Thousands say 'No' to Brexit in colorful protest

[Night Watchman]

Source: CNN

By Elaine Ly and Angela Dewan, CNN
Updated 1351 GMT (2151 HKT) July 2, 2016

London (CNN) They simply won't take "Brexit" for an answer.

Tens of thousands of protesters angered by Britain's historic vote last week to leave the European Union marched down London's up-market Park Lane Saturday, many of them hoping that divorce from the bloc will never actually happen.

They say they've been cheated by a campaign deceit and false promises, chanting "We are the 48%, no more lies, no more hate." The Leave vote won 52% of the vote, with the remain side at 48%.
Organizers said around 50,000 people had joined the march by midday, and while the protest attracted all walks of life, millennials appeared to make up the bulk of the crowd.

"The votes were called but people were told lies," said 29-year-old Loveday Newman, wearing a T-shirt bearing a big red heart with "Europe" scrawled on it.

"I understand it's the outcome of a democratic vote but it's still a democracy, and being part of that I hope we can contest the outcome. I hope we remain. I am European. Britain is just stronger in," she said.


Read more: http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/02/europe/brexit-march-europe-london/index.html

---

That gives me a great idea! Why don't we restart the Florida recount? That way, we'll avoid the catastrophes of the Bush-Cheney Administration!

[Travis_0004]

1. Best 2 out of 3?

[yallerdawg]

4. Since Brexit was a legally non-binding referendum...

the British Parliament could make it a second vote required.

[MADem]

41. Don't the MPs have to vote them out? Not the electorate?

They could be "faithless parliamentarians" and go their own way--why not?

It's obvious that the REMAIN side did a bad job of campaigning, but this isn't something that can be fixed in 2 shakes of a lamb's tail. Once they are out, they are out for a generation.

If they don't like it, they need to push hard for a re-vote NOW before Article 50 is invoked....


Even if they can reverse course, the EU is gonna give them shit. Still, better to take the shit than give up on the freedom of movement, trade and other benefits of membership.

[Nye Bevan]

8. They voted "in" in 1975, "out" last month,

so one more could decide it.

[cstanleytech]

39. As yallerdawg and others have pointed out this vote was purely advisory and the government

isnt required to actually follow through on it.
Instead they should use this opportunity to investigate the problems the people who voted to leave the EU are angry and or upset about and perhaps try and makes things better but actually leaving the EU wont make things better.

[bluestateguy]

2. I still say the Leave will never actually happen

A lot of paper has to be pushed before the Article 50 can even be invoked.

[OnDoutside]

3. I'm with you on that, but there will have a be a huuuge amount of verbal gymnastics to go through !

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

21. I tend to agree, but this all reminds me of a bizarre short story I had to read in university

where all the hangmen in a dystopian island dictatorship refused to execute a political dissident and went to various extreme ends to make themselves unavailable.

No sane person would expose themselves to any responsibility for this process or it's outcomes.

[7962]

5. The vote is the vote. Deal with it. Everyone had their say.

And I'm not so sure the end of the world will occur simply because England leaves the EU. It didnt end BEFORE there was an EU either.
And the markets have already gained back most of the "sky is falling" losses as well.
We'll just have to see what happens

[LeftishBrit]

10. 'it didn't end before there was an EU'

It didn't end, but millions of people were killed in two horrible Europaean wars in the first half of the 20th century. The EU and the increased Europaean co-operation that it represents have helped to contribute to the maintenance of peace.

I don't think the world will end, but it would help if our leaders hadn't lied to us, and had had the slightest clue what to do next.

'The vote is the vote. Deal with it. Everyone had their say.'

That's, I believe, what Republicans were saying to you in 2000 and 2004. Yes, people had their say then too; but against a background of lies and distortions.

And one important group didn't have their say: long-term EU residents in this country. They are allowed to vote in local elections, but they weren't allowed to vote on an issue that crucially affects their lives.

