceed with a trial stemming from its $250 million lawsuit claiming former President Donald Trump, two of his children and his company engaged in widespread fraud. "The case is ready for trial," wrote Kevin Wallace, senior enforcement counsel for the office, in a filing Monday.
Poor old Trump!!! Everyone is piling on!!! And DA Willis in Georgia is just waiting for the dust to die down then SHE'S GOING TO KICK HIS ASS!!!!







BumRushDaShow
(161,259 posts)Nululu
(1,109 posts)Hooray. Glad to see.
AverageOldGuy
(3,036 posts). . . would be for Melania to sue the sonofabitch for divorce!!!!!
electric_blue68
(24,144 posts)Scrivener7
(57,374 posts)flamingdem
(40,698 posts)
jmowreader
(52,692 posts)Specifically, he hasn't yet been hit with any riot-related charges. This means the federal indictments haven't stopped coming. Plus, Georgia hasn't filed charges against him, and they will.
Pay particular heed: because of the Separate Sovereigns doctrine, each of the seven states he attempted a false-elector scheme in is completely free to file in state court against him.
IrishAfricanAmerican
(4,333 posts)
J_William_Ryan
(3,049 posts)The first time a former president has been subject to a Federal indictment for crimes committed while in office.
A powerful and significant legal precedent has been established.
liberal N proud
(61,149 posts)

tonekat
(2,378 posts)Or, whatever malignant entity it is that rustles in his chest cavity.
yaesu
(8,622 posts)bluestarone
(20,443 posts)






























Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(129,428 posts)
Shoonra
(602 posts)Trump's indictment tonight means that tomorrow morning's FOX AND FRIENDS will accuse Hunter Biden of war crimes.
Demobrat
(10,217 posts)The irony escapes them.
ffr
(23,249 posts)For four years during GOP rule with this turd as POTUS, they squashed the constitution and politicized our government into TFG's personal Secret Service (SS).
If not for people turning out in such huge numbers to preserve our democracy, we'd long be on our way to a theocracy.
The Grand Illuminist
(1,906 posts)If he is found guilty and his appeal goes to SCOTUS, there may be a chance we will see an overturn equal to that of Bill Cosby which nobody will expect. Throwing caution to the wind.
DemocraticPatriot
(5,410 posts)mea culpas at the door....
Yes, indictments aren't convictions, but many here claimed that he would never be charged...
I'm sure you are happy to have been wrong on that.
speak easy
(12,421 posts)DemocraticPatriot
(5,410 posts)speak easy
(12,421 posts)'seems like it'
DemocraticPatriot
(5,410 posts)and your 'body clock'---
They all seem to have been mis-set to "impatience"...
"Billion days" LOL that sound like something we would have heard on FAUX NEWS,
except they are not covering the story....
YES, sooner would have been more satisfying to many of us here,
but it seems these things take more time,
when the prosecutors are intent on WINNING their case...
Somewhere on this site, I may have also voiced dissatisfaction about how long the investigations were taking, but now that charges are finally being brought-- I am not inclined to criticize the timeline.
Why are you ?
speak easy
(12,421 posts)'30 months and counting' etc etc
DemocraticPatriot
(5,410 posts)

speak easy
(12,421 posts)on you I guess
DemocraticPatriot
(5,410 posts)The irony here is that you have put me in the position of defending what might seem to have been the slowness of the Justice Department in bringing charges against Trump, when I was never a defender of them before...
I was hopeful, that is all... but I have previously criticized them also.
Anyway, it doesn't seem like a "billion days" to me---
It seems like almost yesterday when the MAGAts invaded the capitol-- to me
I am glad to see that justice is pursuing its rightful course, although some might say it moves too slowly...
Are you glad that Trump is finally charged? I have not seen you say such, as yet...
just bitch bitch bitch
Snooper9
(484 posts)Ursus minimus was still alive then LOL
Ursus minimus (the Auvergne bear) is an extinct species of bear, endemic to Europe during the Pliocene and Pleistocene, living from 5.3 to 1.8 Mya, existing for about 3.5 million years.
U. minimus appears to have given rise to Ursus etruscus.[1] The range of U. minimus was continental Europe, as far east as the Black Sea in Russia and as far south as Italy.
The skeleton of U. minimus was very similar to that of the larger Asian black bear. With the exception of the age of the bones, it is often difficult to distinguish the remains of U. minimus from those of modern Asian black bears.[2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursus_minimus
DemocraticPatriot
(5,410 posts)My calculator is broken....
a lot more than 2+ years, methinks...
I hope you are having a good night.... Goodnight comrade!
burrowowl
(18,423 posts)



orleans
(36,464 posts)Blue Owl
(57,521 posts)calimary
(88,007 posts)