[christx30]

11. All politicians lie all the time.

I seriously doubt a single politician has ever, even accidently, spoken one word of truth.
If we denied the results of an election because one side or the other lied, we'd never have elections again. It's up to the voters to see through the lies and vote for would be best for themselves and the country.

[al bupp]

20. Not a single politician, anywhere, ever, not even one word of truth?

Hyperbole, much?

[christx30]

22. If one of them told me the sky was blue,

I would go out and check for myself before I made any plans.

If you vote because of something a politician says, you can't complain if it doesn't turn out the way you're expecting.

[al bupp]

23. I get it, you're firmly underwhelmed by politicians

And I don't blame you in the least. As a rule, the profession has done precious little to change and staggeringly a lot to prove your point. I'm just saying that somewhere, sometime at least one told a truth, if not inadvertently, to suggest otherwise is probably mathematically impossible. But I'm spitting hairs, I know it.

[MADem]

42. Yep--the EU has been great for European cooperation and unity, to say nothing of opportunities

for joint ventures, travel, and trade.

I think it's a wonderful thing. The young people--who are the future--want it overwhelmingly. This is one of those situations where it's not just slowing down the process to reject a REMAIN strategy, it's changing the lives of the younger generations who have grown up with an EU passport. It's like putting them in prison, really.

[Moonwalk]

12. Does it have to be the end of the world to be a bad thing?

It won't be the end of the world. But it will be the end of the UK. They'll lose Scotland and Ireland, and the England that is left will be in a much diminished position in trade, etc. End of the world? Of course not. Bad for the youth of England. Yes. Does it have to be more than that--does it have to be the end of the world, to say that this would probably damage the future of England as a country?

As for "the vote is the vote." This wasn't like a U.S. state voted for a proposition and now it's law, end of story. As said, this was a non-binding vote, which leaves it up to parliament in the end. Parliament is made up of those voted in by the people to represent them. And, presumably, those who know a bit more about the consequences of this vote and what would be best for the country in the long run, rather than what they think might be best for them personally in the short term.

If the percentage of those who want to stay appear to have shifted (that is, representatives in parliament are getting messages to that effect), because some who voted to leave realize that they cast their votes based on lies (like money going to national heath rather than the EU), then if the representatives do what they think these people NOW want, and what they also think is good for the country in the long term...how is that not democratic? In other words, the vote was the vote...but it wasn't the VOTE. More people are going to have their say, more people are having their say.

It all depends on who ends up being prime minister, of course. As you say, we'll see what happens.

[7962]

13. I have my doubts about Scotland leaving. Oil prices being what they are especially.

The Scots get a lot from england and if they leave, they'll be on their own with their biggest revenue coming from oil. i dont think they want to leave that bad anyway. They just voted NO not even 2 years ago; and by a pretty wide margin.
I'd say the next one to want out of the EU could be Denmark & maybe even France.

My point is, when opponents are all screaming that everything will go to hell in a handbasket, I tend to believe most of it is fear mongering. And thats what we've been hearing ever since the vote. I believe England could use it to their advantage, but as you mention, it depends on WHO becomes the next leader and what their ambition will be.

[Jemmons]

17. No. Denmark is firmly in the EU for any foreseeable future.

There is no appetite for any "dexit" based on the current situation. 55% are against a new referendum and only 37 % would like to revisit the question.

And the appetite for a referendum is probably even less after people watch in disbelief as nearly all UK political leaders are eating crow after their bluff has been called.

It is real hard to spot any winners apart from EU member states (mainly the German - French alliance plus the EU bureaucracy) who are eager to see the UK end their halfhearted participation.

source:
http://nyheder.tv2.dk/politik/2016-06-24-ny-maaling-danskerne-oensker-ikke-afstemning-om-eu

[pampango]

24. You are probably right about Denmark and the EU but the far-right party wants a "Dexit" referendum.

EU-sceptic Danish party calls for referendum, PM says no

This sets up a potential battle with the Danish People’s Party, Rasmussen’s largest support party in parliament. DPP has previously said that if Brexit becomes reality, Denmark should hold its own EU referendum after the United Kingdom has formally negotiated a post-exit agreement with the union.

But Danish PM Lars Løkke Rasmussen, who called the referendum results “very sad […] for Europe and Denmark”, ruled out holding a referendum.

“We belong to the EU and I am not operating on [the belief] that we should have a referendum on that basic question,” Rasmussen said at a Friday morning press conference.

On Friday morning, DPP spokesman Kenneth Kristensen Berth congratulated Brits for their “brave […] and correct choice” but said a Danish referendum would be dependent on what happens next.

http://www.thelocal.dk/20160624/eu-sceptic-danish-party-calls-for-referendum-pm-says-no

If the far-right Danish People's Party is part of the ruling coalition, might they not have enough leverage to get a "Drexit" referendum?

[Jemmons]

36. The Danish Peoples Party is not far right in a traditional sense

Like Trump they find their voters in people who are too abrasive to be socialist but who are troubled by lack of prosperity and feel that immigration and or/trade (NAFTA/EU/TPP) are to blame.

My guess is that they would love to have a referendum if and only if they knew that they would not have to live with the consequences of a victory. A defeat would keep the DPP voters pet grievances alive and extend DPP power. For the same reasons, nobody else have any interest in accepting a referendum.

This mirrors the conundrum of the GOP: They have yet to find a way that they can incorporate the many Trump voters into a workable alliance. This is difficult because the trade agreements that Trump blames for nearly all problems are hugely important for the establishment GOP and their donors.

At some point someone in the GOP will figure out a way to peel off 20 % of "natural" Dem voters, but until then they will see their power slowly erode.

[pampango]

14. Agreed. Conservatives won democratically. Liberals lost democratically. Liberals need to move on.

The markets will do just fine under the 1%-dominated Conservative government that can now restructure the economy without out worrying about those 'cumbersome' EU regulations on labor and the environment. There are huge profits to be made which will drive the UK stock market higher in the long run.

Everyone in the running to be the next Conservative prime minister is a big-Leaver. The EU is pushing hard for the UK to get on with it; to tear the band-aid off quickly rather than to drag it out. Brexit is going to happen. There will be future elections when Labour can run against what Conservatives won last week but now is not the time.

The only way Brexit could be stalled is if the Conservatives were so overconfident that they called for a new general election, Labour won on a renewed Remain platform and the Conservative Leavers were whipped. It is highly unlikely that the Conservative Party will call for an election that is not required and that would follow a close referendum that has left liberals fired up.

Brexit will happen.

[Helen Borg]

16. Yeah, man up and shut up!!

[7962]

19. Well, there WILL be other elections.

If people dont like whats happening at that time, they'll make a change.

[RAFisher]

18. The GBP is at 31 year low and analysist think it will continue to drop

S&P downgraded their credit rating. And one main reason the FTSE is up is because the BoE will lower interest rates. Maybe the sky isn't falling but certainly did not return to pre-Brexit levels.

[Hissyspit]

31. Oh, please.

The vote never should have happened. It was a joke. There are reasons representative democracy was created.

California voted to take away civil rights from gay people in a referendum. You think people should have just gotten over that?

[Chakab]

34. "And the markets have already gained back most of the "sky is falling" losses as well."

I find all of these posts about how the market has already moved on from Brexit to be highly amusing. The real financial crisis won't hit until they formally start the process for separation from the EU. They haven't even triggered article 50 yet.

The pound is at a thirty-year low (and is still falling) and the UK has been downgraded based strictly on uncertainty about what is going to happen in the near future.

[WinkyDink]

6. Anti-Democracy agitators.

[LeftishBrit]

28. Did you think the same of people who protested against Bush's policies?

[NYC Liberal]

35. Or what about civil rights protests?

"The majority voted for segregation. How dare you protest the will of the majority!"