AverageOldGuy
(3,036 posts). . . 45 pages long.
Hermit-The-Prog
(36,631 posts)Kennah
(14,465 posts)JohnSJ
(98,883 posts)BumRushDaShow
(161,259 posts)


SpankMe
(3,608 posts)Note that the charges are conspiracy to defraud the US, conspiracy/attempt to obstruct official proceedings. etc.
The charges DO NOT include seditious conspiracy or attempted sedition and the like.
sedition - noun - conduct or speech inciting people to rebel against the authority of a state or monarch
What Trump did was clearly sedition/seditious conspiracy. But Smith is treading carefully, even in his bold and decisive actions. This is extremely wise as sedition can get pretty subjective and a smart defense attorney could sway a jury into indecisiveness about whether or not sedition has occurred.
Defrauding and obstructing are more clear cut. And, even if smart people can debate whether Trump's actions rose to the level of sedition, they can't debate defraud and obstruct. Those are objectively true and provable.
I say that Jack Smith is the best prosecutor in America today. And he's younger than I am.
BumRushDaShow
(161,259 posts)mentioned that and used the same reasoning. By not broaching it now, it leaves it as an option later if need be, and keeps it from becoming a hung jury or acquittal on that charge due to a higher risk of confusion/lack of clarity regarding the evidence to definitively prove that charge.
Novara
(6,115 posts)Try cases on charges you know you can convict? Something like that?
Jack Smith did this in less than nine months on the job. Granted, the J6 Committee did a hell of a lot of prep work, but the man is an ultimate pro at this. He was such a good choice. If only Garland chose him earlier, we wouldn't be running up against the election clock.
I have a question I might already know the answer: if these lawyers are convicted, they lose their law licenses, every one of them, right? I assume that Jack Smith will indict them in a separate case (he needs to speed this along so it makes sense to split the cases). If they are convicted, these are serious felonies and they lose their law licenses, don't they?
BumRushDaShow
(161,259 posts)or at least consider trying to do so (after experiencing what happens when they don't).
And let me just say this - there is a lot of misinformation going around that suggests that "nothing" was going on in DOJ related to this aspect of the J6 investigation "until Jack Smith was appointed" (and I'm not even counting anything to do with the actual rioters). That is simply false.
What Jack Smith needed to do was to coordinate all the work that had already been done and was ongoing across multiple jurisdictions, and then bring some coherence to what would finally be presented for multiple grand juries. I.e., quite a bit of legwork was in the bag before he came in. In fact he was somewhat delayed because he had supposedly been involved in a cycling accident overseas and was recovering from surgery.
ETA as a note too - in January 2021 after Biden was inaugurated, the 93 U.S. Attorneys who would be the ones working on these J6 cases, including the Big Kahuna ones, were ALL 45 APPOINTEES. NONE were Biden appointees on January 20, 2021. There are still a pile who are in the process of being replaced and are going through confirmation hearings.
And remember, there was no "Jack Smith" yet when the search and seizure happened at Mar-a-Lago, which occurred in August of 2022 (Smith came on board in November 2022), and that was after they had already been working with NARA on the classified documents aspect once NARA did their referral early in 2022 because like all federal agencies, they have their own "process" that they go through before seeking DOJ's help to enforce their process through the courts (subpoenas, search warrants, seizures, injunctions, etc).
Also in the convoluted timeline, remember that the J6 Committee didn't actually come into being until July 1st 2001 and they didn't hold any hearings except one in 2021 covering the LEO response, with the next one not happening almost a year later on June 9, 2022.
I'm not pooh-poohing what the J6 Committee did because it was extraordinary and done by a group who were comprised of and advised by some of the best legal minds in the country, but who had a staff working behind the scenes able to put together a remarkable and historic narrative of what happened TO CONGRESS on January 6, 2021.
I.e., the "insurrection" and damage was inflicted ON CONGRESS, NOT on the Executive Branch, so it behooves that regardless of what the Executive does, they (Congress) must investigate what happened themselves! No one broke into the White House to trash it. They broken into the U.S. Capitol.
And with respect to your question about the lawyers - most of them are already undergoing Board hearings to revoke their licenses or at least impose sanctions and/or some kind of penalty, so by the time this case gets to trial, it will probably already be a done deal!
BlueWavePsych
(3,170 posts)
Hekate
(99,720 posts)