[pampango]

29. You're not serious? Liberals demonstrating in the streets are "anti-democratic agitators"?

That sounds like something from a right wing source.

[Hissyspit]

32. You are being facetious, right?

[TubbersUK]

44. Protest is undemocratic ? n/t

[pampango]

7. BBC: Marchers chanting "Fromage not Farage" and waving baguettes were among the crowds

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-36692990

[Nye Bevan]

9. Young people thought they could grow up with the right to live and work in 28 different countries.

Now they may not even have the automatic right to live in Scotland and Northern Ireland.

[FLPanhandle]

25. Pity they didn't bother to vote

Young people could have easily changed the outcome if they cared enough to get off their asses and just vote.

[NobodyHere]

37. I doubt the EU is going to shut the door on all Brits

[pampango]

40. Perhaps not but how many Europeans the UK shuts the door on may play into the decision.

The million plus Brits living and working in Europe will, I hope, not be turned into instant 'illegal immigrants'.

It is a mess.

[MADem]

43. They might charge them for visas, though, and fine them if they overstay....

It's terrible for kids who have families from this country and that, and friends from here and there.

I have family and friends scattered around the world, and it is a pain in the ass when you have to get permission to visit a country. So much easier to just get on the plane and go....

[pampango]

15. "We must not let rightwing, narrow-minded nationalism nor xenophobia define us. We are better than

that. I honestly believe the disinformation in this campaign has undermined our democracy. Decent British values are also the values of the European Union.”

Labour peer Michael Cashman told the crowd: “No more lies, no more hate. We need to uphold the values of democracy and inclusiveness which are at the heart of the EU and this country. We must not let rightwing, narrow-minded nationalism nor xenophobia define us. We are better than that. I honestly believe the disinformation in this campaign has undermined our democracy. Decent British values are also the values of the European Union.”

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2016/jul/02/brexit-news-live-thousands-march-for-europe-in-post-referendum-protest

[FLPanhandle]

26. They protest, but didn't vote

Hard to have much pity now if they won't even vote for their future.

[LeftishBrit]

27. What makes you think that?

Last edited Sun Jul 3, 2016, 03:30 AM - Edit history (1)

I am sure that the vast majority of the protesters did vote.

The turnout was lower among young people than the elderly (but a majority certainly voted - and voted by a large margin to Remain); but those who bothered to protest would in general also be those who bothered to vote.

I was not at the protest (maybe I should have been!) but I know several people who were, and it did not seem to be mainly people waking up only after the referendum had taken place.

[pampango]

33. I feel sorry for the liberals and the young, in particular, and don't blame them for protesting

a conservative victory. If other young and liberal Brits did not vote it is not the fault of the protesters.

[Nihil]

46. Hah! You used the word "think" in a question to a poster who doesn't know anything ...

... about the subject that he's blathering on about ... good joke LB!

[TubbersUK]

45. Didn't vote ? n/t

[TomCADem]

30. Brexit Vote Was Non-Binding...

...what is to keep the UK from simply cherry picking and halting the entry of brown people, while still accessing European markets? It is not like the EU will actually force them out.

[Jemmons]

38. Your suggestion that the UK can cherrypick which rules to follow and which to ignore is just

wishful thinking:

1. The freedom of movement of labor and capital is central to the EU.
2. There are more EU enthusiastic countries that are happy to see the UK end their reluctant participation.
3. The Brits are all ready being pushed out of powerfull positions in the EU system.
4. There is a certain appetite to scare all other countries that are flirting with the thought of leaving or renegotiating the treaties.
5. Brexit makes faster integration possible for the rest of the EU.
6. Germany would probably like to see Frankfurt become the financial hub of Europe as London will have trouble maintaining that position while not being in the EU.
7. If the UK was somehow to remain in spite of the vote, they would suffer a huge loss of credibility as a partner in the union.